Are SWR's on board announcements excessive?

[jfollows]

I went Waterloo to Portsmouth on a semi-fast with lots of stops recently and didn’t find the announcements excessive, but maybe I tuned most of them out.

 

[JamesT]

Possibly the most useless and widely ignored announcement I have seen is on some buses locally, which have started announcing immediately after the bell rings, "Bus stopping. Please remain in your seat until the bus has come to a complete stop."

The company can't seriously want everyone to do that - the buses, in common with most in this country, have only one door right at the front, and if they had to wait at every stop for people to get up from their seats and walk the length of the bus it would make their already pretty hopeless timekeeping significantly worse...

I suspect they'll take the poor timekeeping over having to deal with passengers being injured or even dying from falling with the bus in motion.

 

[Siimo]

Surely it must be easily possible to invent noise-cancelling headphones that can be programmed to blank out or overplay a specific sound or sequence of sounds - and not just blathering announcements, this would be useful for crying babies and the power tools that Mr Gammon insists on using every Sunday. Record the announcement and then instruct the device to play, say, a calming string quartet or birdsong over it in your ear instead when it detects it (or use it as a form of advanced noise cancelling if already doing so). You'd still hear actually important messages and real people.

 

[abn444]

I suspect they'll take the poor timekeeping over having to deal with passengers being injured or even dying from falling with the bus in motion.

Can't be that much of a risk otherwise standing would be banned

 

[DelW]

On a recent evening trip back from Portsmouth Harbour towards London, friends and I gave up trying to have any sort of conversation until after Havant. We'd missed the last semifast train so were on an (almost) all stations service. The sequence after every stop was something like

• Announcement of what train we were on
• Automated announcement of all stops to Waterloo
• Automated announcement of all those stops with short platforms
• Automated announcement of which coach to get off from at those platforms
• Repeat by guard of all the above but louder

If that hadn't got us as far as the next station, we then got "you must have a ticket ...", threats of penalty fares, "see it ..." etc. to fill in the gap.

Then at the next station, the whole rigmarole started again.

The train was almost empty - I think there were two other people in our coach - but it was impossible to talk over the racket.

 

[pompeyfan]

On a recent evening trip back from Portsmouth Harbour towards London, friends and I gave up trying to have any sort of conversation until after Havant. We'd missed the last semifast train so were on an (almost) all stations service. The sequence after every stop was something like

• Announcement of what train we were on
• Automated announcement of all stops to Waterloo
• Automated announcement of all those stops with short platforms
• Automated announcement of which coach to get off from at those platforms
• Repeat by guard of all the above but louder

If that hadn't got us as far as the next station, we then got "you must have a ticket ...", threats of penalty fares, "see it ..." etc. to fill in the gap.

Then at the next station, the whole rigmarole started again.

The train was almost empty - I think there were two other people in our coach - but it was impossible to talk over the racket.

I’m sorry but that’s simply not true. SWR PIS only lists the entire calling pattern twice after the guard or driver puts the code in the system. Automated short platform announcements only play once on approach to a short platform, and only play in the carriages that are not accommodated.

 

[DelW]

I’m sorry but that’s simply not true. SWR PIS only lists the entire calling pattern twice after the guard or driver puts the code in the system. Automated short platform announcements only play once on approach to a short platform, and only play in the carriages that are not accommodated.

I was trying to block it out, not take notes, but we got the short platform stuff for multiple stations repeated multiple times. We were in the middle of an 8 coach set, so it wasn't relevant to our coach anyway. Maybe something was faulty, it did seem even worse than usual.

The system can definitely be faulty - last year on a train into Waterloo I was told to "move forward from this coach" (because of a short platform) when approaching every station, including Woking, Clapham Junction and Waterloo. I was already in the front coach!

 

[fgwrich]

I was trying to block it out, not take notes, but we got the short platform stuff for multiple stations repeated multiple times. We were in the middle of an 8 coach set, so it wasn't relevant to our coach anyway. Maybe something was faulty, it did seem even worse than usual.

The system can definitely be faulty - last year on a train into Waterloo I was told to "move forward from this coach" (because of a short platform) when approaching every station, including Woking, Clapham Junction and Waterloo. I was already in the front coach!

