Potential South London improvement ideas?

[stssts1985]

I live in Brixton and have always been frustrated that there’s no stop here on either the Overground (South London line) or Southeastern’s Victoria–Dartford via Lewisham route.


I know the South London line tracks are high and curved, and building anything over the main road or on top of the existing Southeastern platforms (Victoria–Orpington) would be very difficult. But there is a practical option:

• Build four new platformson relatively low viaducts behind M&S:
  • 2 on the South London line (Overground)
  • 2 relocated platforms on the Chatham Main Line (Victoria–Orpington)
• The site could use the lane between M&S and Superdrug (Dorrell Place), with the station footprint sitting on Nursery Road.
• This would allow a central interchange (similar to Peckham Rye), and potentially even an escalator connection down to the Victoria line (which runs directly beneath at that point, near the opposite end of the existing escalators for good passenger flow).

The land is currently light industrial/scrapyard/arches, so redevelopment is realistic.


Service pattern (if built):

• 4 tph Overground to Clapham Junction
• 4 tph Overground to Canada Water and beyond (avoiding Zone 1)
• 4 tph Southeastern to Bromley South / Orpington (relocated platforms)
• 2 tph Southeastern to Lewisham, Blackheath, Dartford
• 6 tph Southeastern to Victoria only (2 more than current, however less useful given the Victoria line)

In the longer term, I’d love to see a 4 tph Overground Clapham Junction–Lewisham service, though I know that would need resignalling to avoid conflicting moves at Peckham Rye.

I would not propose that Fast services on the Chatham Mainline or Semi-fast services via Denmark hill to Gillingham would call here, same as they don't call now.


Overall, I think this would be heavily used, provide lots of direct new journey opportunities, and create a very useful interchange between the Victoria line, Southeastern, and the Overground.


What do people think—feasible or a fantasy?

 

[SynthD]

Is the Overground line there on an incline?

Other than the second tube station entrance, is there a way to deal with the two road crossings people will need to take from one station to the other?

 

[stssts1985]

Is the Overground line there on an incline?

Other than the second tube station entrance, is there a way to deal with the two road crossings people will need to take from one station to the other?

I agree, the roads are very chaotic and would want to avoid more pedestrians crossing the main road - it's busy enough as it is. However I believe passengers would switch between platforms on Overgound and southeastern within the same station. Switching directly to Victoria line via an escalator straight to the platform. I would predict this could reduce the number of pedestrians at street level?

The overground line would be on an incline. Would that be a problem?

 

[Bald Rick]

What do people think—feasible or a fantasy?

Both!

 

[brad465]

I'd extend the Victoria line to Herne Hill and shut Brixton mainline station altogether: passengers wanting Brixton can get the Vicky line from Victoria anyway, and if they want it from the country direction, having Herne Hill as an interchange helps maintain that connection. Then SE stoppers have 1 fewer stop to worry about and block faster services less, while the rife fare evasion that happens here (passengers travelling from further afield only paying for a Brixton-Zone 1 journey) is significantly curtailed.

 

[Halish Railway]

In the longer term, I’d love to see a 4 tph Overground Clapham Junction–Lewisham service, though I know that would need resignalling to avoid conflicting moves at Peckham Rye.

I’d rather run such a service to Willesden Junction for interchange with HS2, the GWML and Elizabeth line at Old Oak Common, as well as building fill-in stations at Loughborough Junction and Brockley.

It would be very difficult to pull off, but I’d imagine that it would present much better value for money than extending the Bakerloo line to Lewisham.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Were there not originally platforms on the high level lines and also another station between Brixton and Loughborough Junction?

 

[Sad Sprinter]

The whole ex-LCDR suburban routes need major attention tbh. A lot of wasted potential there.

 

[davews]

As a non Brixton resident unfamiliar with the town the one time I changed from SE to Victoria line I found it a not very pleasant experience and not well signposted either. Better interchange between these two stations needed first. If there is a new overground station this also needs quick and easy interchange to the other two.

 

[Backroom_boy]

Is the Overground line there on an incline?

