Or the photographer had pre-set the focus and was taking that shot of whatever emerged, and only noticed the chap reading when he reviewed the picture. Presumably there will be some evidence of whether the train had stopped, which FGW will examine; till then suspension is correct and enhances the profession's reputation.
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Train driver photographed reading newspaper
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mallard
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Of course it has to be investigated properly. I was simply pointing out how "perfect" the image looks. Clearly a "serious" photographer. Pre-set focus aside, motion blur would be expected, but look at it! Even the locomotive's leading wheels are completely blur free, the plants by the track don't seem to be affected by draft, there is no exhaust, there is absolutely nothing in the picture to suggest movement.
Sure, it could be a lucky shot by a talented photographer, but I doubt it. Looks far more like someone spotted the driver reading while his train was stationary for whatever reason and decided it would be a funny shot. Wrong person sees the "funny" shot and realises that newspapers will pay money for it and this is where we end up.
As per what a few people have said, we will have to see if anything transpires in the coming days. Getting a picture of a train at speed without blur is perfectly possible though, with the correct equipment and correct settings. I took a photo of a Voyager passing through Tamworth the other day and the camera almost stopped the train and that was at very close distance (ie train passing through the upper level platform with me against the waiting room wall) and the camera was set to auto so probably didn't use that high a shutter speed given how dull the platforms there can be under the canopies. So given the right lighting conditions (which at the time of day it was, would be possible) then it is perfectly possible to "stop" a moving train
The other day, I observed a LM service between Lichfield City and Lichfield TV where the driver was standing up, one hand on the controls, and the other packing his rucksack! He certainly didn't have his eye on the track ahead! Now, I accept that the service goes slowly between the two stations (because of the pedestrian crossings) but this seems a little reckless to me!
Flamingo
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I hasten to add ALL I know about this is what I've read on here and the links posted, but setting aside all the Daily Wail hysteria it does look bad...
On another note, it's quite nice that the Daily Wail has changed their opinion of Train Drivers from people operating something a bit less complex than a milk float to on a par with astronauts!
On another note, it's quite nice that the Daily Wail has changed their opinion of Train Drivers from people operating something a bit less complex than a milk float to on a par with astronauts!
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I'm not going to comment on this particular case, but there are some documents we need to refer to whilst on the move when working certain trains... here's an example : being a freight driver, I'm often given what's called an RT2973 'heavy axle weight form' which accompanies the Tops list if the wagon's route availablility throws up a higher number than that for the route I'm going to drive over. On it will be the route restrictions and any speed restrictions applying to specific bridges - one of our jobs from Bardon Hill to Cricklewood used to include over twenty such speed restrictions, varying from 10mph to 50mph.... it's not easy to remember them all in one go when you're actually driving (and changing from fast to slow lines several times during the journey) so we I had to refer to them every few minutes as we went along. Dangerous...? I don't think so, it's all part of the job.
(Not making any excuses for the case mentioned in this thread, but lets leave it to the people who's job it is to deal with these things
)
(Not making any excuses for the case mentioned in this thread, but lets leave it to the people who's job it is to deal with these things
)
I'm not going to comment on this particular case, but there are some documents we need to refer to whilst on the move when working certain trains... here's an example : being a freight driver, I'm often given what's called an RT2973 'heavy axle weight form' which accompanies the Tops list if the wagon's route availablility throws up a higher number than that for the route I'm going to drive over. On it will be the route restrictions and any speed restrictions applying to specific bridges - one of our jobs from Bardon Hill to Cricklewood used to include over twenty such speed restrictions, varying from 10mph to 50mph.... it's not easy to remember them all in one go when you're actually driving (and changing from fast to slow lines several times during the journey) so we I had to refer to them every few minutes as we went along. Dangerous...? I don't think so, it's all part of the job.
(Not making any excuses for the case mentioned in this thread, but lets leave it to the people who's job it is to deal with these things
That's a good example of a drive rneeding to refer to something while on the move - thanks a lot for the insight.
notadriver
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It's not true that the CSR can't be used on the move.
