Transport for Wales Class 231 / 756 Stadler FLIRTs

[hwl]

Does anyone know what the situation is with the 231’s - are they going to be converted to also run on overhead electricity or not? (When on the CDF > Cheltenham run, they could use the wires as far as STJ).

From Jan 2025:

Establishing a secure connection ...

 

[J663738]

Does anyone know, why the PA announcements on both the 231's and the 756's are so poor. Both suffer from drop-outs when the conductor is making manual announcements.
I have mentioned it several times to the conductor when Penarth had the 231's a few years back and the response was 'yes we know'.
Still doing it on the 756's ? if they know its an issue, they why is it just ignored ???

If you _____ something _____ right.
You ____ __ ____ staff or text ____ ____ ____
On 6 _ 0 _ _ 6
See __ say __ sort __

 

[AdamWW]

Does anyone know, why the PA announcements on both the 231's and the 756's are so poor. Both suffer from drop-outs when the conductor is making manual announcements.
I have mentioned it several times to the conductor when Penarth had the 231's a few years back and the response was 'yes we know'.
Still doing it on the 756's ? if they know its an issue, they why is it just ignored ???

If you _____ something _____ right.
You ____ __ ____ staff or text ____ ____ ____
On 6 _ 0 _ _ 6
See __ say __ sort __

Don't think I've noticed that on 756s, but often there seems to be a different delay in different coaches causing an echo which makes it very hard to understand.

I suppose not being fixed doesn't mean it's been ignored. Maybe it's not easy.

 

[J663738]

Don't think I've noticed that on 756s, but often there seems to be a different delay in different coaches causing an echo which makes it very hard to understand.

I suppose not being fixed doesn't mean it's been ignored. Maybe it's not easy.

Its only when the announcement is made from the rear cab, when they used the pa by the doors they tend to talk very quietly into to it, so as not to hear their own voice coming back delayed, which if you have tried is next to impossible to speak against.

 

[chargesmith]

Does anyone know, why the PA announcements on both the 231's and the 756's are so poor. Both suffer from drop-outs when the conductor is making manual announcements.
I have mentioned it several times to the conductor when Penarth had the 231's a few years back and the response was 'yes we know'.
Still doing it on the 756's ? if they know its an issue, they why is it just ignored ???

If you _____ something _____ right.
You ____ __ ____ staff or text ____ ____ ____
On 6 _ 0 _ _ 6
See __ say __ sort __

I've heard this happen a few times.

My theory is that the old 150 PA speakers were so quiet that the staff needed to project their voice into them.

However when they do it on the new units it overloads the new PA system and temporarily clips the audio.

If that is what it is I'm sure they'll get it right eventually. There's a lot of new stuff on these units to get used to such as the air temperature which my wife complains about to me almost every time she gets the train to work.

 

[Logger79]

There's a lot of new stuff on these units to get used to such as the air temperature which my wife complains about to me almost every time she gets the train to work.

What's up with the air temperature?

 

[chargesmith]

What's up with the air temperature?

She just thinks it's too hot, especially early in the morning when they probably have the heat a bit higher, and unlike the 150s you can't open the window if you feel a little hot.

 

[tfw756rider]

My theory is that the old 150 PA speakers were so quiet that the staff needed to project their voice into them.

However when they do it on the new units it overloads the new PA system and temporarily clips the audio.

If that is what it is I'm sure they'll get it right eventually.

The 150s' speakers can actually get quite loud, but the frequency bandwidth is very narrow (the 150s lack the low-mid of the 231s/756s/197s/153s/158s, and the treble of the 231s/756s/197s, so it's all high-mid).

 

[J663738]

I did hear an announcement the other evening on a 756. The conductor went into to the rear cab, and all we got was "good evening ladies and gentlemen____________" you could hear in there still taking for an age, but that was all that came through. He came out after a minute, not knowing what he announced, it could have been; the train running fast to Glasgow due to a hijack or more likely take all you stuff with and mend the step (which there isn't) as you leave.
So, in this example the system just cut out, so is it something like a button needs to be fully pressed to activate the PA.

Joking aside, this is a real safety issue, not having a reliable PA system, for use by the driver or conductor, which would be required in an emergency.

 

[Cardiff123]

Well it looks like TfW have finally managed to get the Penarth line running exclusively with 756s all day today.