Other than the second tube station entrance, is there a way to deal with the two road crossings people will need to take from one station to the other?

I think i remember hearing there is a main sewer running along Brixton high street so a subway/ second entrance would be a big job

 

[stssts1985]

while the rife fare evasion that happens here (passengers travelling from further afield only paying for a Brixton-Zone 1 journey) is significantly cucurtailed

That's a really interesting observation - I dont think any station until Bromley South has ticket barriers on this line and most have multiple entrances.

Were there not originally platforms on the high level lines and also another station between Brixton and Loughborough Junction?

There was East Brixton, closed in the 70s, i believe it is where there are flats now beyond Brixton Village on coldharbour lane

Better interchange between these two stations needed first. If there is a new overground station this also needs quick and easy interchange to the other two.

The current change to southeastern is very poor walking down a very crowded high street- the current national rail station is poor and why i believe relocation would offer a underground interchange without going on a road

think i remember hearing there is a main sewer running along Brixton high street so a subway/ second entrance would be a big job

I heard this too - if the new station was relocated to nursery lane you'd be able to use the existing Victoria line platforms themselves as the connection to the new rail station and avoid this

The whole ex-LCDR suburban routes need major attention tbh. A lot of wasted potential there.

I agree - the south london line did not recieve the full overground upgrade in my opinion- such a big gap between Clapham high street and Denmark Hill

 

[Cach17]

I'd extend the Victoria line to Herne Hill and shut Brixton mainline station altogether: passengers wanting Brixton can get the Vicky line from Victoria anyway, and if they want it from the country direction, having Herne Hill as an interchange helps maintain that connection. Then SE stoppers have 1 fewer stop to worry about and block faster services less, while the rife fare evasion that happens here (passengers travelling from further afield only paying for a Brixton-Zone 1 journey) is significantly curtailed.

If that happened then anyone travelling between Brixton and Kent would have to make two changes instead of just one (Bromley South). Doubling back via Victoria would also be an inconvenience.

 

[Jaydubya]

I'd extend the Victoria line to Herne Hill and shut Brixton mainline station altogether: passengers wanting Brixton can get the Vicky line from Victoria anyway, and if they want it from the country direction, having Herne Hill as an interchange helps maintain that connection. Then SE stoppers have 1 fewer stop to worry about and block faster services less, while the rife fare evasion that happens here (passengers travelling from further afield only paying for a Brixton-Zone 1 journey) is significantly curtailed.

There are Oyster card readers on the platform so some passengers get off tap in and get back on. As many people transfer to the Victoria Line here in the morning they have ample time to do so. Some don’t tap out at all and head straight for the Victoria Line. There is not much that can be done other than frequent ticket inspections at the station. Some stations such as Shortlands, Beckenham Junction and West Dulwich could be given barriers to help get people to pay!

 

[frankmoh]

Brixton station is just terribly laid out in my opinion. Last time I went there, I had a hard time finding the down platform as the National Rail sign outside the tunnel was obscured by a market stall. The stairs in the tunnel itself are also quite easy to miss.

There are Oyster card readers on the platform so some passengers get off tap in and get back on. As many people transfer to the Victoria Line here in the morning they have ample time to do so. Some don’t tap out at all and head straight for the Victoria Line. There is not much that can be done other than frequent ticket inspections at the station. Some stations such as Shortlands, Beckenham Junction and West Dulwich could be given barriers to help get people to pay!

It's just Southeastern being Southeastern. Other silly SE barrier nonsense includes Elephant & Castle having no barriers despite being in Zone 1, and Bromley South having barriers whereas Bromley North down the street doesn't have any barriers.

I think they just bank on the majority of passengers going to a barriered station, in this case Victoria.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Brixton station is a weird one for me, it should be a much busier station with the Victoria line interchange alone (albeit an OSI interchange) but when I lived in Sydenham Hill in the mid to late 00s I would see more people continue to Victoria and change for the tube there, I know Brixton has become a major destination in recent years but the station is still rather a run down sorry state.

