Should train drivers require a driving licence?

[Sorcerer]

This was something that I thought of recently upon viewing London North Western Railway's website page about train drivers. Among the list of requirements was a full driving licence.

Who can apply​

To be eligible, you must:

• Be aged 20 or over.
• Be between 5’2” and 6’4” tall (for safety reasons).
• Have full colour vision. Applicants who have had laser eye surgery may apply if they can provide a surgeon’s letter confirming healing and stability.
• Have completed at least 9 years of education (primary and secondary)
• Live within 60 minutes of the depot or vacancy location.
• Hold a full driving licence and have access to a vehicle.
• Be willing to take a full medical exam, including drug and alcohol testing

I thought this was interesting because while other TOCs require you to live within a certain travel time of your depots without public transport, they don't explicitly say that they require you to have a full driving licence or have access to a vehicle. Is LNR simply saying an unwritten industry rule out loud, or is this a unique standard for them as a train operating company?

I understand that the expectation is to be able to reach your depot for booking on without reliance on public transport, which will usually require your own transport by default, but in this instance there is also the possibility for someone to use a bicycle or e-bike to get to work, or if they live close enough possibly even walking to their depot. Actually requiring a licence and access to a vehicle seems like an oddly specific standard that seems a little bit unnecessary (though I am hesitant to say discriminatory).

So the question here is, should train drivers be required to hold a driving licence and have access to a vehicle, or should the usual requirement of being able to reach your booking on point without any regard for how you do it remain the standard? Right now I believe in the latter since it still sets a standard while also offering some degree of flexibility. I think as long as you can prove you'll be able to reach the depot within the required time that it shouldn't disqualify you from the job assuming you meet all the other requirements.

 

[charles123]

I got kicked out of LNER recruitment for Newcastle a few years back for not having a driving licence, they did however say that they don't require a licence for London, im guessing because of night buses etc. I remember someone on a forum at the time saying Newcastle drivers had to drive company vehicles as part of their duties.

 

[Efini92]

Normally it’s the freight companies that require a driving licence as there’s times when they are required to drive a work vehicle to or from the train.
Without that requirement, I’d say no, driving a car and a train are completely different.

 

[RiverDon]

I wasn't asked at any stage in the recruitment whether or not I have a driving licence. Maybe they correctly assumed from my previous jobs listed on my application that I do but the question itself was never actually asked. Just looked at the downloaded copy of my application and the question was just 'Will you be able to reach your chosen depot from home within 45 minutes?'

 

[NorthernTech]

If you work at a particular location/depot etc, then like any job in or outside of the railway, you should be able to get there for your shift/start time. Yes, on the railway, you can travel into work via the railway itself, but possibly not on the earliest shift, or home from the latest, or none if there is a problem with the line/train you were planning to travel to work on.

So unless you are prepared in advance with a lift or a taxi, then I’d say you should have both a driving licence and an actual car to drive! Having the ability to drive doesn’t mean you have a car also!!

I suppose from a companies point of view, despite the costs involved in employment, if you have times where you were late or unable to get to work, you’d be in a process that would likely see you leaving.

 

[Sorcerer]

So far it sounds like this is a uniquely London Northwestern thing, but I can now somewhat understand the requirement if we're talking a freight company. However, considering that a car is a huge expense for many people, I think that for a passenger train operator having the option to walk or bike would be ideal. On a personal level though, while I would use a bike if I didn't have a car, I definitely wouldn't feel too comfortable with arranging lifts or taxis/Ubers/Lyfts since you're then reliant on someone else to get you to work which even isn't really desirable in any job really, much less one with the shifts of a train driver.

 

[357]

When I had my interview with c2c they asked me if I have a driving licence - I said no, one of the managers interviewing seemed to be unable to comprehend that I lived a 15 minute walk from the depot and I still have the impression she couldn't comprehend someone walking for 15 minutes ....

 

[Krokodil]

If you work at a particular location/depot etc, then like any job in or outside of the railway, you should be able to get there for your shift/start time. Yes, on the railway, you can travel into work via the railway itself, but possibly not on the earliest shift, or home from the latest, or none if there is a problem with the line/train you were planning to travel to work on.

So unless you are prepared in advance with a lift or a taxi, then I’d say you should have both a driving licence and an actual car to drive! Having the ability to drive doesn’t mean you have a car also!!

I haven't owned a car for several years now. Had no difficulty getting to/from my depot. Not everyone lives 20+ miles away, some of us live within either walking or cycling distance.

 

[Flange Squeal]

If you work at a particular location/depot etc, then like any job in or outside of the railway, you should be able to get there for your shift/start time. Yes, on the railway, you can travel into work via the railway itself, but possibly not on the earliest shift, or home from the latest, or none if there is a problem with the line/train you were planning to travel to work on.

So unless you are prepared in advance with a lift or a taxi, then I’d say you should have both a driving licence and an actual car to drive! Having the ability to drive doesn’t mean you have a car also!!

