Avanti west coast digital travel irregularity

[tkc030765]

Hi guys,

I hope you’re well and thank you for taking the time to read this and help my partner with this matter.

He received an email recently regarding travel irregularities on my account, similarly to the many others on this page. Please find the letter below:

To note I advised him to not respond to the email to which he did, but now I’m worried that they’ll dive further in to his footprint and the charges will be more than they’re intending, can you advise on this, should he pay settlement or leave it?

Working with various industry systems and data, we have identified that there are significant irregularities related to fares for your travel on Avanti West Coast Services. The nature of these irregularities has highlighted your transactions and have indicated possible miscalculating of travel routes to take advantage of lower fares, prompting further investigation.


We understand that mistakes can happen, and it is possible there may be a misunderstanding or error in our records. Our aim is to ensure that our processes are transparent and fair to all our valued customers.


We have gathered details regarding these fare irregularities, and we kindly request your assistance in this matter by providing any information or clarification related to your travel with Avanti West Coast. Please respond to us within 7 days by email at AWCDigitalFraud@avantiwestcoast.co.uk

He replied as they sent him a follow up, this was his response -

I thought these emails were a scam so I haven’t paid any attention.

Please can you let me know what this is about?

Thanks,

This was there response:

After our investigation into your recent purchases, we have determined that you have engaged in short fare ticketing practices. Namely buying a Stockport to Manchester Ticket to enable exit and entrance through the gates at Piccadilly. We take this issue very seriously, as it undermines the integrity of our service and affects all of our customers.


As a result, we are offering you the opportunity to settle this matter out of court by paying a sum of £250. This settlement will prevent the case from being escalated to our prosecutions team and may help you avoid further legal consequences.

How to pay:
• By credit or debit card at www. https://awcrecovery.avantiwestcoast.co.uk


Please be advised that if we do not receive the payment within 14 days, we will have no choice but to proceed with referring your case to our prosecutions team, which may lead to more serious implications, including potential legal action.


We urge you to consider this situation carefully and respond promptly. If you have any questions or wish to discuss this matter further, please do not hesitate to contact us.


Thank you for your attention to this serious matter.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Oct 2025 ==

@AlterEgo @Hadders can you advise?

 

[fandroid]

Well, was he travelling from somewhere further out than Stockport?

I'm not sure what you mean by him travelling on your account and if you mean using your account with an online ticket seller, how was it that they contacted him and not you?

To consider whether he should pay the amount offered we'd need to know more details about the journeys taken, over what period and how many were there where the full fare was avoided.

It looks as if they are very confident about the extent of the fare avoidance.

 

[LYradial]

Do your posts last year re greater anglia travel irregularities not help at all

 

[tkc030765]

Do your posts last year re greater anglia travel irregularities not help at all

This has nothing to do with this, this was my partner not me lol, the difference is that I never replied and have been lucky, and he unfortunately did reply which is why I’m asking as it’s a different scenario

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Oct 2025 ==

Well, was he travelling from somewhere further out than Stockport?

I'm not sure what you mean by him travelling on your account and if you mean using your account with an online ticket seller, how was it that they contacted him and not you?

To consider whether he should pay the amount offered we'd need to know more details about the journeys taken, over what period and how many were there where the full fare was avoided.

It looks as if they are very confident about the extent of the fare avoidance.

Sorry I worded this wrong it’s basically him on his a anti west coast account dodging tickets he would get on at another station which was further out than Stockport to Manchester and then when it came to being nearby Manchester he would buy a ticket online from Stockport to Manchester, I hope this clears things a bit

 

[styles]

This has nothing to do with this, this was my partner not me lol, the difference is that I never replied and have been lucky, and he unfortunately did reply which is why I’m asking as it’s a different scenario

Right your statements after the lol don't really answer the question. And I'll try really hard to be civil here.

You've been previously advised. Do those posts help at all?