I agree with the poster above who said extend the Victoria line to Herne Hill and close Brixton mainline down, the SE service to Victoria is no faster than the Victoria line to Victoria from Brixton despite being “non stop”

It’s not as if you could add the SLL platforms to the mainline station due to how boxed in the station is.

 

[Brubulus]

Brixton station is a weird one for me, it should be a much busier station with the Victoria line interchange alone (albeit an OSI interchange) but when I lived in Sydenham Hill in the mid to late 00s I would see more people continue to Victoria and change for the tube there, I know Brixton has become a major destination in recent years but the station is still rather a run down sorry state.

I agree with the poster above who said extend the Victoria line to Herne Hill and close Brixton mainline down, the SE service to Victoria is no faster than the Victoria line to Victoria from Brixton despite being “non stop”

It’s not as if you could add the SLL platforms to the mainline station due to how boxed in the station is.

The issue with extending the Victoria line is that the core of the line could easily become far too crowded at peak times and there's no way to get frequencies above 36tph.

 

[brad465]

The issue with extending the Victoria line is that the core of the line could easily become far too crowded at peak times and there's no way to get frequencies above 36tph.

The proposed Herne Hill extension has the station on a balloon loop, which helps in two ways: firstly there are no crossover conflicts and turnaround is faster, second, passengers can alight on one side and board on the other side of a train without mingling.

 

[Mr. SW]

The big sewer running through Brixton is the culverted River Effra.
Here is some blurb

River Effra Walk with Map (Self-Guided)

The River Effra is south London's main lost river. It once flowed from Norwood to Vauxhall where it met with the River Thames. You can walk..

wandlenews.com

The River Effra is south London’s main lost river. It once flowed from West Norwood and Dulwich, through Herne Hill, Brixton and Kennington to Vauxhall where it met with the River Thames.

Today it is buried underground, and used as part of London’s sewer system. Despite this however, it is still possible to walk the original course of the River Effra, and see signs of its influence on our environment.

I suspect some serious investment is needed in Brixton, as for overcrowding on the Victoria Line: Well, all the lines are overcrowded and any extension would transfer the overcrowding to another place, so no change then.

 

[Zomboid]

Sorting out Brixton properly to integrate the stations would be a megabucks job with a lot of demolition that I don't see anyone undertaking in my lifetime. Extending the Victoria line probably likewise, but more likely to happen at some point before the heat death of the universe.

 

[stssts1985]

he issue with extending the Victoria line is that the core of the line could easily become far too crowded at peak times and there's no way to get frequencies above 36tph.

I’d route the Lewisham services to Clapham Junction, increasing frequency to 4 trains per hour. A Platform 0 at Clapham Junction would make this operationally feasible

The South London line into Clapham Junction demonstrates clear demand for orbital connectivity — ridership has grown significantly since the Overground’s introduction — yet there remain long gaps between stations and limited intermediate interchange points. South London’s core problem isn’t access to central London, but movement within South London itself. Brixton to Lewisham is a prime example of a missing, high-value corridor.

The rail network south of the Thames is a dense but disjointed web of lines, with service patterns that are often irregular and confusing. Many stations see a nominal 4 trains per hour, but split between different London terminals or inconsistent stopping patterns, while key interchanges like Lewisham are omitted. Add in non-TfL fare structures and the result is a network that’s less intuitive and less well-used than it could be.

A rationalised, TfL-style network offering consistent 4tph “turn up and go” frequencies across clearly defined corridors would encourage usage and simplify travel behaviour, much as the Overground has done elsewhere in London.

With targeted investment, several key interventions could unlock significant benefits:

• Connect Loughborough Junction to the South London line for cross-network interchange.
• Increase Lewisham–South London line services and develop an X-shaped interchange at Bickley.
• Relocate Brixton station to integrate the South London line with a direct, road-free Victoria line interchange.
• Add a Camberwell station on Thameslink to fill a major central gap.
• Introduce a Battersea Power Station stop on the Victoria–Orpington route.
• Improve local train connections into East Croydon.
• Provide high-level platforms at Streatham Common for the Thameslink Sutton Loop.

