Concepts and related naming that differ between Germany's railways and the UK

[Bletchleyite]

It's generally somewhere central-ish, but isn't always the most central, there are often more central S-Bahn stations or similar (in that case often but not always suffixed Mitte). Something like Llandudno Jn wouldn't be a Hbf, but Exeter St Davids or Wrexham General definitely would.

Potentially yes as it is (was originally) an operational term rather than a marketing one. Schwerin has Hbf and Mitte (as does Koblenz). Bingen Hbf is on the wrong side of the river for the town - while Berlin Hbf, whichever one is being referred to, was never the closest to the city centre. Wittlich Hbf to Wittlich is also quite a walk.
And as for Solingen….

In general, though, most places with a Hbf will, over the years have expanded such that any distance from the old centre doesn’t show. It’s a very different case 1 level down, where there are many examples of small towns with a “Bahnhof” inconveniently positioned on the edge (where the freight customers are) and a new platform suffixed “Mitte” or “Ort” where the passengers actually want to go. Sometimes thus results in a fully functioning “Bahnhof” having no passenger calls at all (illustrating the fact that “Bahnhof” and “railway station” are not literal translations of each other.)

I guess "Bahnhof" is railway yard, literally. This makes some sense as you tend to find European railways tend to combine the purpose of depots and stations, with stations often having extensive sidings and depot functions with lots of rolling stock lying around, whereas in the UK depots almost always lie outside stations (even ones that are quite near them e.g. Kirkdale, Bletchley and Northampton are clearly on separate sites from the actual station).

Stations being outside town aren't unusual in the UK though. The Midland seems quite famous for it, while Chester is a bit of a walk too. I guess in the likes of Germany this is more likely as the railway came later.

 

[The Pelican]

My favourite pattern of German railway history- repeated at Hamburg, Dresden, eventually in Berlin etc- is the merging of several substantial railway terminals into a single big Hauptbahnhof station, which nonetheless manages to be even more central than most of the terminals were. Not as common in the UK because the companies remained private for longer, and it was more common for each of several British companies to have their own seperate routes between the same places.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My favourite pattern of German railway history- repeated at Hamburg, Dresden, eventually in Berlin etc- is the merging of several substantial railway terminals into a single big Hauptbahnhof station, which nonetheless manages to be even more central than most of the terminals were. Not as common in the UK because the companies remained private for longer, and it was more common for each of several British companies to have their own seperate routes between the same places.

I don't know the history, but did many of these perhaps come into being after World War 2, during which we provided some assistance with the requisite demolition?

 

[The Pelican]

I don't know the history, but did many of these perhaps come into being after World War 2, during which we provided some assistance with the requisite demolition?

The Dresen and Hamburg examples were 19th and early 20th century respectively- I think it must have been a combination of freight movements between railways, passenger convenience and military purposes, which were a much more important railway function in a continental country, and sometimes extended to funding things like extra tracks on important corridors. The Berlin one mostly came about post-reunification, after Zoo had been the Western rail hub and Ostbahnhof the Eastern one, and was designed to accomodate a large increase in rail capacity by building a station which both north-south and east-west long distance trains could use.

 

[The exile]

I don't know the history, but did many of these perhaps come into being after World War 2, during which we provided some assistance with the requisite demolition?

Surprisingly not - other than Berlin where political geography meant that most of the old (bombed) termini had lost their purpose and the removal of the wall left a convenient gap in which to put a railway line! Only major post WW2 changes I can immediately think of are Heidelberg, Braunschweig and Bochum and I think they were all one for one replacements. The first two were replacements of termini with through stations and Bochum was a long delayed “tidy up”, I think.

 

[cactustwirly]

I guess "Bahnhof" is railway yard, literally. This makes some sense as you tend to find European railways tend to combine the purpose of depots and stations, with stations often having extensive sidings and depot functions with lots of rolling stock lying around, whereas in the UK depots almost always lie outside stations (even ones that are quite near them e.g. Kirkdale, Bletchley and Northampton are clearly on separate sites from the actual station).

