Future mainline uses for compliant HST/LHCS Mk3 sets?

[Iskra]

ROMIC have unveiled a charter HST set using upto 9 ex-XC Mk3 trailers and are aiming for a fleet of 5 HST sets eventually. These are using sliding door Mk3’s, so comply with current regulations.

They are apparently to be used for charters/railtours, but do we think they could be used to cover for TOC rolling stock shortages as well?

WCRC are also developing compliant HST sets, what work will these end up on?

 

[Harpo]

Interesting given how difficult Chiltern tell us the Mk3 spares position is. More Christmas trees? Carnforth looking even more like Woodhams?

 

[Iskra]

Interesting given how difficult Chiltern tell us the Mk3 spares position is. More Christmas trees? Carnforth looking even more like Woodhams?

I wonder if someone will want Chiltern’s Loco-hauled Mk3’s too? You’d think they’d be very desirable in the charter market if spares can be found from other Mk3’s?

 

[JonathanH]

You’d think they’d be very desirable in the charter market if spares can be found from other Mk3’s?

I don't think the market is large enough for a lot more sets of rolling stock, particularly 'sealed' stock.

 

[Iskra]

I don't think the market is large enough for a lot more sets of rolling stock, particularly 'sealed' stock.

I agree we’re reaching a point of too much supply generally in terms of Charter Stock. But, you’d think that with the way things are going in terms of safety regulations, sealed stock may become the only way that non-steam railtours may be allowed to continue eventually. If that does happen, Loco Hauled Mk3’s are more flexible in terms of traction than the HST sets.

 

[JonathanH]

But, you’d think that with the way things are going in terms of safety regulations, sealed stock may become the only way that non-steam railtours may be allowed to continue

That is right, although there is no obvious reason why steam railtours should have an exemption if that point was reached. However, a HST set isn't much use for a steam railtour.

 

[Iskra]

That is right, although there is no obvious reason why steam railtours should have an exemption if that point was reached. However, a HST set isn't much use for a steam railtour.

Can steam loco’s work with Mk3’s, or would they just need a diesel on the back to provide power to the stock?

 

[JonathanH]

Can steam loco’s work with Mk3’s, or would they just need a diesel on the back to provide power to the stock?

Yes, so long as they are fitted with air brakes, in the same way all current tours operated by West Coast Railways operate with later build Mark 2s. Some form of generator van (ie a locomotive) is needed to provide ETS for the air conditioning.

 

[Harpo]

Currently, there’s no requirement for sealed mainline stock, just CDL and safe window openings.

Steam tours generally are heading the way of most charter operations, targetting big spenders seeking an all-day-restaurant and experiencing an ‘old’ (i.e. comfortable) train to see somewhere nice. Aircons with a shoving ‘box on the back’ makes no difference to them.

Enthusiasts steam operations rest almost entirely with ‘Vintage’ and its unassisted steam operations with non air-con stock.

 

[BlueLeanie]

They are apparently to be used for charters/railtours, but do we think they could be used to cover for TOC rolling stock shortages as well?

I suspect that if there is a significant issue with 8XX series stock, contributors to this forum would be demanding that the 5 sets are immediately leased by GBR and pressed into service.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

Wonder which TOC ?

 

[sad1e]

I suspect that if there is a significant issue with 8XX series stock, contributors to this forum would be demanding that the 5 sets are immediately leased by GBR and pressed into service.

I would suspect GBR would be against it , One of the main reasons Non slam door mk3's were taken out of service in the first place was due to PRM compliance issues (Well apart from Chiltern because they cashed out for new bathrooms ).

 

[Halish Railway]

HSTs seem like the sort of traction that would be uniquely well suited for Football/sports charters and additional Project Rio style services that could run during major route closures when there is a shortage of rolling stock that can run on unelectrified routes.

Whether that would provide enough business to make this venture viable remains to be seen.

