UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[Bald Rick]

I find the sales figures interesting, especially the top 10 cars.

The new cars I am seeing more of are Kia EV3s, VW ID7s and Minis (all types). I’ve probably seen 30-40 75 plate cars now, and all but 3 have been full EVs.

 

[vjm1975]

I work for a company that manufactures fuel tanks for petrol cars. I would say now at least 50% of cars on our works car park are now electric. This time last year that would have been pretty much 0.

My next car when I will change, most likely next year will be electric most likely too. Not brand new mind. I usually always buy a car around 18 months to 2 years old.

 

[bspahh]

I find the sales figures interesting, especially the top 10 cars.

The new cars I am seeing more of are Kia EV3s, VW ID7s and Minis (all types). I’ve probably seen 30-40 75 plate cars now, and all but 3 have been full EVs.

With a Kia EV3 the models are the Air with a small and big battery, the GT Line and GT Line S. Kia have discounted the Air models by £3750, to match the government's electric car grant.

A second factor is that cars with a list price over £40k pay £2000 extra in road fund duty over the first 5 years if they were registered in April 2025 or later. That hits every GT Line S, and GT Line models with optional paint (which is most of them).

Model	List Price	Auto Trader "New"	Auto Trader <100 miles	Auto Trader <5000 miles
EV3 Air, 58.3kWh	£32,995	£28,880	£28,889	£28,889
EV3 Air, 81.4kWh	£35,995	£31,880	£31,749	£28,999
EV3 GT Line 81.4kWh	£39,495	£35,995	£32,789	£31,450
EV3 GT Line S 81.4kWh	£42,995	£39,400	£36,099 now but there was one for £35k last week	£32,280

It means the £10k difference in list price from the base to top model turns into £5k difference within 5000 miles (including the tax).

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I work for a company that manufactures fuel tanks for petrol cars. I would say now at least 50% of cars on our works car park are now electric. This time last year that would have been pretty much 0.

My next car when I will change, most likely next year will be electric most likely too. Not brand new mind. I usually always buy a car around 18 months to 2 years old.

Are you not worried for the future of your employment with the trend towards EVs?

A genuine question, I'm not trying to be facetious despite my EV scepticism on this thread!

 

[GusB]

I was not making a point, I was asking a question. What made you think I was making a point?

@jon0844 has explained above in post 5603. Usually whenever there's a vehicle fire there is an automatic assumption that it's an EV. I realise you were asking a question, but it was a rather loaded question!

 

[jon0844]

Are you not worried for the future of your employment with the trend towards EVs?

A genuine question, I'm not trying to be facetious despite my EV scepticism on this thread!

I would hope the company is already looking at how it can diversify to manufacture something that will be needed on EVs.

The jobs of tomorrow will be around the construction, maintenance and recycling/repurposing of EVs and batteries. People doing work around ICE today should have a heap of transferrable skills to transition.

 

[thejuggler]

It also has 6000+ petrol, almost 3000 diesel and well over 7000 hybrids advertised as brand new, some with huge discounts.

This has always been the case.

30-40% discount?

 

[Snow1964]

The SMMT sales data for September also includes a list by brand, and compared to last year the big increases are manufactures with new electric cars

BYD +880.01%
Alpine +843.9%
Omoda +299.91%
Alfa Romeo +247.06%
Porsche +77.3%
GWM +68.1%
MG +62.71%

UK New Car Registration Data - Latest Figures & Statistics | SMMT

Discover the latest UK car registration data: new car registration statistics, the number of cars in the UK, and more.

www.smmt.co.uk

 

[cactustwirly]

The SMMT sales data for September also includes a list by brand, and compared to last year the big increases are manufactures with new electric cars

BYD +880.01%
Alpine +843.9%
Omoda +299.91%
Alfa Romeo +247.06%
Porsche +77.3%
GWM +68.1%
MG +62.71%

UK New Car Registration Data - Latest Figures & Statistics | SMMT

Discover the latest UK car registration data: new car registration statistics, the number of cars in the UK, and more.

www.smmt.co.uk

Well that clearly shows the UK needs to put stronger tariffs on Chinese EVs.
We cannot afford to let them takeover the market

 

[Harpers Tate]

Well that clearly shows the UK needs to put stronger tariffs on Chinese EVs.