 

[tkc030765]

He was doing this before I was even with him so a good couple of years which is why I said I’m cautious that if he settles they’ll dig deeper in to his footprint? He’s never been caught in person ever

 

[styles]

He was doing this before I was even with him so a good couple of years which is why I said I’m cautious that if he settles they’ll dig deeper in to his footprint? He’s never been caught in person ever

Your pal isn't up against it here, you are. Try and focus on your own actions.

 

[tkc030765]

Right your statements after the lol don't really answer the question. And I'll try really hard to be civil here.

You've been previously advised. Do those posts help at all?

Yes for my situation they did, for this situation no which is why I’ve placed this post? I don’t get why you’re being difficult I wouldn’t upload a thread if I wasn’t sure on what to do or to help my partner in this matter !’

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Oct 2025 ==

Hell

Your pal isn't up against it here, you are. Try and focus on your own actions.

you’re not being helpful in the slightest I’ve done this post as he has asked me to, I’m not making it my problem

 

[styles]

Yes for my situation they did, for this situation no which is why I’ve placed this post? I don’t get why you’re being difficult I wouldn’t upload a thread if I wasn’t sure on what to do or to help my partner in this matter !’

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Oct 2025 ==

Hell

you’re not being helpful in the slightest I’ve done this post as he has asked me to, I’m not making it my problem

Alright, I'll duck out. Good luck.

 

[WesternLancer]

He was doing this before I was even with him so a good couple of years which is why I said I’m cautious that if he settles they’ll dig deeper in to his footprint? He’s never been caught in person ever

It sounds as if his history of evasion over the time period you mention is probably more than the £250 they are asking for in the request you quote.

Not sure what to advise. What’s the realistic ability to trace him to an address. I assume that is the starting point for any court action they might seek to try eg civil court action perhaps.

 

[tkc030765]

It sounds as if his history of evasion over the time period you mention is probably more than the £250 they are asking for in the request you quote.

Not sure what to advise. What’s the realistic ability to trace him to an address. I assume that is the starting point for any court action they might seek to try eg civil court action perhaps.

they will not have access to his address, these tickets were done via trainline but he only has his email address

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2025 ==

@Hadders hi hadders I hope you’re well! Are you able to kindly advise please?!

 

[WesternLancer]

they will not have access to his address, these tickets were done via trainline but he only has his email address

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2025 ==

@Hadders hi hadders I hope you’re well! Are you able to kindly advise please?!

Thanks but presumably the short tickets from Stockport were paid for using a bank card that’s linked to an address?

Aside from dealing with the e mail and request to pay / deciding to pay or not pay I think your partner needs to a) stop doing any sort of evasion- he’s on the radar
And b) not delete the trainline account but certainly stop using it for ticket purchases.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Thanks but presumably the short tickets from Stockport were paid for using a bank card that’s linked to an address?

Does Stockport have barriers? If so, that may well be the evidence that Avanti have, tickets only ever scanned at Manchester. On a one-off basis, no conclusions could be drawn, but as a regular pattern it would look as if the passenger was already on the train when passing through Stockport.

I might speculate that Avanti have three options, possibly four. They can try to make one of their private prosecutions work. They may not have strong enough evidence, but they could operate a sting to catch the passenger in the act. They might try a fraud prosecution but the bar for evidence and public interest is higher. They could also try civil action, for which they only have to show a balance of probabilities.

 

[jfollows]

Stockport has barriers, yes. They block the entrance to the subway from the booking hall. The were attended and in use on Friday evening, so probably most of the time.

 

[tkc030765]

Thanks but presumably the short tickets from Stockport were paid for using a bank card that’s linked to an address?

Aside from dealing with the e mail and request to pay / deciding to pay or not pay I think your partner needs to a) stop doing any sort of evasion- he’s on the radar
And b) not delete the trainline account but certainly stop using it for ticket purchases.