At my depot we have quite a number of staff who live within around 5-15 minutes walk from the depot. Quite a few traincrew depots, certainly in the south east of England, are located in residential areas.

If your address at the time of applying is like them, and your operator doesn’t require you to drive a company vehicle around like freight operators often do (I can’t off the top of my head think of any mention on this forum before of any passenger operators that do?), then I don’t see any reason why it should be a requirement for applicants to have a driving licence and own vehicle.

At one of our depots the walk from some peoples houses to the traincrew depot is actually shorter than the walk from the traincrew depot down to the carriage sidings they then go to get their trains from after signing on!

 

[choochoochoo]

At my depot we have quite a number of staff who live within around 5-15 minutes walk from the depot. Quite a few traincrew depots, certainly in the south east of England, are located in residential areas.

If your address at the time of applying is like them, and your operator doesn’t require you to drive a company vehicle around like freight operators often do (I can’t off the top of my head think of any mention on this forum before of any passenger operators that do?), then I don’t see any reason why it should be a requirement for applicants to have a driving licence and own vehicle.

At one of our depots the walk from some peoples houses to the traincrew depot is actually shorter than the walk from the traincrew depot down to the carriage sidings they then go to get their trains from after signing on!

Living so close to the depot must be great on the days you're as required / spare !!

 

[irish_rail]

I would argue insisting on a car is borderline discrimination. As others have pointed out, there are plenty of ways to get to work, and what if you live next door to your workplace? Heard of this on the freight side,but until now, never on the passenger side. Seems like the kind of nonsense that will be quietly dropped later on.

 

[jfollows]

My good friend Peter, who posts here occasionally, was a freight guard, passenger guard, senior conductor, driver & timetable planner and - to my knowledge - still does not have a driving licence. It was and is irrelevant, unless of course someone is applying for a remote job that might require driving to.
Making it mandatory for other reasons seems like nonsense to me.

 

[Economist]

I'd be quite happy having it as a requirement for new starters if we could opt-out of company-funded taxis and drive company pool cars instead, as part of a productivity-related pay deal. There would of course have to be a derogation for people who were already in the company who didn't have driving licences and an option for taxis (with a reduced salary) for staff who got a driving ban.

 

[Deepgreen]

I believe it should be for the candidate to decide whether they can travel to their place of work when required. Driving is an option but not essential.

 

[Taunton]

From the (slightly) outside world, having a driving licence is nowadays just a part of competent adult life. Just like adequate academic achievements, being lucid in speech, etc. Quite how one can be competent to drive a train, but not an individual motor vehicle on the road, is something of a disconnect.

 

[greatkingrat]

I'd be quite happy having it as a requirement for new starters if we could opt-out of company-funded taxis and drive company pool cars instead, as part of a productivity-related pay deal. There would of course have to be a derogation for people who were already in the company who didn't have driving licences and an option for taxis (with a reduced salary) for staff who got a driving ban.

That seems like it would be a logistical nightmare to make sure the cars were in the right place at the right time, and probably would end up costing more than the taxis.

 

[jfollows]

From the (slightly) outside world, having a driving licence is nowadays just a part of competent adult life. Just like adequate academic achievements, being lucid in speech, etc. Quite how one can be competent to drive a train, but not an individual motor vehicle on the road, is something of a disconnect.

I don’t think that’s true.
When I was younger, having a driving licence was a rite of passage, I failed my test at 17 but passed on the next attempt at 18. In the 1970s.
But today the cost of insurance means that many people no longer bother. I don’t see that having a driving licence ought to be a requirement for a job, unless the job clearly requires it of course.
The world has changed since I was 17.

 

[choochoochoo]

From the (slightly) outside world, having a driving licence is nowadays just a part of competent adult life. Just like adequate academic achievements, being lucid in speech, etc. Quite how one can be competent to drive a train, but not an individual motor vehicle on the road, is something of a disconnect.

I’d disagree. Why should someone undergo the expense of learning to drive if they have no need to.

I know airline pilots who don’t have a driving licence so it’s nothing to do with competence.

 

[Krokodil]

From the (slightly) outside world, having a driving licence is nowadays just a part of competent adult life. Just like adequate academic achievements, being lucid in speech, etc. Quite how one can be competent to drive a train, but not an individual motor vehicle on the road, is something of a disconnect.

Nonsense. This isn't some car-dependent hell in North America. There are plenty of places around the UK where one can easily manage without a car.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Not a requirement at Northern. They ask how you'll get to work within 45 mins and as long as you show you can without relying on public transport they're not bothered how.

 

[Economist]

That seems like it would be a logistical nightmare to make sure the cars were in the right place at the right time, and probably would end up costing more than the taxis.

Getting the cars from A to B could be a task completed either by whoever was sitting spare at the time out of any grade who had signed up, or the company could have one or two dedicated driving staff to ferry them.