That is one interpretation. Another is that the more local manufacturers need to put way more effort into making cars that people want to buy at prices people want to pay.

Much as we might wish to - we can't escape from Chinese influence. Take a look at the place of manufacture of the device/s you used to post here. It's going to take way, way more than taxing cars to get anywhere.

 

[Noddy]

Well that clearly shows the UK needs to put stronger tariffs on Chinese EVs.
We cannot afford to let them takeover the market

Three of top 5 in that list are European.

 

[Mawkie]

Well that clearly shows the UK needs to put stronger tariffs on Chinese EVs.
We cannot afford to let them takeover the market

Oh, it's like I'm back in the 1970s talking about Datsuns..

Three of them are already built in the EU.
Alpine
Alfa Romeo
Porsche

Two are not currently built in the EU (but planning factories):

BYD (currently building a factory in Hungary)
Omoda (planned for Spain)

And two have no announced plans.
GWM
MG

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well that clearly shows the UK needs to put stronger tariffs on Chinese EVs.
We cannot afford to let them takeover the market

Or maybe the likes of Stellantis could stop making rubbish cars and charging far too much for them? I'm sorry but forty grand is not a reasonable price for a small family SUV, electric or otherwise. It's blatant profiteering. Forty grand is into the premium car territory. By contrast, the Chinese companies are largely getting the price about right and they're largely good cars too - the MG4 for instance is getting absolutely rave reviews. I'll be honest, apart from the boot being a bit on the small side I'm very tempted by one.

The Skoda and Dacia brands seem to be the only European ones now charging anything like reasonable prices, and Skoda is still on the pricey side of the mix, while Dacias largely feel cheap (though I heard good things about their newest SUV).

 

[trebor79]

Well that clearly shows the UK needs to put stronger tariffs on Chinese EVs.
We cannot afford to let them takeover the market

Nonsense! We can't afford for them not to produce high quality a d reasonably priced EVs so that we don't have to keep breathing exhaust fumes.
China makes everything else, why not cars?

Or maybe the likes of Stellantis could stop making rubbish cars and charging far too much for them? I'm sorry but forty grand is not a reasonable price for a small family SUV, electric or otherwise.

Exactly.

 

[cactustwirly]

Nonsense! We can't afford for them not to produce high quality a d reasonably priced EVs so that we don't have to keep breathing exhaust fumes.
China makes everything else, why not cars?

Exactly.

Because car manufacturing supports 100,000s jobs across Europe.
Would be a disaster if Volkswagen, JLR, Nissan etc closed plants

We would be dependent on an authoritarian communist regime? That's not a good thing

 

[trebor79]

Because car manufacturing supports 100,000s jobs across Europe.
Would be a disaster if Volkswagen, JLR, Nissan etc closed plants

So? Millions of people used to be employed mining coal, bashing bits of metal, weaving cloth. Those jobs are all gone, but guess what, people have better more fulfilling jobs in their place.

We would be dependent on an authoritarian communist regime? That's not a good thing

Meh. Why?
I don't get this constant desire to try to tell other societies how they should organise and govern themselves. That's for them. It doesn't mean we can trade with them or be friendly with them.

They are all expensive. As a student I can't afford an electric car not even a second hand Prius. I'm surprised that Tesla isn't on the list. Do you own an electric car @Snow1964 ?

Natalia

Newsflash, student can't afford to buy a brand new car.

 

[Bald Rick]

I’m seeing a lot of VW ID7s, and now I see why.

Big car, decent range (350miles+) and you can get year old examples with a few thousand miles on them for the list price of a new Golf. It will be interesting to see their depreciation curve.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because car manufacturing supports 100,000s jobs across Europe.
Would be a disaster if Volkswagen, JLR, Nissan etc closed plants

It would be bad, but it would be wholly their fault. They need to up their game to compete, not just whine and wait for a bit of protectionism.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Oct 2025 ==

Newsflash, student can't afford to buy a brand new car.

Students couldn't generally afford any car when I was one. Get a bicycle!

 

[cactustwirly]

It would be bad, but it would be wholly their fault. They need to up their game to compete, not just whine and wait for a bit of protectionism.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Oct 2025 ==



Students couldn't generally afford any car when I was one. Get a bicycle!