He hasn’t been doing it for the last 6 months, I’ve advised him to use a different app or pay paper tickets in cash for the time being, the first initial email he received was on the 3rd September and has been ongoing since, do you think he should pay the settlement or ignore it?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2025 ==

Stockport has barriers, yes. They block the entrance to the subway from the booking hall. The were attended and in use on Friday evening, so probably most of the time.

So they’ve probably clocked that the ticket was never scanned in as he bought whilst on the train?

 

[WesternLancer]

Does Stockport have barriers? If so, that may well be the evidence that Avanti have, tickets only ever scanned at Manchester. On a one-off basis, no conclusions could be drawn, but as a regular pattern it would look as if the passenger was already on the train when passing through Stockport.

I might speculate that Avanti have three options, possibly four. They can try to make one of their private prosecutions work. They may not have strong enough evidence, but they could operate a sting to catch the passenger in the act. They might try a fraud prosecution but the bar for evidence and public interest is higher. They could also try civil action, for which they only have to show a balance of probabilities.

I’ve no idea how the software works but it’s going to be some process that knows a payment card is registered to a postal address nowhere near Stockport whilst a load of tickets are bought to or from Stockport and no scans at ticket barriers ever at Stockport.

Circumstantial evidence I guess but digital footprints if not fingerprints relatively easy to follow I suspect.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2025 ==

He hasn’t been doing it for the last 6 months, I’ve advised him to use a different app or pay paper tickets in cash for the time being, the first initial email he received was on the 3rd September and has been ongoing since, do you think he should pay the settlement or ignore it?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2025 ==


So they’ve probably clocked that the ticket was never scanned in as he bought whilst on the train?

I’m not sure if paying this is a good idea or not. If it concludes the matter then it’s probably fairly cheap solution but I have no idea one way or the other if it would.

 

[tkc030765]

I’ve no idea how the software works but it’s going to be some process that knows a payment card is registered to a postal address nowhere near Stockport whilst a load of tickets are bought to or from Stockport and no scans at ticket barriers ever at Stockport.

Circumstantial evidence I guess but digital footprints if not fingerprints relatively easy to follow I suspect.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2025 ==


I’m not sure if paying this is a good idea or not. If it concludes the matter then it’s probably fairly cheap solution but I have no idea one way or the other if it would.

Thank you for looking in to it, we’re unsure what do with settlement still, he only has a few days if anyone else can advise that would be super helpful!!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Oct 2025 ==

Well, was he travelling from somewhere further out than Stockport?

I'm not sure what you mean by him travelling on your account and if you mean using your account with an online ticket seller, how was it that they contacted him and not you?

To consider whether he should pay the amount offered we'd need to know more details about the journeys taken, over what period and how many were there where the full fare was avoided.

It looks as if they are very confident about the extent of the fare avoidance.

 

[lrbvoyager]

May I ask a question to the professionals?

 

[John R]

May I ask a question to the professionals?

This thread is to give advice to the OP. If you want to discuss a particular point more generally then it is usually best to start a new thread.

 

[island]

Thank you for looking in to it, we’re unsure what do with settlement still, he only has a few days if anyone else can advise that would be super helpful!!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Oct 2025 ==

Was the passenger who used the tickets ever spoken to in person by a railway staff member and questioned about their travel?

 

[tkc030765]

Was the passenger who used the tickets ever spoken to in person by a railway staff member and questioned about their travel?

No he has not been questioned or spoken to about it in person!

 

[WesternLancer]

Well I suppose it’s down to an appetite for risk if this is ignored.

But presumably they would be after the fares avoided, not some court style punishment, so morally it could be argued he should pay what he owes them.

 

[davp]

I've read your thread last year really carefully. We don't have a huge amount of info about what exactly has been happening with your partner, but the cases are remarkably similar except that it is a different train company and your partner has apparently replied once. You will have a view as to whether that reply has incriminated your partner, or not. We don't know the extent of information Avanti have, neither it seems does your partner, except that it is sufficient for Avanti to send an email to him accusing him of short faring.

