nigelsporne
Member
With the advent of 756s now running to Penarth and Barry are there enough units to cover these diagrams as well as the TAM services? Could it be that the 398s are imminent?
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Transport for Wales Class 231 / 756 Stadler FLIRTs
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tigermonstera
Member
I believe the current estimation for 398s is early next year / possibly late this year.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Probably worth rummaging around on the dedicated 398 thread for news (or just indications) of progress with them.
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TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains
Thanks for both replies. Appreciated. Welcome. 1756132249 Other than a broken down 398 I saw at Merthyr Tydfil a few months ago, I haven't seen any of these out and about for testing. There are plenty at Taffs Well depot, but they seem to just sit there. Why would you spend all that money on...
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The most recent project plan (in June - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/south-wales-metro-updates.117763/page-242#post-7346693) said that the earliest introduction of 398s would be in November, so about a month away.
Cardiff123
Established Member
According to the press release from the Welsh Government last week, all 24 x 756s will now run in service daily, with Ken Skates saying "the full rollout of the brand-new 756 electric trains is now complete."
Although perhaps not today as 756 003 appears to have failed and been taken out of service at Central on its way to Penarth.
Thinking about it, it seems brave to expect an entire fleet to have 100% availability 6 days a week. But I suppose it's reasonable so long as there are 150s as back-ups.
I presume once operation is fully 756s and 398s they won't all need to be out every day.
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Though the continuing lack of a train on this diagram is now being blamed on slippery rails.
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Dai Corner
Established Member
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TfW are currently saying
Possibly there isn't the capacity to run the full service at reduced speed but the sun's out and should dry the rails off soon?
Unlikely at this point given the Bay line still isn't energised. I suspect it'll slip to January time at the earliest.
berneyarms
Established Member
The press release does not say that all 24 sets will be in service every day - it says that 24 sets will run on the lines.
No fleet (rail or road) ever runs at 100% availability as there is always maintenance cover.
They mean that the full fleet will be operational, but that includes maintenance cover sets each day to allow for exams etc.
tigermonstera
Member
I'm not aware of the figure for 756s, but I believe ~3 of the 398s will be for maintenance cover.
There are 19 diagrams for 24 units.
Davester50
Member
Had the pleasure last week on these trains. Very nice, I thought.
OT. How much of the Valley Lines are using the overheads now then? I couldn't tell if it was on diesel/battery/25kV
OT. How much of the Valley Lines are using the overheads now then? I couldn't tell if it was on diesel/battery/25kV
The Treherbert/Aberdare/Merthyr are more or less fully electric now, as are the services between Coryton and Penarth and the Caerphilly to Penarth services. Services that continue north of Caerphilly are still to be converted, as the OLE is not complete yet.
By fully electric that would either be direct from the overhead, or from the battery at the places where the electrification is discontinuous. The intent is that north of Queen St there is no use of diesel traction. I'm not sure about the Penarth branch though.
Davester50
Member
Thanks
Under normsl circumstances they only ever run off the battery. The OLE and diesel engine are used to charge the battery.
Davester50
Member
Again, thanks. Clever stuff these trains. Wish ScotRail had taken them on.
Philip Roberts
Member
When's north of Caerphilly due to be completed? Thanks
Scotrail are procuring battery trains now, as are Northern, Southeastern and GWR. Whether they buy these or something similar from another manufacturer remains to be seen.
tigermonstera
Member
According to comments elsewhere on this forum, I think they can get down to Penarth and back on battery alone.
December, supposedly.
Yes, definitely. It probably helps that energy expended going up the hill to Penarth is recovered through regenerative braking on the way back down!
nigelsporne
Member
Am I correct in saying that there are no wires between Cardiff and Penarth? If so are any planned? So on the Penarth service the only place having wires is the Coryton branch and some pieces up to Caerphilly plus the bay there. This is obviously sufficient to recharge a 756.
Not any time soon - the electrification is entirely on infrastructure that has been transferred to Transport for Wales.
By 'Bay Line' do you mean a bay platform somewhere or the Queen Street to Cardiff Bay route? The reason I ask is that I thought the intent was for the 398s to use their batteries on that bit rather than OHLE (allowing them to only have 25kv capability and not the lower-voltage required for on-street sections). Admittedly I do also vaugely recall something about the planned extension to 'The Flourish' (new tram stop) being dropped (or was it just the silly name they got rid of) so my thinking is probably out of date.
tigermonstera
Member
398s will use 25kv OHLE between Cardiff Bay Station and just north of Butetown Station. They will use batteries during street running on Cardiff Crossrail, although the latest designs suggest there will be overhead conductor bars for recharging at Cardiff Central. You are correct, The Flourish has been dropped in favour of a future extension eastwards towards Pierhead Street (and potentially at some point Splott/Tremorfa/Cardiff East).
Yeah, the tram setup is very unusual: the 398s are 25kV only so any street running has to be on battery. (399s in Sheffield are compatible with both 750V DC and 25kV, but the Rotherham extension is energised at 750V DC despite being on a railway).
If Crossrail ultimately reaches Splott and Tremorfa, there’ll probably be some additional 25kV overhead on the ex-railway sections of line to help keep batteries topped up.
If Crossrail ultimately reaches Splott and Tremorfa, there’ll probably be some additional 25kV overhead on the ex-railway sections of line to help keep batteries topped up.
I assume the 398s could have the 750V DC kit retro-fitted if enough on-street extensions are built to justify it (and indeed I assumed the 399s only had 750V DC, with 25kv an option for future retro-fit if Sheffield actually got heavy-rail electrification), but this isn't the 398 thread so we should probably leave it there.
No need, the batteries are 140kWh which will be enough to have them off wire for 45-60 minutes easily given their duty cycle - longer for low speed / frequent stop routes. It would be relatively easy to put in opportunity charging at the end of any new line in the event that an onstreet section was more than (say) 20 minutes run time from an existing wired section.
Out of interest the 756s have been running in OLE + Battery format for a while now, with automatic pan up / pan down / charging etc. How many incidents have there been of trains losing pantograhs or failing having run out of charge?
Well the wires are set up to have a pan down fail safe even if the balise fails. So I would hope not (not heard of any). They also have a diesel engine so I guess the chances of getting stuck out of battery are pretty slim?