I guess amongst 18000+ train drivers in
The country some - maybe the older hands who've been doing the job 30+ years could get complacent?
Freezing a subject without any blur at 60mph is something any half-assed photographer can do with a DSLR, and being as most DSLRs (if one was used here) can take multiple frames per second thats a very easy shot to make.
On the subject of fault books, ours are A5 in landscape and are about half and inch thick.
185
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See the stupid Daily (Hate) Mail .....
Beside the spelling mistakes, they straight away mentioned Bob Crow, who is nothing to do with Aslef.
Beside the spelling mistakes, they straight away mentioned Bob Crow, who is nothing to do with Aslef.
No Fault Found
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He was just folding the paper to cover door buttons to prevent a wrong side door release
Not from the cab of an HST he wasn't
I'm pretty certain French drivers do paperwork when in charge of a TGV.
The FGW driver is very irresponsible if this is true, but the train may have been stationary. Still, I doubt it. Are there any signals coming out of that tunnel? Were there any problems up ahead which would have caused him to be standing still at that particular point? The Daily Mail is known for it's........excitable...reporting, so perhaps we should just wait for the driver to tell the inquiry his side of the story.
I've just thought of something. Would there have been enough light in the tunnel to see the text of the newspaper? Or do HST cabs have lights?
The FGW driver is very irresponsible if this is true, but the train may have been stationary. Still, I doubt it. Are there any signals coming out of that tunnel? Were there any problems up ahead which would have caused him to be standing still at that particular point? The Daily Mail is known for it's........excitable...reporting, so perhaps we should just wait for the driver to tell the inquiry his side of the story.
I've just thought of something. Would there have been enough light in the tunnel to see the text of the newspaper? Or do HST cabs have lights?
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Cherry_Picker
Established Member
There are indeed light switches in driving cabs of trains.
dk1
Veteran Member
Most of us have a take-away coffee on the go if not make one. We also have the odd snack although i have known some colleagues to eat a full blown chinese!!
Cant say i ever sit & read a paper but know plenty who do have a scan especially on long boring bits of track.
Until we get the unwelcome in-cab CCTV i suppose they will still carry on. Then again havent we been through all this paraffinalia before with a photo in 'The Sun' that turned out to be an off-duty driver in the back cab of an HST near Derby?
Cant say i ever sit & read a paper but know plenty who do have a scan especially on long boring bits of track.
Until we get the unwelcome in-cab CCTV i suppose they will still carry on. Then again havent we been through all this paraffinalia before with a photo in 'The Sun' that turned out to be an off-duty driver in the back cab of an HST near Derby?
deltic1989
Established Member
Most of us have a take-away coffee on the go if not make one. We also have the odd snack although i have known some colleagues to eat a full blown chinese!!
Cant say i ever sit & read a paper but know plenty who do have a scan especially on long boring bits of track.
Until we get the unwelcome in-cab CCTV i suppose they will still carry on. Then again havent we been through all this paraffinalia before with a photo in 'The Sun' that turned out to be an off-duty driver in the back cab of an HST near Derby?
I remember that case. As for that being the case here looking at the picture the lights are white and looking from the train its on the left hand line. Now I'm no expert on proceedure here but surely if the train had to reverse wrong line the red tail lights would be showing. After all that I'm still not convinced the train was moving. Surely no driver would be that
daft I mean I've heard about the training and tests surely after all that a driver wouldn't want to read his morning paper on the move and loose a good career. Just me speculating though.
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
The last thing we (or indeed the driver in question) need is speculation and hearsay...
WestCoast
Established Member
I agree, full investigations need to take place first.
On an unrelated note, the Daily Mail has produced another fine article...
I have posted about this before in the General Discussion forum.
causton
Established Member
"The train, which was racing at around 60mph"
Racing trains? That's even more dangerous! Stop trying to make everything sound more dangerous than it is when the time suits you, DM.
