High Dyke
Established Member
Is that from the perspective of a new applicant or a former signaller? We can all moan, but it's paid my bills for the last 25-years.
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A career as a signaller
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Do tell why ?
nom de guerre
Member
- Joined
- 24 Nov 2015
- Messages
- 801
Without any additional context, this comes across as attention-seeking.
(And who doesn’t “think twice” before making a career move of any significance …?).
If you’ve got beef, let’s hear it. Don’t be shy.
Granted I've only been in the job less than two years but signalling is infinitely better to any other job I've had previously. There are probably better ones out there, sure but I am very happy to have made the switch and I wish I did it 20 years ago.
Unfortunately it's the way it goes as they have that many people to choose from if you can't make the dates or work round it then they'll just ask another person.
I was offered an interview while I was going to be away on holiday and asked if there was any chance of changing it and got told the same. Luckily enough it was an online interview so I risked a potentially weak internet connection while on holiday in order to attend it.
prophetofdoom2
Member
Once upon a time I was a signaller before I left network rail, I just think that where i worked there was a lack of motivation to perform well. I think it is made worse that the company do not address valid concerns raised about these issues. Of course I cant tar everyone with the same brush.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Local issues. not everywhere will be the same.
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SWTurbo
Member
As you've said, that's a local issue. I've heard of various locations in the grade having various issues, being sorted out at various rates of speed, but as someone that did it, left, then came back my experience (and therefore view on the job) is rather different! Rightfully so anyone should consider the various pros and cons of the role before committing to it, but this thread is certainly more on the "for" side of the line. (Edit - Though that's not to say that informing prospective siggies of the cons is a bad thing at all!)
prophetofdoom2
Member
I think it has widespread issues, but it has potential to be better. It is a good job on balance but from my experience but local issues dont get resolved due to long drawn out petty arguments between union reps and managers.
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Pros:
Work-life:
Can’t really beat the salary where I live,
On 12 hour roster, I work 14/28 days.
I get a run of 8 days off every month.
Operational:
Quite routine on quiet days
Clear structure to follow- you don’t need to get creative, just follow what you know.
Responsibility for your own decisions and time management
Night shifts are a lot quieter than days
Plenty of progression opportunities
Cons:
If things go wrong it can be incredibly stressful.
It is easy to make a mistake
A 12 hour busy shift can leave you exhausted. (And you’ve still got 3 more to go)
The phone(s) can be relentless on bad days with little time to keep up.
You never know what/when things are going to be tough, it can go from zero to hectic in a few moments.
I can get a bit of PTSD over potential repetition of previous experiences.
You need to be able to recall rules, or at least be able to grab the relevant book, and interpret it, pretty much in the moment.
There’s lots that I do that are nothing to do with the rule books. Eg, optimally fitting in line blocks.
Can be a challenge if you’re not comfortable on your own all day.
Work-life:
Can’t really beat the salary where I live,
On 12 hour roster, I work 14/28 days.
I get a run of 8 days off every month.
Operational:
Quite routine on quiet days
Clear structure to follow- you don’t need to get creative, just follow what you know.
Responsibility for your own decisions and time management
Night shifts are a lot quieter than days
Plenty of progression opportunities
Cons:
If things go wrong it can be incredibly stressful.
It is easy to make a mistake
A 12 hour busy shift can leave you exhausted. (And you’ve still got 3 more to go)
The phone(s) can be relentless on bad days with little time to keep up.
You never know what/when things are going to be tough, it can go from zero to hectic in a few moments.
I can get a bit of PTSD over potential repetition of previous experiences.
You need to be able to recall rules, or at least be able to grab the relevant book, and interpret it, pretty much in the moment.
There’s lots that I do that are nothing to do with the rule books. Eg, optimally fitting in line blocks.
Can be a challenge if you’re not comfortable on your own all day.
High Dyke
Established Member
Glad to hear it. Some of us do try to be helpful. However, I'm aware of other TU reps that really shouldn't be doing the role.
And don't forget to keep your arse covered. Management will always blame the signalman or signal woman.
nom de guerre
Member
- Joined
- 24 Nov 2015
- Messages
- 801
Thanks for elaborating.
Sorry to hear that. I can empathise, having worked in one box a bit like that. Fortunately, on that occasion the response from management and union reps was pretty good.
But there are problematic/toxic workplaces in all industries and personally, I haven’t found signalling to be worse than any other sector I’ve worked in.
prophetofdoom2
Member
It depends on the situation and the manager. Far too many signallers getting away with struggling at the job, and managers don't have the authority/support to properly weed out the bad ones.
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keswickline
Member
its definitely good to see some balance on here, often posts by many people very keen to start a career in signalling so understandably gives a very rosy vibe …
would appreciate any more real insight good or bad, on the day to day as a grade 2/3 solo signaller, especially how it can be when busy and what that involves?