Stations being outside town aren't unusual in the UK though. The Midland seems quite famous for it, while Chester is a bit of a walk too. I guess in the likes of Germany this is more likely as the railway came later.

Hbf is a shortening of Hauptbahnhof, which translates to main trains station.
Llandudno junction would arguably be a Hbf, as it is the main station serving Llandudno, the town station would be given a Mitte or Stadt suffix

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hbf is a shortening of Hauptbahnhof, which translates to main trains station.

It doesn't. It translates to "main railway yard". A Hof is a yard.

FWIW if you did want to say "main train station" (ugh!) it would be Hauptzugstation or something like that.

(Well, Haupteisenbahnhof would, but Bahn can be taken here to refer implicitly to a railway rather than e.g. a lane of a road as it also refers to).

Llandudno junction would arguably be a Hbf, as it is the main station serving Llandudno, the town station would be given a Mitte or Stadt suffix

The problem with LLJ is that it isn't in Llandudno. Llandudno Jn is an entirely separate settlement with the village of Deganwy located between the two. I don't know if there are any examples like that in Germany - I can't think of one.

If we imagine building it now and the branch not existing (or having been closed and been preserved, giving a sort of comparison with say Bodmin Parkway), it might be Llandudno Parkway, though.

 

[The exile]

The problem with LLJ is that it isn't in Llandudno. Llandudno Jn is an entirely separate settlement with the village of Deganwy located between the two. I don't know if there are any examples like that in Germany - I can't think of one.

Wittlich Hbf is in Wengerohr. That may now be part of Wittlich but there is green space between the two. As it was once the junction for Wittlich (IIRC) the comparison works quite well.

 

[cactustwirly]

It doesn't. It translates to "main railway yard". A Hof is a yard.

(Well, Haupteisenbahnhof would, but Bahn can be taken here to refer implicitly to a railway rather than e.g. a lane of a road as it also refers to).



The problem with LLJ is that it isn't in Llandudno. Llandudno Jn is an entirely separate settlement with the village of Deganwy located between the two. I don't know if there are any examples like that in Germany - I can't think of one.

If we imagine building it now and the branch not existing (or having been closed and been preserved, giving a sort of comparison with say Bodmin Parkway), it might be Llandudno Parkway, though.

I was thinking of Grafing in Bavaria, the main settlement is served by the S Bahn via a separate branch
Mainline trains stop at Grafing Bahnhof

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wittlich Hbf is in Wengerohr. That may now be part of Wittlich but there is green space between the two. As it was once the junction for Wittlich (IIRC) the comparison works quite well.

Fair enough. I suppose you might have Llandudno Hbf and Llandudno Stadt, or something?

Stourbridge gives you a reasonable example - Junction would be the Hbf and Town translates directly!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Oct 2025 ==

I was thinking of Grafing in Bavaria, the main settlement is served by the S Bahn via a separate branch
Mainline trains stop at Grafing Bahnhof

Is that one a bit more like Tring maybe? (Tring station isn't in Tring, it's in Tring Station, a separate settlement that grew up around the railway, though the two have come close to merging now).

There's also Widdrington Station which isn't the same place as Widdrington. Widdrington Station Station?

 

[The exile]

The Dresen and Hamburg examples were 19th and early 20th century respectively- I think it must have been a combination of freight movements between railways, passenger convenience and military purposes, which were a much more important railway function in a continental country, and sometimes extended to funding things like extra tracks on important corridors.

We also tend to forget on our little island the effect of changes to the nation state in the 19th century. ISTR that building Hamburg - Luebeck required three international treaties - with Altona still being part of Denmark at the time. Events of 1871 and thereabouts enabled a lot of consolidation.