As a side note, what was originally copied to my clipboard was:
You have to love the closing line though...
"Train drivers have to constantly adjust their speeds and check signals and junctions."
To inform those Daily Mail readers who don't know what happens... and in fact surely someone who is constantly adjusting their speed is a bit of a bad driver! Blah, I give up
Racing trains? That's even more dangerous! Stop trying to make everything sound more dangerous than it is when the time suits you, DM.
As a side note, what was originally copied to my clipboard was:
Seriously? Do they have to advertise their site on the sly? :/
You have to love the closing line though...
"Train drivers have to constantly adjust their speeds and check signals and junctions."
To inform those Daily Mail readers who don't know what happens... and in fact surely someone who is constantly adjusting their speed is a bit of a bad driver! Blah, I give up
It's not the first time though.It is rife throughout the rail network. When you think that the Drivers on East Coast are on £57000 for a 35hr week it is appalling that some are so unprofesional. I can see why the Train Drivers assessment is under review. Remember this one? http://www.virginaircrewlies.com/railway/train3.htm
This was a FGW driver not an East Coast one - So why are East Coast drivers so un-professional? So, the driver has been photted with a paper on his lap aledgedly and should not be doing this but for someone to take this photo to of all papers the daily mail was for their own benefit and has cost the driver dearly by looks of things. I am no saying that this should not have been brought to light but maybe if the individual had taken their evidence to FGW instead of the mail maybe this could have been the right procedure? What do you think?
NightatLaira
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they actually took it to the Mirror first, but as soon as the Mirror got hold of it - it will have been released on AP, and then everyone would have had it (including the Daily Mail).
I think the Rail Apologists on here are once again doing a dis-service to the many professional and rule-abiding drivers at FGW.
It was clearly a newspaper, so accept it, move on, and expect him to be sacked. The train was not stationary, the picture is not faked. FGW have released a press statement and the media are reporting it, and if anyone in the PR chain has screwed up then the driver can sue them for libel.
As other people have previously said, there's little point in waiting for 'the truth to come out' - because it won't. This is an internal enquiry - meaning: you won't get to know the 'truth' later like you would in a public enquiry. So, unless you want to forever withhold your judgement - these news stories and odd snippets of hearsay from around the depot are going to be your best sources.
There is a time and a place for sympathy - and in my opinion, this is not it. What this guy did is no better than a motorist using a mobile phone; and attempting to find excuses for this driver, or cover up his mistake will only fuel the fire of public perception that the rail industry is a self-serving, strike-happy, unionised hypocritical club of lazy loafers who cover up for each other and can't be bothered to do their jobs properly. (and that wouldn't be true would it?
) So in short - I think FGW have done the right thing, and I think the unions have done the right thing by saying nothing.Now look, I'm sure the bloke's a nice guy. Maybe he only flipped open the paper for a couple of seconds - but that's not the point: rules are rules - end of. You can get done as a motorist for sending a one word text message the same as you can for holding a 30min phone call. That's just the way life goes....
I know bucket loads of people who've been trying to get into driver training at Laira and would quite happily give their right arms to drive HSTs up and down the GWML all day, most of them would quite happily do it for free! All of them would feel privileged and honoured to be HST drivers, and they would do it to the best of their ability every day of their lives. I doubt any of them would get this complacent about their jobs - maybe they're the people FGW should be hiring instead.
SqUaShIe P
Member
I was in my car a little while ago, stopped at a level crossing and as the train passed, I could clearly see the driver was watching a portable DVD player.
Its the only time i've seen that sort of thing myself. I had a word with the driver at the destination station so i didnt report it, but I really think that things like this are unacceptable.
Its the only time i've seen that sort of thing myself. I had a word with the driver at the destination station so i didnt report it, but I really think that things like this are unacceptable.
they actually took it to the Mirror first, but as soon as the Mirror got hold of it - it will have been released on AP, and then everyone would have had it (including the Daily Mail).