At my TOC we have drivers, train managers, caterers and cleaners and most of the journeys at my depot are to a specific location in the morning and returning from it in the evening.

 

[Sheridan]

Getting the cars from A to B could be a task completed either by whoever was sitting spare at the time out of any grade who had signed up, or the company could have one or two dedicated driving staff to ferry them.

At my TOC we have drivers, train managers, caterers and cleaners and most of the journeys at my depot are to a specific location in the morning and returning from it in the evening.

How would driving a road vehicle factor into fatigue calculations and things like that? I can imagine some areas where the same journey would differ wildly depending on the time of day and the season.

 

[jubilee_line]

From the (slightly) outside world, having a driving licence is nowadays just a part of competent adult life. Just like adequate academic achievements, being lucid in speech, etc. Quite how one can be competent to drive a train, but not an individual motor vehicle on the road, is something of a disconnect.

It's not a matter of competence; I'm fully competent (and actually still hold a valid driving licence in my country of origin, where driving is sadly necessary). I enjoy living in city centres, so I'm close to my depot, and I vastly prefer to walk or cycle everywhere within reach and take the train anywhere long-distance. I have absolutely no desire to own a car and I see them as nothing but an expensive nuisance. How does this make me not a competent adult?

 

[75A]

At my depot we have quite a number of staff who live within around 5-15 minutes walk from the depot. Quite a few traincrew depots, certainly in the south east of England, are located in residential areas.

If your address at the time of applying is like them, and your operator doesn’t require you to drive a company vehicle around like freight operators often do (I can’t off the top of my head think of any mention on this forum before of any passenger operators that do?), then I don’t see any reason why it should be a requirement for applicants to have a driving licence and own vehicle.

At one of our depots the walk from some peoples houses to the traincrew depot is actually shorter than the walk from the traincrew depot down to the carriage sidings they then go to get their trains from after signing on!

When I started as a Secondman @ Brighton in the late 70's I'd walk from my flat to the Depot, no, point in starting the car up driving half a mile and then walking in from the Station car park.

 

[357]

the company could have one or two dedicated driving staff to ferry them.

most of the journeys at my depot are to a specific location in the morning and returning from it in the evening.

A car is an expensive asset to have sitting around.

I think we could use the dedicated staff driving them, and the vehicle, in-between those morning and evening trips to take anybody, anywhere, and make money from it.

We can call them "taxis".

 

[Sorcerer]

So it really does sound like having a requirement for a candidate to hold a full driving licence and have access to a vehicle is unnecessary because of how little it affects one's ability to do the job. Being able to reach the depot within the hour is about the closest it'll get to that and even then there are alternatives. It's not like something such as a delivery driver or emergency service worker where much of the job might require you to actually drive on the road.

I'd almost even suggest that if train companies require you to have a licence then they should either provide company cars (which as said above is something of an expensive asset to have lying around most of the time) or the driver's salary should reflect that requirement. For many in the UK, cars are the second largest living expense that depreciates in value, so if you're going to require one for a job where it won't be used it should at least be covered somewhat.

 

[Turtle]

So it really does sound like having a requirement for a candidate to hold a full driving licence and have access to a vehicle is unnecessary because of how little it affects one's ability to do the job. Being able to reach the depot within the hour is about the closest it'll get to that and even then there are alternatives. It's not like something such as a delivery driver or emergency service worker where much of the job might require you to actually drive on the road.

I'd almost even suggest that if train companies require you to have a licence then they should either provide company cars (which as said above is something of an expensive asset to have lying around most of the time) or the driver's salary should reflect that requirement. For many in the UK, cars are the second largest living expense that depreciates in value, so if you're going to require one for a job where it won't be used it should at least be covered somewhat.

Quite apart from the car question, does anyone think the educational requirement is rather strange at 9 years in total. Assuming 6 years in primary 3 years in secondary is unlikely to reach GCSE level.

 

[Sorcerer]

Quite apart from the car question, does anyone think the educational requirement is rather strange at 9 years in total. Assuming 6 years in primary 3 years in secondary is unlikely to reach GCSE level.

Maths and English is the basic requirement for any jobs, and I remember Avanti wanting ICT if I remember correctly. But I never did question the nine years requirement so I didn't even realise that it wouldn't reach GCSE level starting from Year 1, so I assume they are only counting from Year 3/4. Interestingly when I applied for Avanti they said that anyone who didn't have the educational requirements would be given a functional skills course.

 

[185]

Have asked the question about this and I'm told the webpage was typed by someone new, possibly on the graduate manager scheme, and they are in the process of reviewing this text.

 

[Horizon22]

Should they? It really depends. You may well be rostered to bring the first train off the depot and there are no buses nearby. Now, somebody could rely on taxis but it's certainly a risk. So must you have one? No. But I would suggest many would see it as a preferable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Sep 2025 ==

I would argue insisting on a car is borderline discrimination.

It is nowhere near.