 

[The Planner]

HSTs seem like the sort of traction that would be uniquely well suited for Football/sports charters and additional Project Rio style services that could run during major route closures when there is a shortage of rolling stock that can run on unelectrified routes.

Whether that would provide enough business to make this venture viable remains to be seen.

Big blocks are sporadic though, so unless they are happy for them to be sat around doing nothing I can't see huge amounts of work for them. There are also hoops to jump about ticketing for those types of services that GBR may remove.

 

[43096]

I would suspect GBR would be against it , One of the main reasons Non slam door mk3's were taken out of service in the first place was due to PRM compliance issues (Well apart from Chiltern because they cashed out for new bathrooms ).

Do you mean non-slam door? Because non-slam door Mark 3s are the sliding door version, that are PRM compliant.

 

[sad1e]

Do you mean non-slam door? Because non-slam door Mark 3s are the sliding door version, that are PRM compliant.

Didn't EMR convert their slam Door HST sets to sliding doors then still have them taken out of service due to PRM ?

 

[43096]

Didn't EMR convert their slam Door HST sets to sliding doors then still have them taken out of service due to PRM ?

No. EMR didn't convert any of their sets to sliding door.

 

[renegademaster]

Can steam loco’s work with Mk3’s, or would they just need a diesel on the back to provide power to the stock?

Flying Scotsman has a tour coming up with Eastern Rail Services Mk3s in December

 

[Yorkshire09876]

Didn't EMR convert their slam Door HST sets to sliding doors then still have them taken out of service due to PRM ?

No. None of the HST sets used by EMR (the ex-EMT or the ex-LNER ones) were fitted with sliding doors.

 

[hexagon789]

Didn't EMR convert their slam Door HST sets to sliding doors then still have them taken out of service due to PRM ?

No, even the ex-GC and LNER sets they used still had slam doors.

Only GWR and ScotRail short-sets, plus XC sets were fitted with sliding doors.

 

[sad1e]

No, even the ex-GC and LNER sets they used still had slam doors.

Only GWR and ScotRail short-sets, plus XC sets were fitted with sliding doors.

I must have got something mixed up with the Chiltern and LNER sets then, i must have been thinking about LNER MK4s not MK3's

 

[hexagon789]

I must have got something mixed up with the Chiltern and LNER sets then, i must have been thinking about LNER MK4s not MK3's

Easily done

 

[Colby James]

I do hear ROMIC are going to also not only assist in Overseas or other company selling but also preservation of HST's as well.

I hope they can also help assist save a ScotRail HST set for Bo'ness and Kinnell Railway, the ones I vividly imagined being saved are 43003 which is 43002's sister and 43127 and 3 MK3 power cars.

And I hope they can spare one Castle Set for preservation.

 

[Iskra]

The issue with HST’s on preserved railways is probably how much space they take up.

 

[adc82140]

Now that the first Chiltern Mk3 set is imminently being towed to store, what does the future hold for them? I doubt any regular TOCs are interested, let't face it they are getting rather long I the tooth, but they would make decent charter rakes....

 

[D365]

… but they would make decent charter rakes....

Not without a significant money & time investment. The Chiltern Mk3s in particular are reportedly suffering with severe bodyshell corrosion.

 

[JohnofWessex]

My impression of the GWR HST's in their final years was that the carriage ends were clearly the worse for wear, something I believe Scotrail discovered

 

[ScottGallagher]

There are GWR green HST /mk3 coaches at Carnforth that have the electric doors, didnt see ppwer cars though.

 

[43096]

There are GWR green HST /mk3 coaches at Carnforth that have the electric doors, didnt see ppwer cars though.

There are five power cars there, too.

 

[Harpo]

My impression of the GWR HST's in their final years was that the carriage ends were clearly the worse for wear, something I believe Scotrail discovered

Going full circle with the painfully slow rehabilitation of the quarter century old fleet replacing GWR’s final HSTs.