31258 flame cut cab side.

[Ashley Hill]

About 25 years ago I purchased a flamecut cab side numberplate from 31258 for £5. The loco was renumbered to 31434 in 1984. Why would an un-renumbered cab side still exist so long after re-numbering?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Interesting... did 31 258 at any time before renumbering have a cab replacement or anything like that?

I have some pictures of 31 434 from different angles showing different cab sides... no sign of the original number being carried, although I don't actually have all four corners pictured... but I don't remember it carrying two different numbers at the time.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Very nice photos. Were Diesel cabsides a thing in the early 80s? Many were still mourning the loss is steam at the time and I can’t imagine a scrappie gently cutting out a random 31 number. I am aware of various warship and electro-diesel cabsides that have appeared in recent years.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I was wondering at what point in the locos history was there an excuse to produce the flame cut. Had it been in an accident? Surely if saved during scrapping it would have been 31434.

 

[pdeaves]

A thought, possibly of low plausibility. If the new number wasn't in exactly the same place as the old one, could a top layer of paint have been removed to reveal the old number? That would give an extra opportunity for a little more income from the enthusiast market from the same loco.

 

[43096]

I was wondering at what point in the locos history was there an excuse to produce the flame cut. Had it been in an accident? Surely if saved during scrapping it would have been 31434.

At a guess when the loco went through its Heavy General overhaul and ETH conversion at Doncaster Works. There was some substantial bodywork re-panelling done during the HGR which likely saw substantial parts cut out and replaced.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Very nice photos. Were Diesel cabsides a thing in the early 80s? Many were still mourning the loss is steam at the time and I can’t imagine a scrappie gently cutting out a random 31 number. I am aware of various warship and electro-diesel cabsides that have appeared in recent years.

With the very straight edges, I suspect it's been cut out in a metal press rather than flame cut as such - that would support the theory of a panel replacement during conversion to 31/4 status.

Certainly virtually every non-preserved Deltic had the data panels recovered, and that was early 1980s... I wonder if the Deltics kick started the trend? Their high popularity would have meant good prices for what is basically just a square of metal, which might have sparked interest generally.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

About 25 years ago I purchased a flamecut cab side numberplate from 31258 for £5. The loco was renumbered to 31434 in 1984. Why would an un-renumbered cab side still exist so long after re-numbering?

The answer is in your post I wouldn't mind betting, sort of - 'flame cut' - according to the Harris Allocation History series, 31258 suffered extensive fire damage 3/83, and although repaired and reinstated 10/83 presumably still carrying the same number, quite possible the wider panel including your section was damaged to the point a complete new panel was fabricated. Be interesting if anyone can find an image of the loco in fire damaged condition. It seemingly languished with said damage from 3/83 until 9/83, presumably at its home depot (BR) before entering works.

 

[Ashley Hill]

The answer is in your post I wouldn't mind betting, sort of - 'flame cut' - according to the Harris Allocation History series, 31258 suffered extensive fire damage 3/83, and although repaired and reinstated 10/83 presumably still carrying the same number, quite possible the wider panel including your section was damaged to the point a complete new panel was fabricated. Be interesting if anyone can find an image of the loco in fire damaged condition. It seemingly languished with said damage from 3/83 until 9/83, presumably at its home depot (BR) before entering works.

Amazing information, thank you. I tried looking for its history but perhaps gave up too easily.

 

[Magdalia]

31258 suffered extensive fire damage 3/83, and although repaired and reinstated 10/83 presumably still carrying the same number, quite possible the wider panel including your section was damaged to the point a complete new panel was fabricated. Be interesting if anyone can find an image of the loco in fire damaged condition. It seemingly languished with said damage from 3/83 until 9/83, presumably at its home depot (BR) before entering works.

31258 had already arrived on Doncaster Works by 20/03/83 see here:

31258 Doncaster Works 20-3-83

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31258 Doncaster Works 20-3-83

31258 remained on Doncaster Works until being released as 31434 in February 1984.

What happened in October 1983 was the approval for 31258 to be included in the HGO programme.

Class 31 HGO included major bodyshell renewal and removal of the waistband.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Class 31 HGO included major bodyshell renewal and removal of the waistband.

The likely source of my cabside then. This explains why it survived with this number. It’s nice to know that workshop staff were thinking of the enthusiast market in the 80s.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

31258 had already arrived on Doncaster Works by 20/03/83 see here:

31258 remained on Doncaster Works until being released as 31434 in February 1984.

What happened in October 1983 was the approval for 31258 to be included in the HGO programme.

Interesting detail. The image appears to show fire damage at No 1 end (nearest end in view) so initially suggests the cut out piece with number may have come from that (No 1 end) cab, the other side as viewed perhaps (the side closest to the 08)?

BUT, the info in the Harris work suggests it was reinstated to IM in 10/83 (hence my comments previously about re-entering service with running number 31258), but if in reality it wasn't released from Donny until 2/84 as 31434, then the flame cut section may have come from either No 1 or No 2 end cabs. More likely No 1 end given the fire damage, but if there was tin worm in No 2 end cab as well, who knows?

A lesson there in relation to relying on one printed source alone, perhaps?

 

[Big Jumby 74]

It’s nice to know that workshop staff were thinking of the enthusiast market in the 80s.

More likely someone in the Management at the plant realised there may be a profit to be made (for BR) from the enthusiast market.

 

[43096]

Interesting detail. The image appears to show fire damage at No 1 end (nearest end in view) so initially suggests the cut out piece with number may have come from that (No 1 end) cab, the other side as viewed perhaps (the side closest to the 08)?

BUT, the info in the Harris work suggests it was reinstated to IM in 10/83 (hence my comments previously about re-entering service with running number 31258), but if in reality it wasn't released from Donny until 2/84 as 31434, then the flame cut section may have come from either No 1 or No 2 end cabs. More likely No 1 end given the fire damage, but if there was tin worm in No 2 end cab as well, who knows?

See above for comments by myself and others about the amount of work done to Class 31 bodyshells during their Heavy Generals at Doncaster.

There is an obvious reason and it is being ignored!

 

[Magdalia]

BUT, the info in the Harris work suggests it was reinstated to IM in 10/83 (hence my comments previously about re-entering service with running number 31258), but if in reality it wasn't released from Donny until 2/84 as 31434

Harris is mostly a regurgitation of what was listed in the BR stock changes obtained from secondary sources.

If you look at what Harris says about 31425-430 and 31432 you will see that 31434 is not the only example of a stored loco being reinstated and reallocated to Immingham when HGO started not when the locos returned to traffic.

A loco being reinstated and a loco re-entering service are not the same thing.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

See above for comments by myself and others about the amount of work done to Class 31 bodyshells during their Heavy Generals at Doncaster.

There is an obvious reason and it is being ignored!

Not ignored deliberately or otherwise. Just adding comments in relation to (any) info I have access to (Harris volumes specifically in this case) and the image supplied above, combined with my own thoughts. No offence intended to any, only a desire to assist the OP if at all possible.