Farewell NS ICR coaches

[MarcVD]

This saturday a special train ran to bid farewell to the NS ICR coaches, which are taken out of service. The train ran between two NS traxx locos. Amsterdam Utrecht Maastricht Liège Namur Schaerbeek Antwerp Rotterdam. In Schaerbeek the train was met by new SNCB HLE 1701 and the last surviving SNCB HLE11 in red and yellow livery. Below a picture of the train between Liège and Namur (not by me, found on Facebook). ICR coaches never ran there, but besides their Bruxelles Amsterdam mission, they also were used on a tourist train between Amsterdam and the Ardennes via Maastrichtand Liège ; the southern terminus used to be Bastogne , Ettelbruck, or Luxembourg .

 

[popeter45]

feel strange seeing such high cliffs next to a dutch train

 

[EnriqueEspaña]

I've seen pictures of these coach sets with Driving Trailers, but when I look them up on YouTube, I only find them trailing the set or having a locomotive coupled in front of them. Did the DTs ever actually get any use for leading formations?

 

[Bemined]

They were used until 10 years ago, but they only worked with the old locomotives. They were never upgraded to work with TRAXX and ETCS, instead they switched to using a second locomotive.

 

[Trainbike46]

I've seen pictures of these coach sets with Driving Trailers, but when I look them up on YouTube, I only find them trailing the set or having a locomotive coupled in front of them. Did the DTs ever actually get any use for leading formations?

It was tried with the TRAXX locomotives, but there were issues that apparently weren't resolvable.

I think DTs were used with previous locomotives though? It's been many years since ICR has been in service with anything other than TRAXX though

 

[43096]

It was tried with the TRAXX locomotives, but there were issues that apparently weren't resolvable.

It must have been a pretty serious set of issues if the mitigation was to spend well over €50 million on more locos. It's entirely symptomatic of NS' utterly botched "strategy" for the high speed lines.

Must admit, I am no fan of the ICR stock. It's straight out of the 1970s or 1980s with the utilitarian interior with horrible plastic covered seats, poor interior layout and weird striped saloon ends. Worse still, their replacements are right out of the 1980s internally, too, with plastic covered seats in the same style as what went before. Utterly rancid.

 

[Halish Railway]

I think DTs were used with previous locomotives though? It's been many years since ICR has been in service with anything other than TRAXX though

They worked with SNCB Class 11 locomotives on Beneluxtrein services and NS Class 1600 and 1700 locomotives on domestic services. I believe the last time they would have been used would have been on the Eindhoven to The Hague services before the route was adjusted to use the high speed line and avoid Dordrecht.

 

[Bemined]

There were two different types of driving trailers which were not compatible with each other. The Amsterdam - Brussels had original driving trailers that worked with the Belgian locomotives. Domestic trains didn't have driving trailers initially, those were constructed later (using existing intermediate cars). Those worked with the domestic 1700 locomotives. They did indeed attempt to convert 2 of those to work with a TRAXX but it didn't work very well so they scrapped that project after just 2 prototypes. Buying extra locomotives might have been expensive, but those locomotives have a much higher selling value after 10 years than a converted driving trailer would have.

 

[43096]

There were two different types of driving trailers which were not compatible with each other. The Amsterdam - Brussels had original driving trailers that worked with the Belgian locomotives. Domestic trains didn't have driving trailers initially, those were constructed later (using existing intermediate cars). Those worked with the domestic 1700 locomotives. They did indeed attempt to convert 2 of those to work with a TRAXX but it didn't work very well so they scrapped that project after just 2 prototypes. Buying extra locomotives might have been expensive, but those locomotives have a much higher selling value after 10 years than a converted driving trailer would have.

NS did a sale-and-lease-back deal on 186001-045 with Akiem back in 2018 (the other locos used were already leased), presumably recognising they were likely to get a better price in 2018 than they would now as a) they would have been dumping 45 locos on the market and b) it made finding a new user Akiem's problem.

 

[MarcVD]

They did indeed attempt to convert 2 of those to work with a TRAXX but it didn't work very well so they scrapped that project after just 2 prototypes.