 

[Cardiff4]

Well it looks like TfW have finally managed to get the Penarth line running exclusively with 756s all day today.

In fairness to TfW they did say it would take until the end of September for this to happen. Lets hope it continues next week!

 

[Class 170101]

Given stadlers inability to even get 2 777s working together,I'd say its basically impossible that they will work

Given Stadler’s ability to get three 755s working together on mixed diesel and electric power, I’d say it is very possible they will work.

To be fair to @Northerngirl it took Stadler a fair while to get Class 755s to work in multiple.

 

[tigermonstera]

There's a FOI response from this year (link) which includes some notes about the 756. Pages 9-10 of the Driver Facilitator Guide appear to suggest that the 756 and 231 can be coupled, although the text is difficult to read.

 

[Cardiff123]

In fairness to TfW they did say it would take until the end of September for this to happen. Lets hope it continues next week!

I'm pretty sure TfW initially said the Penarth line would be all 756s "by the end of the summer"
Regardless its another step forward, and it just leaves Rhymney / Caerphilly - Barry Island / Bridgend, and Pontypridd to Cardiff Bay, as the last hold outs for the 150s on the Valleys.

 

[tfw756rider]

There's a FOI response from this year (link) which includes some notes about the 756. Pages 9-10 of the Driver Facilitator Guide appear to suggest that the 756 and 231 can be coupled, although the text is difficult to read.

Thanks for this I've done my best to read the tiny low-resolution text in the slide preview and type it here (starting from the third quote box):

Coupling Mixed Traction 231-756

A general overview of coupling mixed traction.

Coupling 756 and 231 units

The FLIRT Class 231 and 756 can be coupled together.

The 756 (master unit) should be placed into battery only mode prior to coupling.

Couple up as previous FLIRT coupling procedures.

The train configuration is then ??????? once coupling has been completed.

The diesel engines of the 231 will continue to run as normal provided the unit was running.

If the unit was shut down, it will need to be restarted via the TCMS.

Button 2 (diesel engines) will become available for use on TCMS screen 1 of the 756 (master unit) to restart the engines (231 only).

When the 231 is the master unit, all existing power sources of the 756 will remain in operation after coupling and buttons 1, 3 and 4 (pantograph, battery/diesel and battery only) will become operational from the 231 TCMS.

If stabling a coupled 756 and 231 on a charging road where charging/stabling mode is to be engaged, the units must be uncoupled first.

I hope that makes it a lot easier for people in here! If anyone could provide us with the one missing word, it would be much appreciated

Also, earlier on page 9, some information about which power sources are used and in what situations (albeit with redacted battery percentages, for whatever reason):

Introduction to on train power sources.

Explain that the batteries are the main source of power for the 756.

Under normal operation, the train will run in a combination of battery and OLE.

If no OLE is available, as soon as the first battery depletes to (redacted) %, the engine will automatically switch in to charge the batteries.

In practice the battery charge should never drop this low when running over a route with OLE, as it will be sufficiently topped up across the route.

The idea is that no diesel engines will be running over CVL routes North of Queen Street.

Other Modes (Degraded)
Combined Traction Batteries and generator.

This mode is activated by the driver if instructed to do so.

This enables the train to manage the battery levels when no OLE is expected to contribute to the battery recharging process.

In this situation, the battery will only be allowed to drop to (redacted) % charge before the engine switches in.

(Looks like one of the percentages is unobscured in one of the slides - 10%).

 

[Cardiff123]

Welsh Government are keen to publicise the fact that all 5 diagrams on the Penarth - Coryton / Caerphilly services are now booked as 756s. I think this is a bit premature, for as long as TfW has 150s available, it will still be too easy for 150s to turn up on some services, as happened today when the 0705 started off as a 150 and was then swapped later.

Brand-new electric trains running daily on the Coryton and Penarth lines | GOV.WALES

Customers travelling on the Coryton and Penarth lines are now enjoying the benefits of brand-new electric trains.

www.gov.wales

 

[John R]

Welsh Government are keen to publicise the fact that all 5 diagrams on the Penarth - Coryton / Caerphilly services are now booked as 756s. I think this is a bit premature, for as long as TfW has 150s available, it will still be too easy for 150s to turn up on some services, as happened today when the 0705 started off as a 150 and was then swapped later.