 

[dutchflyer]

Greetings from Dresden right now. There is-having travelled quite extensively again in old DDR area, a notable difference between old west and east re where the HBF is situated in relation to city centre. I think, if I remember well, that HBF was used for all towns that have more as 1 station inside its geografic boundaries, so in some cases even quite small cities have it. Naming stations: nearly always as (name of town)+local name/area.
The 2 oldest S-bahn systems-Berlin and Hamburg have old-style 3d rail - like you also have in that old southern region.
S-Bahn was gradually more used for those systems that got a newly built tunnel across the centre-München-Stuttgart-FRankfurt/M-Leipzig came to my mind-there may be more. These were all ´Kopf-bahnhöfe=end stations, so it made sense. Other smaller towns did the same with their U-bahn or trams. I dont think there are any of the like in GB. But in essence it was used for really fairly high frequency fixed timings services-´No waits-neither by them nor on them in case of delay´. And quite a few towns have a newly built branch of S-bahn to end/serve their airport.
And here in DE is very extensively integrated local fares for all modes-nearly always on a zonal base including the area around-and of course since some 3 years now the super-cheap nation wide DE-ticket-all modes. Re fares: there is hardly any system where those complicated time-based=peak/off peak UK apply for.
Not unique for here/DE but very widely used-are those push/pull double deck sets with loco´s. Just 20 mins ago I spotted such a thing on the S1 with just 2 wagons on a peak-hour relief.

 

[Struner]

I suppose Hbfs were only called that after other stations appeared on the scene. Basically any one of those could then be called
Hbf, whether the old one or a new one.

 

[The exile]

I suppose Hbfs were only called that after other stations appeared on the scene. Basically any one of those could then be called
Hbf, whether the old one or a new one.

At the time of naming it would have been the “principal” station. Originally it would have been so named for operational reasons - nowadays it’s often a response to pressure from the local authority as to have a Hbf is a status symbol. Moenchengladbach is, I think, the only place with 2. (Rheydt is now part of Moenchengladbach)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Oct 2025 ==

Greetings from Dresden right now. There is-having travelled quite extensively again in old DDR area, a notable difference between old west and east re where the HBF is situated in relation to city centre.

Any such difference will be entirely coincidental, I’m afraid.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Germany had a long period of regional state ownership and control, and it was post-WW1 (1927) before the national (Reichsbahn) network was formed.
Prussia became the biggest state operator, especially when Hannover was annexed in 1866, and the military (dominated by Prussia) also had a hand in building strategic lines (eg the Kanonenbahn linking Berlin with Metz, newly acquired from France in 1871).
The military also demanded through lines which resulted in many loops and connections to integrate the original point to point lines.

 

[The exile]

Even something apparently simple as “Bahnhof” is very different. In normal everyday German the word is roughly interchangeable with our word railway station - but officially it requires there to be at least one set of points and a facility to register the passage of trains (Zugmekdestelle). Without those (ie your average S-Bahn station) it is merely a “Haltepunkt”.

 

[Struner]

Even something apparently simple as “Bahnhof” is very different. In normal everyday German the word is roughly interchangeable with our word railway station - but officially it requires there to be at least one set of points and a facility to register the passage of trains (Zugmekdestelle). Without those (ie your average S-Bahn station) it is merely a “Haltepunkt”.

isn’t that basically the same in uk? stations & halts?

 

[doc7austin]

What you won't hear in Germany is this annoying announcement: "See it. Say it. Sorted."

 

[Austriantrain]

It doesn't. It translates to "main railway yard". A Hof is a yard.

FWIW if you did want to say "main train station" (ugh!) it would be Hauptzugstation or something

No, no and no. The Word „Bahnhof“ might originate from „railway“ and „yard“, but it translates as „Train Station“ and nothing else.

 

[The exile]

No, no and no. The Word „Bahnhof“ might originate from „railway“ and „yard“, but it translates as „Train Station“ and nothing else.

In everyday speech, yes. Technically, however, a Bahnhof does not have to be equipped with facilities for passengers to board trains. The overwhelming majority do - but not all.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Oct 2025 ==

isn’t that basically the same in uk? stations & halts?

you could have a fully staffed station here with signal box but no points - wouldn’t count as a Bahnhof.