It certainly seems to be more common. A friend of mine and I were travelling on 450067 last week on the 1612 (ex 1455 from Portsmouth Harbour to Waterloo), front coach, and that was advising “Passengers wishing to leave at the next station must move forward from this part of the train”.

The 444s also seem to be hanging on certain stations of late too. Travelling on an ex Weymouth service last Thursday, i was gleefully advised by Elinor Hamilton that the Next Station is Brockenhurst. (At Southampton Central). Then at Airport Parkway, Winchester, Basingstoke… where I left it. It did require a manual announcement from the guard who was rather cheery herself and I’d rather have listened to her do the announcements.

 

[Bikeman78]

Can't be that much of a risk otherwise standing would be banned

Beat me to it. The same applies to tube trains. They often brake ferociously. It's down to the individual to know if they can walk or stand when the vehicle is moving. If they can't, they don't need an announcement to tell them.

 

[JamesT]

Beat me to it. The same applies to tube trains. They often brake ferociously. It's down to the individual to know if they can walk or stand when the vehicle is moving. If they can't, they don't need an announcement to tell them.

It was noticeable that the buses in Oxford gained the announcement after this incident https://www.thisisoxfordshire.co.uk/news/24709624.transport-groups-urgent-plea-oxford-bus-tragedy/

The 37-year-old died in hospital last Thursday (October 31) after he suffered serious injuries in a fall on a bus near the Westgate Centre in Castle Street on October 26.

 

[Bikeman78]

It was noticeable that the buses in Oxford gained the announcement after this incident https://www.thisisoxfordshire.co.uk/news/24709624.transport-groups-urgent-plea-oxford-bus-tragedy/

The point stands. They can't tell you to remain seated until the bus stops, and also allow standing passengers. It's completely illogical.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

It will come as a great pleasure to many on this thread that the onboard announcements on SWR are being modified over the coming few weeks, which includes the removal of the priority seating announcement and the removal of out-of-station walking interchange announcements, along with a tone adjustment (and eventually the removal) of the abusive behaviour and penalty fare announcements.

 

[setdown]

I've heard the new announcements a couple of times this week. Removal would be better, but the new tone is welcome. Something along the lines of "in fairness to all passengers..you must hold a valid ticket for this train..thank you for your understanding".

If they're eventually to be removed, I wonder why they just don't remove them immediately, instead of re-recording them?

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

I've heard the new announcements a couple of times this week. Removal would be better, but the new tone is welcome. Something along the lines of "in fairness to all passengers..you must hold a valid ticket for this train..thank you for your understanding".

If they're eventually to be removed, I wonder why they just don't remove them immediately, instead of re-recording them?

The idea is to remove them from the automated announcements but keep them in the system as a manual option for the guard to play when necessary, so I suspect that'll be the reason why they've gone to the effort of re-recording them.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

Having travelled a bit i find quite a few operators are just excessive.

If I hear see it say it sorted one more time I'll scream

 

[DelW]

It will come as a great pleasure to many on this thread that the onboard announcements on SWR are being modified over the coming few weeks, which includes the removal of the priority seating announcement and the removal of out-of-station walking interchange announcements, along with a tone adjustment (and eventually the removal) of the abusive behaviour and penalty fare announcements.

I'm unsure what a tone adjustment will be, but I hope it involves replacing those announcements which sound positively oozing with delight at the prospect of applying penalty fares and £100 fines to passengers. I doubt that they were recorded by a member of SWR management, but they contribute to an impression that the company not only distrusts but even despises its passengers. I'm sure there are passengers for whom that's appropriate, but they're a very small proportion of those who are bombarded with these hostile sounding messages on every journey.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

I'm unsure what a tone adjustment will be, but I hope it involves replacing those announcements which sound positively oozing with delight at the prospect of applying penalty fares and £100 fines to passengers. I doubt that they were recorded by a member of SWR management, but they contribute to an impression that the company not only distrusts but even despises its passengers. I'm sure there are passengers for whom that's appropriate, but they're a very small proportion of those who are bombarded with these hostile sounding messages on every journey.

Indeed, it will be adjustment to a less aggressive tone (at least according to the internal source which I quote from), following recent customer feedback.

 

[DelW]

Indeed, it will be adjustment to a less aggressive tone (at least according to the internal source which I quote from), following recent customer feedback.

That sounds good, I'll look forward to the new versions. It's sad that Celia Drummond (née Humphris) is no longer around to record them though.