You will see from other cases on here that £250 isn't at the higher end of settlement figures. We don't know whether Avanti will come back at a later date, for example including if they discover something else or your partner continues with this behaviour.

There is a fair bit of uncertainty here. I agree with WesternLancer that this is about your partner's appetite for risk. There is helpful and detailed discussion about that in your thread, and much of that seems to apply here too.

Whatever your partner decides to do, I would suggest you share the advice offered to you about your future travel with him.

 

[island]

No he has not been questioned or spoken to about it in person!

As it stands, then, it seems to me that unless the email responses have admitted otherwise, Avanti has no evidence that an offence was committed. It's not an offence to buy that ticket and not use it, or to use it for a journey such as Heaton Chapel to Manchester Piccadilly where no entrance scan would be possible. Replying further risks giving them such evidence.

What you should however be under no illusions about is that your card is well and truly marked and it is incumbent on you, and any other passengers under discussion, to purchase the correct ticket for your full journey going forward.

 

[tkc030765]

As it stands, then, it seems to me that unless the email responses have admitted otherwise, Avanti has no evidence that an offence was committed. It's not an offence to buy that ticket and not use it, or to use it for a journey such as Heaton Chapel to Manchester Piccadilly where no entrance scan would be possible. Replying further risks giving them such evidence.

What you should however be under no illusions about is that your card is well and truly marked and it is incumbent on you, and any other passengers under discussion, to purchase the correct ticket for your full journey going forward.

His reply was incriminating himself he simply just responded as he thought it was spam, maybe the best bet is to ignore so he doesn’t incriminate himself even more

 

[Paul AC]

His reply was incriminating himself he simply just responded as he thought it was spam, maybe the best bet is to ignore so he doesn’t incriminate himself even more

Generally speaking it's best not to reply to spam anyway, as that's a good way of confirming a valid email address - so you'll tend to receive even more spam!

 

[WesternLancer]

His reply was incriminating himself he simply just responded as he thought it was spam, maybe the best bet is to ignore so he doesn’t incriminate himself even more

This is the judgment call he has to make. Ignoring it and seeing what may or may not happen is an option. (assume you mean 'not incriminating himself')

 

[scrapy]

Avanti has no evidence that an offence was committed. It's not an offence to buy that ticket and not use it, or to use it for a journey such as Heaton Chapel to Manchester Piccadilly where no entrance scan would be possible.

That would depend whether the tickets purchased were valid on trains that stopped at Heaton Chapel. Also if the person travelling was scanning in at Piccadilly maybe on a couple of occasions it could be believed that there was a last minute change of plan, however a court would probably not believe tthe passenger didnt travel if this was a regular occurance. Without full details of the journeys made and tickets purchased we cannot say either way whether Avanti has evidence of an offence. If the tickets were used to exit at Piccadilly then they can probably convince a court travel happened.

 

[island]

That would depend whether the tickets purchased were valid on trains that stopped at Heaton Chapel. Also if the person travelling was scanning in at Piccadilly maybe on a couple of occasions it could be believed that there was a last minute change of plan, however a court would probably not believe tthe passenger didnt travel if this was a regular occurance. Without full details of the journeys made and tickets purchased we cannot say either way whether Avanti has evidence of an offence. If the tickets were used to exit at Piccadilly then they can probably convince a court travel happened.

That falls well short of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but even if it didn't, it is still far from clear that Avanti has evidence capable of convicting anyone of an offence. They might be able to prove an offence was committed, but, based on the information posted so far, it does not seem that they will be able to prove who committed it.

 

[plugwash]

Does Stockport have barriers?

Platforms 1-4 at stockport have barriers, but they are frequently left open.

Platform 0 has no barriers but is only used for trains travelling away from manchester (and only local/regional trains at that).