 

[Struner]

deleted

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Oct 2025 ==

In everyday speech, yes. Technically, however, a Bahnhof does not have to be equipped with facilities for passengers to board trains. The overwhelming majority do - but not all.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Oct 2025 ==


you could have a fully staffed station here with signal box but no points - wouldn’t count as a Bahnhof.

here meaning?

 

[Bletchleyite]

In everyday speech, yes. Technically, however, a Bahnhof does not have to be equipped with facilities for passengers to board trains. The overwhelming majority do - but not all.

There is in practice an overlap with "depot" - we would call a Gueterbahnhof a freight depot, not a goods station, in most cases (though the term goods station used to be used). The US of course uses the word depot to mean station. Similarly we don't really have a translation for Rangierbahnhof (shunting station), possibly because the UK doesn't do much shunting - even container freight is often fixed formation these days.

 

[nwales58]

I'd go with the native german speaker's definition above rather than those of us who just speak some german.

Although, to me, it sounds slightly odd when announcements use 'Xyz Main Station' for Hbf, because in british english we do not have that term, I think it is the best translation. It's not necessarily central, but it is the main station although some Hbf are tiny.

Another reason Hbf is used so much is that Germany often puts the local authority in station names, e.g. Düsseldorf Derendorf, Düsseldorf Benrath and so on so Düsseldorf needs a Hbf suffix. We do not, Manchester Heald Green, Manchester Gatley, Manchester Didsbury East and so on sound wrong.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd go with the native german speaker's definition above rather than those of us who just speak some german.

They are not native English speakers, though, so we are actually on an even keel

(I don't just "speak some German", I have a third of a degree in it, in any case)

 

[Tester]

Although, to me, it sounds slightly odd when announcements use 'Xyz Main Station' for Hbf, because in british english we do not have that term, I think it is the best translation. It's not necessarily central, but it is the main station although some Hbf are tiny.

The one that always gives me a snigger is the English, 'Frankfurt Main Station' immediately following the German, 'Frankfurt am Main Hauptbahnhof'.

 

[A S Leib]

What would the best translation for a Stadtbahn in English be, if not just using a calque? Tram-train?

 

[The Pelican]

What would the best translation for a Stadtbahn in English be, if not just using a calque? Tram-train?

I think there are several sorts of Stadtbahn:
1. Mainline railways through the city in Berlin and Vienna, rather like the Manchester Oxford Road line or Thameslink Core.
2. Tram systems modernised with a tunnel
3. Tram systems modernised without a tunnel

I think "city center railway tracks" would be the best general description of the first, while I seem to remember "light rail" was coined for the second and third. On the other hand, every British tram system apart from Blackpool is new, so the modernised/unmodernised distinction is less meaningful- so perhaps "Tram" is as good as anything.

 

[Austriantrain]

They are not native English speakers, though, so we are actually on an even keel

(I don't just "speak some German", I have a third of a degree in it, in any case)

You are not. It‘s you trying to tell me what a German word means, not the other way round.

 

[Oxfordblues]

When I worked for Railfreight International, BR's train-ferry operation, I was occasionally obliged to send telex messages to the Rangierbahnhoffuehrer (we had no umlauts!) at some marshalling yard. I was surprised that the person in charge was still called a "Fuehrer" which my English dictionary told me was a megalomaniac dictator!

 

[Austriantrain]

In everyday speech, yes. Technically, however, a Bahnhof does not have to be equipped with facilities for passengers to board trains. The overwhelming majority do - but not all.

In every kind of modern-day speech. Other kinds of railway „places“ come with a prefix in German and have a different translation in English.

Trying to argue that „Hauptbahnhof“ should translate as „Central railway Depot“ or such silliness is ridiculous.

What should the French „gare“
translate to, since it could be followed by „de marchandises“ and won‘t mean a Train Station in English?

BTW, I don‘t translate „Railway“ into „Schienenweg“ either, not would I translate „railroad“ into „Schienenstraße“.