 

[Gourlish]

I've noticed recently that South Western Railway seems to have taken on board announcements to a new level. On some journeys, there is barely a moment of quiet. Safety reminders, ticket checks,fine warnings, CCTV messages, suspicious luggage alerts, ...often repeated by both the automated system and the guard.

It feels constant and, to be honest, incredibly draining. I understand the need for safety messages and basic updates, but this is beyond reasonable. It makes the journey feel more like a public broadcast system than a train ride. At times, I have genuinely thought of 1984.

Am I overreacting, or are others finding this as frustrating as I do?

I haven't travelled with SWR, but on GWR's services the announcements on a typical afternoon service from Bristol Temple Meads to Swindon are along the lines of the following. The travel time between each station is just over 10 minutes:

Temple Meads to Bath Spa:

1. A live announcement about the service about 5 minutes prior to departure
2. An automated destination announcement as the train leaves the station...
3. ...immediately followed by an automated "See It, Say It, Sorted" one
4. A couple of minutes later a live announcement about catering
5. An automated station approachment announcement

Bath Spa to Chippenham:

1. An automated destination announcement as the train leaves the station
2. Sometimes one or two live ones, usually complementing the automated destination/approachment announcements
3. An automated station approachment announcement

Chippenham to Swindon:

1. An automated destination announcement as the train leaves the station
2. Sometimes one or two live ones, usually complementing the automated destination/approachment announcements
3. An automated station approachment announcement

There will sometimes be no live ones, and sometimes a handful more than listed here (eg: additional catering or delay reason announcements), but GWR's announcements (certainly on their Hitachi InterCity Express trains) don't feel too extensive to me, and they're also played at a level that allows you to ignore them by listening to music through headphones with decent noise cancellation (the automated ones are also relayed in text form on the displays at the ends of each carriage). I'm guessing SWR have more of them.

I don't think I've ever heard a standalone ticket check announcement on GWR's trains (sometimes the guard will say on a live announcement while leaving a station to have tickets ready). Their trains have prerecorded no smoking, CCTV and unattended luggage (different from See It/Say It Sorted) announcements but these only ever seem to be played in error, with them usually cutting out half way through on the occasions that they are played. I've never heard an announcement warning about fines onboard GWR's trains, even though they participate in the ticket fine system.

 

[DelW]

Yesterday I was travelling on a 10 coach 444 from Waterloo. The automated display gave completely wrong information about location on the train which was going to split at Bournemouth. So the guard had to make manual announcements which were then followed by automated announcements contradicting what he had just said and suggesting that all 10 coaches were going to Poole. Was the driver unable to turn off the automated ? Previously I have travelled on a train, which, because of disruption was non-stop to Waterloo but the automated announcements still called the stops.

Just had a manual announcement on a 450, guard telling everyone to ignore all automated ones. Sure enough, it's been followed by several auto announcements giving wrong location, wrong stopping pattern, and wrong next station.

It's bad enough assaulting our ears with them normally, it's even worse when they're nonsense and have to be manually corrected.

 

[lookapigeon]

Just had a manual announcement on a 450, guard telling everyone to ignore all automated ones. Sure enough, it's been followed by several auto announcements giving wrong location, wrong stopping pattern, and wrong next station.

It's bad enough assaulting our ears with them normally, it's even worse when they're nonsense and have to be manually corrected.

It's definitely an SWR thing...I was on a train to Hampton Court that had left Waterloo late and mid way decided we'd be skipping various stations to get to HC (no doubt to keep to the timetable and also avoid paying delay-repay). This was on one of the new SWR Arterio trains, but the automated PA kept announcing that we were stopping at the next station, and then it switched to saying this train's route has been amended and saying it'll be skipping the announced station and then saying the next station the train will call at.
Is there no inhibit button/function for the tannoy? Can the guard not just press the button as if to make an annoucement but keep silent or cover the microphone when the automated one kicks in, so at least it shuts it up?

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Is there no inhibit button/function for the tannoy? Can the guard not just press the button as if to make an annoucement but keep silent or cover the microphone when the automated one kicks in, so at least it shuts it up?

Yes, just pressing the PA button so as to make a manual announcement will override any automated announcement which is playing.