It's not a level playing field with state backed price dumping

BMW, Polestar etc are building EVs that are well received. Pity Polestar build them in China instead of Gothenburg

Same is happening with buses, ADL are closing the Falkirk plant because everyone is buying Chinese crap Yutongs etc

 

[Energy]

Same is happening with buses, ADL are closing the Falkirk plant because everyone is buying Chinese crap Yutongs etc

Yutong's success is due to ADL's rattles and failure to deliver the E200EV on time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not a level playing field with state backed price dumping

Regardless, the pricing of European cars is just too high. They need to find a way to get them down. The prices are not reasonable, they have shot up since COVID before which the prices of European cars were similar to Chinese ones now. Yes, there's been inflation, but not to that extent.

They are just ripping people off, largely by hiding high prices behind PCPs where you are only financing depreciation, in effect. Only the Chinese manufacturers (plus the Dacia and Skoda brands, and only some models of the latter) represent value purchased in full.

BMW, Polestar etc are building EVs that are well received. Pity Polestar build them in China instead of Gothenburg

Those willing/able to afford premium cars do seem to be a bit more price-flexible, I suppose. But a new Vauxhall Astra (average family hatch) is no longer affordable, other than by way of PCP (at the end of which you own nothing), to an average family. Whereas an MG4 is. What would you buy?

Same is happening with buses, ADL are closing the Falkirk plant because everyone is buying Chinese crap Yutongs etc

Yutong's success is due to ADL's rattles and failure to deliver the E200EV on time.

British built buses are by and large rattly junk and have been for the last 20 years or so. By contrast the Chinese vehicles seem to be of the level of quality of the likes of the Mercedes Citaro but at a budget price. Why wouldn't you? I owe no allegiance to Alexander Dennis and their low quality rattletraps.

British Leyland built junk and died as a result. British industry isn't good at adapting and competing, and so it dies. Stellantis appears to be following this line.

 

[Mawkie]

It's not a level playing field with state backed price dumping

BMW, Polestar etc are building EVs that are well received. Pity Polestar build them in China instead of Gothenburg

Same is happening with buses, ADL are closing the Falkirk plant because everyone is buying Chinese crap Yutongs etc

I suppose we could support BMW by buying a Mini E - oh sorry it's built in China as part of a deal between BMW and Great Wall Motors.

Or the Volvo EX30 - sorry, Volvo has been owned by Geely since 2010,built in China, moving to Belgium manufacture next year.

We could look at the new Lotus Eletre - sorry, owned by the Chinese and Malaysians, built in Wuhan.

Support America by buying a Tesla Model 3 - nope, Giga Shanghai is the world's largest electric car factory with a manufacturing capacity exceeding 950,000 and has better quality control than the US Giga Freemont.

What about the Dacia Spring, favourite of the economy drivers and famously Romanian - nope, assembled at the eGT New Energy Automotive plant in Shiyan, Hubei province.

The point is, in a multi-national world, it's daft to try and bring in these weird protectionist arguments. Mercedes, BMW, and especially VW, went to China and set up production facilities with Chinese manufacturers. They literally gave the Chinese the tools and knowledge they needed to produce cars.

Unfortunately for the Germans, they didn't anticipate how flexible the Chinese had become and frankly the Chinese just got better and more advanced than the western manufacturers.

 

[Harpers Tate]

By a roundabout route, many Chinese cars are being "taxed" (not the right term) by GBP3500 per car - because they all (I think) fall outwith the government's definition of an eligible vehicle for the GBP3500 Electric Car Grant. Another way of putting it is that the UK Government is offering a "state-backed subsidy" to selected cars.

 

[E27007]

It would be bad, but it would be wholly their fault. They need to up their game to compete, not just whine and wait for a bit

For European car makers, the benchmark is Toyota , a successful company who may manufacture 10 million cars per annum with 300,000 employees, the leading European car maker VW have 650,000 employees for the same production level, VW improve "their game" yet cannot even approach the competitive level of Toyota, so what are the prospects of European car makers competing with the Chinese?