I think the Rail Apologists on here are once again doing a dis-service to the many professional and rule-abiding drivers at FGW.
It was clearly a newspaper, so accept it, move on, and expect him to be sacked. The train was not stationary, the picture is not faked. FGW have released a press statement and the media are reporting it, and if anyone in the PR chain has screwed up then the driver can sue them for libel.
As other people have previously said, there's little point in waiting for 'the truth to come out' - because it won't. This is an internal enquiry - meaning: you won't get to know the 'truth' later like you would in a public enquiry. So, unless you want to forever withhold your judgement - these news stories and odd snippets of hearsay from around the depot are going to be your best sources.
There is a time and a place for sympathy - and in my opinion, this is not it. What this guy did is no better than a motorist using a mobile phone; and attempting to find excuses for this driver, or cover up his mistake will only fuel the fire of public perception that the rail industry is a self-serving, strike-happy, unionised hypocritical club of lazy loafers who cover up for each other and can't be bothered to do their jobs properly. (and that wouldn't be true would it?
Now look, I'm sure the bloke's a nice guy. Maybe he only flipped open the paper for a couple of seconds - but that's not the point: rules are rules - end of. You can get done as a motorist for sending a one word text message the same as you can for holding a 30min phone call. That's just the way life goes....
I know bucket loads of people who've been trying to get into driver training at Laira and would quite happily give their right arms to drive HSTs up and down the GWML all day, most of them would quite happily do it for free! All of them would feel privileged and honoured to be HST drivers, and they would do it to the best of their ability every day of their lives. I doubt any of them would get this complacent about their jobs - maybe they're the people FGW should be hiring instead.
We may find out what happens,as with the Virgin one the driver was named and he was suspended without pay for less than a week.It was reported about a month after the original article in the paper. http://www.virginaircrewlies.com/railway/train3.htm
Firestarter
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Are we to assume the driver was reading the paper in the tunnel as well? Great eyesight if he was.
185
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One of the few who drives whilst awake. Leave 'im alone!
Are we to assume the driver was reading the paper in the tunnel as well? Great eyesight if he was.
Presumably he was reading it before the tunnel? I've been on a train (321) with no internal lights on, and saw a guy reading Metro who had the paper in the same exact position after we left the tunnel as he had been just before we went in. It did look as if he'd been able to read it in total darkness!
Suffice to say, he didn't open the paper IN the tunnel! I doubt the FGW driver did.
I won't support a car driver breaking the law even though I drive, so I can't see any reason for people to support the FGW driver if he had done this. Forget solidarity - this driver has tarnished the reputation of all drivers and railway staff. There's a shortage of drivers so if he was guilty and is sacked, someone else can come in and take the position and life goes on.
Correct. In my experience, despite what the union bashers may say, unions are not generally keen on supporting members who have 'shot themselves in teh foot' and tarnished both their profession, and the reputation of their colleagues in so doing.
Have you tried cameras these days?
As it's already been stated, even mid-entry point and shoot cameras can capture shots like this. You simply need a fast shutter and as this was taken in the day, then I would suspect you could get that type of shot with the fastest shutter speed your camera can allow. This coupled together with the fact many more people have SLR's these days which provide a better quality image (in terms of colour range) and more control over settings (like shutter speed), not to mention the fact that if you want a clear shot of a train, you'd need a fast shutter, then it all makes sense... from a photographers point of view.
I am not saying you're wrong, just saying unlikely.
If there are no signals within that area, the train wouldn't be stationary unless there was a serious problem.
No exhaust smoke - MTU's tend to have much MUCH less fumes, especially at speed.
But it shouldn't get into the public realm.
To be frank, it's none of our business what FGW decide to do. That is between them and the employee in question. While I can see some people may think it is our business to know because the driver has a duty of care to his passengers, the fact First are taking action and have publically said this particular driver has been suspended should suffice.
Nobody was hurt... move on.
This isn't being taken too seriously, otherwise I would have expected it to have been on the BBC's national news.
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