South London is blessed with one of the most intricate and diverse webs of rail lines in the world, yet underperforms as a cohesive urban network. With a clearer focus on creating named, urban-style transport lines — branded and structured like the Overground or Elizabeth line — we could deliver genuine legibility and usability. Giving South London’s railways the TfL treatment would transform them from a tangle of legacy routes into a modern, high-frequency metropolitan system fit for the 21st century.

(and that is how you spend Billions £ from the comfort of your armchair lol)

 

[Backroom_boy]

The proposed Herne Hill extension has the station on a balloon loop, which helps in two ways: firstly there are no crossover conflicts and turnaround is faster, second, passengers can alight on one side and board on the other side of a train without mingling.

Balloon loop yes, but i think Herne Hill would use up capacity with passengers who could stay on till Victoria. I would have the loop serving a double ended station between Brixton Hill and Tulse Hill roads around Brixton water lane, so serving several very busy routes for south London better than the Brixton town centre bottleneck

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I’d route the Lewisham services to Clapham Junction, increasing frequency to 4 trains per hour. A Platform 0 at Clapham Junction would make this operationally feasible

The South London line into Clapham Junction demonstrates clear demand for orbital connectivity — ridership has grown significantly since the Overground’s introduction — yet there remain long gaps between stations and limited intermediate interchange points. South London’s core problem isn’t access to central London, but movement within South London itself. Brixton to Lewisham is a prime example of a missing, high-value corridor.

The rail network south of the Thames is a dense but disjointed web of lines, with service patterns that are often irregular and confusing. Many stations see a nominal 4 trains per hour, but split between different London terminals or inconsistent stopping patterns, while key interchanges like Lewisham are omitted. Add in non-TfL fare structures and the result is a network that’s less intuitive and less well-used than it could be.

A rationalised, TfL-style network offering consistent 4tph “turn up and go” frequencies across clearly defined corridors would encourage usage and simplify travel behaviour, much as the Overground has done elsewhere in London.

With targeted investment, several key interventions could unlock significant benefits:

• Connect Loughborough Junction to the South London line for cross-network interchange.
• Increase Lewisham–South London line services and develop an X-shaped interchange at Bickley.
• Relocate Brixton station to integrate the South London line with a direct, road-free Victoria line interchange.
• Add a Camberwell station on Thameslink to fill a major central gap.
• Introduce a Battersea Power Station stop on the Victoria–Orpington route.
• Improve local train connections into East Croydon.
• Provide high-level platforms at Streatham Common for the Thameslink Sutton Loop.

South London is blessed with one of the most intricate and diverse webs of rail lines in the world, yet underperforms as a cohesive urban network. With a clearer focus on creating named, urban-style transport lines — branded and structured like the Overground or Elizabeth line — we could deliver genuine legibility and usability. Giving South London’s railways the TfL treatment would transform them from a tangle of legacy routes into a modern, high-frequency metropolitan system fit for the 21st century.

(and that is how you spend Billions £ from the comfort of your armchair lol)

I’ve said numerous times that South London needs more Overgrounds but for some weird reason there’s an entrenched opposition to expanding the Overground on these forums.

 

[stssts1985]

I’ve said numerous times that South London needs more Overgrounds but for some weird reason there’s an entrenched opposition to expanding the Overground on these forums.

Im amazed there would be opposition. Look at the transformative effect north London, staffed stations, easy to understand maps, ticket barriers in many places, frequent services. And passenger numbers through the roof. Id love to know the exact numbers but the figures are obscured by the expansions of the overground to know the difference like for like on the north london line overground.

 

[MPW]

It wouldn't be perfect because of curves in the railway and a couple older buildings but it seems like something could be done where sports direct is and next to that for enlarged station, direct tube access, and platforms for the overground. Not cheap certainly but looks doable and maybe some development could be squeezed in to help with funding.

The overground viaduct is so high up that maybe it could be done with minimal impact to brixton market. Maybe even northern track realigned further north to fit in an island platform.