 

[Mawkie]

By a roundabout route, many Chinese cars are being "taxed" (not the right term) by GBP3500 per car - because they all (I think) fall outwith the government's definition of an eligible vehicle for the GBP3500 Electric Car Grant. Another way of putting it is that the UK Government is offering a "state-backed subsidy" to selected cars.

Quite.

However, in response to the UK government's subsidies, MG immediately offered their own £1500 "EV car grant".

Leapmotor is offering £3750 on some models with their own "Leap Grant".

Great Wall Motors is offering £3750 off the Ora 3 with its own "Green Grant".

These companies are dynamic enough that they offered these discounts immediately after UK government announced the grant scheme - and before any manufacturer even understood what was involved in the rather complex process of registering for the grant.

Of course, these discounts don't cost the UK tax payer £650m, but do make electric cars more affordable for everyone.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Oct 2025 ==

For European car makers, the benchmark is Toyota , a successful company who may manufacture 10 million cars per annum with 300,000 employees, the leading European car maker VW have 650,000 employees for the same production level, VW improve "their game" yet cannot even approach the competitive level of Toyota, so what are the prospects of European car makers competing with the Chinese?

It will be hard, change always is, but the legacy car manufacturers traditionally drove down costs by outsourcing, and forcing 'just in time' delivery and production methods on suppliers.

Have a Google for "BYD vertical integration" and you will astonished at how much of a change vertical integration brings to their production systems and bottom line - they manufacture everything from panels, to batteries, to semiconductors, to switches and so on. They own and operate their own lithium mine. They operate their own logistics via the world's largest cargo ships, one of which has a 9200 vehicle capacity.

VW hoped to copy this kind of vertical integration and failed when they tried to create their software in-house with the awful CARIAD system, which ultimately delayed production and delivery of important models. The trouble was that each of the VW Group constituent parts didn't want to surrender power (VW, Audi, Porsche). They also continued to outsource the actual coding, relying on one company to integrate radars, hoping that would talk to an ecu made by another company, who received camera inputs from another company.

It cost VW Group dearly - financially and reputationally (€14 billion at last count). So much so they effectively disbanded CARIAD and merged with Rivian and wait for it... Xpeng.

 

[jon0844]

Incumbent companies suddenly falling behind is surprisingly common. Just look at the tech industry and what happened to Nokia, BlackBerry, Palm, Symbian and so many more.

Complacency often plays a big part too. If you're number one then surely you're invincible?

Tesla only seems able to get away with it because investors and banks can't afford for stock to plummet so keep playing along.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I absolutely agree with recent posts regarding complacency of "legacy" European marques.

A genuine question to those of you far more knowledgeable than I: do you think a similar situation will play out with UK's EV charging infrastructure and consumer charging services? Or, are all the current charging "players" already on the front foot?

 

[bspahh]

A genuine question to those of you far more knowledgeable than I: do you think a similar situation will play out with UK's EV charging infrastructure and consumer charging services? Or, are all the current charging "players" already on the front foot?

Autocar has a story about increased standing charges for running a fast charging hub:

The growth of the UK’s EV charging network could be stunted by significant and unexpected cost hikes that mean many charging hubs aren’t currently turning a profit.

Ian Johnston, CEO of charger operator Osprey, told Autocar that “we are nowhere near profitability” because of skyrocketing electric grid costs.

Dora Clarke, Osprey’s head of external affairs, said the standing charge paid by the company for a “typical” hub in the Midlands with eight chargers has increased over the past three years from £99 per year to more than £8600. Osprey operates 56 such hubs nationally.

 

[Tetchytyke]

By contrast the Chinese vehicles seem to be of the level of quality of the likes of the Mercedes Citaro but at a budget price

Just been on the SL4, which is operated by BYD electric double deckers. Rattled the whole way and the stop bell rang every 20 seconds all the way from Canary Wharf to Blackheath.

The Wright Electroliner I was on yesterday, on the other hand. That was a nice bus.

 

[cactustwirly]

Just been on the SL4, which is operated by BYD electric double deckers. Rattled the whole way and the stop bell rang every 20 seconds all the way from Canary Wharf to Blackheath.

The Wright Electroliner I was on yesterday, on the other hand. That was a nice bus.

Wrights have always been nice buses