Brand-new electric trains running daily on the Coryton and Penarth lines | GOV.WALES

Customers travelling on the Coryton and Penarth lines are now enjoying the benefits of brand-new electric trains.

www.gov.wales

On the contrary I think it's entirely reasonable for the WG to publicise the fact that the scheduled daily service is now expected to be fully run by the new trains. Waiting for the very last 150 to be sent for scrap would be absurd.

 

[Dai Corner]

On the contrary I think it's entirely reasonable for the WG to publicise the fact that the scheduled daily service is now expected to be fully run by the new trains. Waiting for the very last 150 to be sent for scrap would be absurd.

But perhaps counterproductive with passengers on other routes who should have had shiny new trains by now but are still travelling in 40 year old sardine cans?

 

[MikePJ]

But perhaps counterproductive with passengers on other routes who should have had shiny new trains by now but are still travelling in 40 year old sardine cans?

By that logic you wouldn’t announce anything until everything was completed. Yes, there’ll be a bit of “where’s my new train” from those who haven’t got them yet, but showing that progress is being made is important. Worth noting too that Penarth line passengers got new trains, then went back to knackered old ones, sometimes just a single 153, and then now have new electric units. There’s always some sour grapes, you can’t avoid that!

 

[Cardiff123]

Welsh Government Transport Minister Ken Skates, "interviewing" passengers onboard the 756s on the Penarth & Coryton lines.
Anyone would think we're months away from an election campaign...........

https://x.com/WGTransport/status/1973387463189029117

 

[AdamWW]

Welsh Government Transport Minister Ken Skates, "interviewing" passengers onboard the 756s on the Penarth & Coryton lines.
Anyone would think we're months away from an election campaign.........(I'll let you decide if these interviews were a set-up)

https://x.com/WGTransport/status/1973387463189029117

I wonder if it's a coincidence that for a few days now they've been allowing trains to continue to Coryton even if they come on to the branch late?

 

[Cardiff123]

I wonder if it's a coincidence that for a few days now they've been allowing trains to continue to Coryton even if they come on to the branch late?

Possibly. The Coryton line is also in a marginal constituency...........

 

[tfw756rider]

All I'll comment on is the amber destination display at the start - that in particular must be very early video footage, as all the Transport for Wales Stadler trains (231s, 398s and 756s) were originally going to have amber destination displays, but they ended up having white ones very late on.

 

[AdamWW]

All I'll comment on is the amber destination display at the start - that in particular must be very early video footage, as all the Transport for Wales Stadler trains (231s, 398s and 756s) were originally going to have amber destination displays, but they ended up having white ones very late on.

I think that's actually red.

The screens normally show white text but they are actually capable of multiple colours.

I saw one yesterday with "CLASS 756" in red and the destination below in white.

 

[tfw756rider]

I think that's actually red.

The screens normally show white text but they are actually capable of multiple colours.

I saw one yesterday with "CLASS 756" in red and the destination below in white.

View attachment 189462

Wow, thanks for that - I had no idea!

 

[Envoy]

Welsh Government Transport Minister Ken Skates, "interviewing" passengers onboard the 756s on the Penarth & Coryton lines.
Anyone would think we're months away from an election campaign...........

https://x.com/WGTransport/status/1973387463189029117

I bet the passengers don't know who he is!

 

[Daniel Boone]

I bet the passengers don't know who he is!

Do most people know who Heidi Alexander is?

 

[AdamWW]

Seem to be two 150's on the Penarth/Caerphilly/Coryton diagrams today.

 

[EveningStarr]

756s into passenger service to Barry Island for the first time today, starting with 756006 on 2K02 to Caerphilly. This will likely be the only diagram for the time being, maybe a few late night ones. Currently not permitted north of Caerphilly. As I understand it, this is the same for both 756/0s and 756/1s. Although not diagrammed AFAIK, there have been some /1s go to CPH on late night services.

 

[Adlee Turner]

756s into passenger service to Barry Island for the first time today, starting with 756006 on 2K02 to Caerphilly. This will likely be the only diagram for the time being, maybe a few late night ones. Currently not permitted north of Caerphilly. As I understand it, this is the same for both 756/0s and 756/1s. Although not diagrammed AFAIK, there have been some /1s go to CPH on late night services.

The 756/0s + /1s have been authorised into passenger service between Cardiff Central and Barry Island. However, they will only run as per diagrammed working only. Once further testing has been completed along the route with the 756s, that will allow more flexibility with the running of the 756s on the route.