Alternatively, there is a particular PIS code which can be inputted which will not play any automated announcements whatsoever leaving it down to the guard to make manual announcements as appropriate. Unsure if this works on the 701s as the PIS system is different and primarily the driver's responsibility.

 

[I_am_Nobody]

Yes, just pressing the PA button so as to make a manual announcement will override any automated announcement which is playing.

Alternatively, there is a particular PIS code which can be inputted which will not play any automated announcements whatsoever leaving it down to the guard to make manual announcements as appropriate. Unsure if this works on the 701s as the PIS system is different and primarily the driver's responsibility.

Checked with my friend, they said drivers can mute the PIS on the Aventra stock (701s), but as you say it is all driver function so getting them to do it is… driver dependent. Guards have extremely minimal control.

They also said that due to “faults inherent with the cheap system installed” that the PA mute trick sometimes fails on the 701s. On other stock, there are codes available that don’t play announcements as you said. And also apparently the Desiro system fights back if you override them. They cut you off when the auto announcement was scheduled to end, apparently! Poor Guards.

 

[DMckduck]

701s seem to be next level in terms of announcement overload.

Constantly announcing the calling pattern and even more bizarre poorly timed waffling approaching destinations.

 

[talldave]

701s seem to be next level in terms of announcement overload.

Constantly announcing the calling pattern and even more bizarre poorly timed waffling approaching destinations.

This morning's insanity involves the guard interrupting the automated stopping announcement as we left Clapham Junction for Reading with the usual tedious "I'm in the middle of train" waffle ending with "the next station is Clapham Junction" - lots of sighs from announcement weary passengers!

Fortunately the train managed an uninterrupted Richmond announcement before the guard came on again to reiterate Richmond.

 

[Vexed]

Just today the company sent out an internal brief saying announcements essentially can now be done at the guard’s discretion (aside from the important ones like attachments/detachment details, short platforms etc), and no more ‘principal station announcements.’ There have been countless complaints about the amount of announcements SWR guards make, but until today there was a ‘script’ and a list of standards that must be met. So really one can’t be blaming the guards when they are getting checked and assessed on this very regularly. But from now on, there should/will be much less talk from the guard unless it’s actually essential, or they love the sound of their own voice a bit too much… I’m sure there are many on this forum that will love the sound of this…

In the Class 701 intoduction thread it seems a brief has finally gone round saying that staff no longer need to repeat all of the automated announcemnts. Great news!

 

[talldave]

In the Class 701 intoduction thread it seems a brief has finally gone round saying that staff no longer need to repeat all of the automated announcemnts. Great news!

Wonderful news! I'm praying that all members of staff take note. And yes, "I'm in coach 10!!", I'm referring to you !!

 

[w11_supremecy]

Wonderful news! I'm praying that all members of staff take note. And yes, "I'm in coach 10!!", I'm referring to you !!

I personally think that is totally okay, it’s good for passengers to know where they can find the guard if they need to speak to them - for example when the train is extremely busy and the guard has no choice but to be in the middle/rear cab or to stay by a particular coach. Visibility is always a good thing IMO and shouldn’t be frowned upon, but I do agree with the general sentiment however.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

I think I'd rather hear from the guard than the automation, but not both. The alleged announcement simplification hasn't stopped them introducing even more irritating 61016 noise pollution - "that's 6 101 6" - with the introduction "THIS IS THE BRITISH TRANSPORT POLICE". Er, no, it's not. And it seems to be every 15 minutes. I'm surprised guards get a moment to talk with all the other noise going on

 

[w11_supremecy]

I think I'd rather hear from the guard than the automation, but not both. The alleged announcement simplification hasn't stopped them introducing even more irritating 61016 noise pollution - "that's 6 101 6" - with the introduction "THIS IS THE BRITISH TRANSPORT POLICE". Er, no, it's not. And it seems to be every 15 minutes. I'm surprised guards get a moment to talk with all the other noise going on

Agreed. It's the duplication that is the issue, but not many are aware that SWR guards were told to be making all these announcements, and that they would be assessed and checked very regularly - even discreetly at times. So you have the train making automated announcements all the time, as well as the poor guards - who have to stick to the script to avoid being told off - making more announcements on top of this. Nearly everyone doesn't want to be speaking so much so frequently. Literally a lose-lose situation for everyone, but most importantly for the passengers. Things should change for the better at least moving forwards.