Note: maybe is doing a lot of work here but the current situation feels like a massive missed opportunity.

 

[SynthD]

The current change to southeastern is very poor walking down a very crowded high street- the current national rail station is poor and why i believe relocation would offer a underground interchange without going on a road
I heard this too - if the new station was relocated to nursery lane you'd be able to use the existing Victoria line platforms themselves as the connection to the new rail station and avoid this

It looks like the platforms are on the east side of the main road, the crossover is at the nearest point to the new station site.

Introduce a Battersea Power Station stop on the Victoria–Orpington route.

Battersea Park station does the job.

Improve local train connections into East Croydon.

Such as?

for some weird reason there’s an entrenched opposition to expanding the Overground on these forums.

If you want a realistic plan it shouldn’t blithely demolish Brixton market. Lewisham can’t reverse trains. But if we are ignoring such details then we are in favour of pretty much everything Overground as there will be demand to use it.

 

[stssts1985]

overground viaduct is so high up that maybe it could be done with minimal impact to brixton market. Maybe even northern track realigned further north to fit in an island platform.

you want a realistic plan it shouldn’t blithely demolish Brixton marke

I was thinking (I keep looking round it) the best site would be the end of dorelle place on nursery road - the viaducts are much lower here, its currently light industry units and scrap and is directly above the top of the Victoria line platforms for an escalator to interchange avoiding main road

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Battersea Park station does the job

I say it for people from south east london accessing a massively growing housing, work and leisure destination. Suddenly you had have 4 stations in battersea on all different lines due to history

Such as?

East Croydon - a regular service on the slow line towards new Cross- currently requires a change at Norwood Junction

A conistent service on slow line towards balaham - currehtly a 30 min gap

A connection over what is party tramlink towards Bromley and Orpington would be awesome

Lewisham can’t reverse trains

Do you think a 4 carrage bay platform or cutting could be accommodated? Or at Blackheath?

Really agree with you here

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Oct 2025 ==

Note: maybe is doing a lot of work here but the current situation feels like a massive missed opportunity.

Really agree with you here

 

[30907]

I think there's a decent case for:
Brixton platforms on the Atlantic lines if the curvature/gradient permits (they would extend as far as Ferndale Road
4tph via Lewisham (and a station at Brockley Lane while we're about it).

I'm less convinced about moving Brixton LCDR, though doing so would allow its accessibility issues to be dealt with: what is the traffic flow being facilitated?
Clapham Jn is the key interchange here:
to/from Shortlands and beyond is catered for via Denmark Hill (better with 4tph all day via Catford, admittedly), so that leaves Herne Hill to Beckenham Jn which isn't a vast flow.

 

[brad465]

I think there's a decent case for:
Brixton platforms on the Atlantic lines if the curvature/gradient permits (they would extend as far as Ferndale Road
4tph via Lewisham (and a station at Brockley Lane while we're about it).

Is 4tph via Lewisham even path-able? There are multiple flat crossings involved along the busy stretch between Nunhead Jct and Wandsworth Road, plus this is a principle freight corridor. At Lewisham itself there would be increased conflicts with services to/from Charing X using Tanners Hill flyover.

 

[NorthKent1989]

I’ve said numerous times that South London needs more Overgrounds but for some weird reason there’s an entrenched opposition to expanding the Overground on these forums.

I agree, most of the SE train lines are primed to be turned orange.

Is 4tph via Lewisham even path-able? There are multiple flat crossings involved along the busy stretch between Nunhead Jct and Wandsworth Road, plus this is a principle freight corridor. At Lewisham itself there would be increased conflicts with services to/from Charing X using Tanners Hill flyover.

The Lewisham-Victoria route was set to go 4tph awhile back but I think the train cuts in 2022 stopped this from going ahead.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I agree, most of the SE train lines are primed to be turned orange.


The Lewisham-Victoria route was set to go 4tph awhile back but I think the train cuts in 2022 stopped this from going ahead.

That would be so useful. Add a stop in at Brockley so those of us on the Sydenham Corridor can get to Victoria a little more easily