Belgian workshops knew how to do it, as they had to solve the same problem to make M4 and M5 driving trailers compatible with 18 series locomotives. The driving trailers used on Benelux service had exactly the same driving post (it was in fact installed in Belgium when those driving trailers were built). So SNCB proposed NS to do it, but NS did not want to pay for it.

 

[MisterT]

I guess you're talking about the Bs coaches, that ran with the NMBS/SNCB class 11 locomotives. Bemined is talking about the BDs coaches. Those are different trailers and different projects.
The BDs coaches were only used inside the Netherlands as driving trailers, as they were only compatible with the NS class 1700 locomotives.
As far as I know, there wasn't any involvement with the NMBS for the BDs test conversions. Also the test conversion was actually functional, but in the end, it was just deemed too expensive for the few years that those were supposed to run (at that time, the ICNG introduction to be complete in 2021, so the trailers would run 5 years at best and then send to scrap). In the long run, it was cheaper to call on the already existing Traxx contract with Bombardier for additional locomotives, as those would still have most of their value after just five years.

 

[MarcVD]

I guess you're talking about the Bs coaches, that ran with the NMBS/SNCB class 11 locomotives.

Yes, those ones :



(Photo Par Janderk1968, from Wikipedia)

 

[Bemined]

At some point in time they also used the DDAR driving trailers on ICR trains: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69195288@N07/6833696760

 

[185143]

Ahhh! That explains it then.

I passed this train (I think at Schaerbeek) on a Eurostar and noticed a lot of enthusiasts photting it. Wondered what was going on.

 

[Davester50]

Must admit, I am no fan of the ICR stock. It's straight out of the 1970s or 1980s with the utilitarian interior with horrible plastic covered seats, poor interior layout and weird striped saloon ends.

Dosen't have an InterCity feel, much more suburban, and I felt I was on the old Austrian CityShuttle stock.
Shame the replacement isn't much of an improvement.

 

[43096]

Dosen't have an InterCity feel, much more suburban, and I felt I was on the old Austrian CityShuttle stock.

The ÖBB CityShuttle stock is better IMHO.

Shame the replacement isn't much of an improvement.

The replacement is dire. Very, very unimpressed.

 

[rvdborgt]

Must admit, I am no fan of the ICR stock. It's straight out of the 1970s or 1980s with the utilitarian interior with horrible plastic covered seats, poor interior layout and weird striped saloon ends. Worse still, their replacements are right out of the 1980s internally, too, with plastic covered seats in the same style as what went before. Utterly rancid.

IMO ICR (and ICM) were the most comfortable domestic rolling stock NS had.

 

[AdamWW]

The replacement is dire. Very, very unimpressed.

Haven't been on one but if they're anything like the Romanian Coradia Streams I would agree.

 

[AlexNL]

As-built, the ICR coaching stock had orange benches with plasticky seats. During their midlife refurbishment (2001-2005) the benches were replaced by individual seats - yellow velvet in 2nd class, red leather in 1st.

When it became apparent that the new high-speed "Fyra" EMUs would not be ready in time, a subfleet of ICR coaches got another makeover called "Prio". The 2nd class seats were once again reupholstered, these got blue fabric seat covers.

After the Fyra project was abandoned, the entire ICR fleet got another overhaul to make them suitable for operations over the high speed line. This included technical changes, but NS also decided to once again reupholster the 2nd class seats. By that time, NS had decided that plasticky seat covers are preferable because these are much easier to clean. This has since been brought forward to the entire NS fleet.

Regarding the ICNG: in my opinion it's a good train for the role it fulfills. I wouldn't want to do a trip like Amsterdam - Berlin on one, but for domestic services and the fast service to Brussels it's perfectly adequate. The Netherlands is a small country, we simply do not have 4+ hour train journeys.

 

[superalbs]

Haven't been on one but if they're anything like the Romanian Coradia Streams I would agree.

At least the Dutch ones won't be used for 10hr journeys!

 

[STINT47]

ICNG is fine for the journeys they run on. They're not luxurious long distance stock but they don't run long distance routes. I did Brussels to Amsterdam the other day and it was fine for me. Certainly better than two hours on a Voyager or Hitachi 80X.

It would be nice if they went a bit faster. 200kph on a dedicated high speed line is a bit disappointing.