Kraken
Member
I’m a grade 3 signaller in several grade 3 boxes. Most days and nights are pretty chill when everything is going well, after I’d been in job for 6 months or so I started to lose the constant low-level anxiety that something might go wrong and you do develop a muscle memory for the job. It’s a bit like driving a car - you find that you just do the job without necessarily constantly thinking about changing the gears and whatnot. That can be a bad thing if your system of work isn’t robust and can lead to mistakes! I read a lot of books on shift and build models. Some people play musical instruments, learn languages or even make clay pots.
Your job involves sending and receiving bell codes to tell adjacent signallers that trains are coming and going, answering phone calls from people at level crossings, managing level crossings under your control outside the box, finding gaps in train services so people can get on the line to carry out maintenance safely and other stuff as necessary.
When it’s busy and we have trains diverted then you are pretty much constantly working for the whole shift. I find you can get into a sort of ‘flow state’ when that happens and, whilst it’s not stressful, you do feel worn out after 12 hours.
Cons for me of the job I think I’ve mentioned before on here:
1. I really miss having people in the office to chat rubbish with and bounce ideas off. I always had lots of work friends in previous jobs and not having that means I basically only talk to my family with any regularity. It’s not great for keeping your social skills exercised!
2. Now I’ve passed out of all my locations there’s not massive amounts of professional development I feel I can do. If you do your job well nobody notices, if you screw up everyone will know your name instantly down the line. If you are dependent on recognition and proactively innovating at work then possibly not the best career choice.
3. Working on nights and weekends sucks!
Pros
1. I’ve never read so many books in my life! Being out on the steps of the signal box on a summer evening with a cup of tea and a book, and getting paid for it is pretty stellar.
2. I enjoy being the master of my own little part of the railway, I hate it when stuff goes wrong, but when you solve a problem and keep trains moving safely, or pull off some regulating move using your knowledge of timings to avoid delaying services it does feel very satisfying.
3. The upside of working unsociable shifts means I’m frequently off during the week, can do the school run myself and have some time whilst everyone else is working. I get 8 days off in a row every 4 weeks without using any leave. Total gift.
4. This varies but I absolutely love being able to jack up my salary with overtime. So far in this 4 week pay period I’ve added over £2k to my gross pay through working rest days. Not every period is like that but if there’s something you’re saving up for then it’s nice to know you can earn yourself some extra pocket money.
5. Big snorting trains going past all day is pretty cool I think.
For me, I enjoy the reactive nature of the job and the pros very much outweigh the cons. It can strangely be quite family friendly and the job itself is just quite fun really. Stuff does go wrong but you’re taught how to deal with it.
I’ve just thrown a load of thoughts down randomly so I’m sure I’ve missed stuff.
High Dyke
Established Member
Every day can be different. You may find a grade 2 or 3 box that only has two trains per-hour. Oddly enough, I've known people that couldn't cope with that level of inactivity.
From personal experience, some locations have services that seem to bunch up, say four trains in about 20-minutes and then nothing for 40-minutes. Every location is different.
I've also covered G3 crossing boxes with 16/20 trains per-hour. Places like that mean you have to manage when you eat or visit the toilet.
keswickline
Member
Kraken cheers an Amazing balanced view, thankyou so much for taking the time to go into such detail, that’s really useful insight and also high dykes comments too. Happy regulating guys !
I feel this is a very balanced and realistic view of the job particularly from the "outside boxes" perspective. For signalling centres/ROCs also factor in office politics and potentially having to work closely with people you may or may not like!!!
Llanigraham
On Moderation
I was in a Gr2 mechanical Box with a level crossing outside for 10 years and was happy to see it out until my retirement, so wasn't intrested in furtherment.
We had around 4 trains an hour on the day shift and a lot less between 2200 and 0600. Shifts were 0600 - 1800 - 0600 so generally missed any traffic problems getting to and from work, although that early in the morning could be "interesting" during bad weather. The problem with the timings on day shifts was that you didn't really get adequate time to get food so I did end up putting on weight, since it was easier to snack on the wrong things. At least at night you could get yourself a meal around 2200. Sunday was the better day shift, if the line was open, as the service was halved basically so it was easy to cook a decent breakfast. One resident even used to cook a joint in the Baby Belling for his Sunday roast.
Box politics were always "interesting" but since you really only met together at change-over time problems didn't interfeer too much. We found that there was always one member who was willing to take all the overtime offered which was great if you weren't interested. Management I found was hit and miss. we changed managers only once and the first was very supportive and didn't get too involved unless he had to, whilst the second wasn't as good. I actually put this down to less training provided to him by NR generally. Personally he did cause me problems following my incident where I ruptured a tendon in my hand when pulling a lever one night, which finally led to my early retirement.
The job can certainly be repetitive but you earn your money when things go wrong. I found the biggest problem was suddenly finding yourself having to do something out of the ordinary, where you had to find the rules, especially early in the career. However having good relationships with shift colleagues at the Boxes either side helped, as they were willing to explain things; single line working comes to mind immedeiately, the first couple of times it happened. Yes, we'd covered at School, but putting it into practice was a different thing.
Being tactful helps, especially if you have User Worked Crossings to control, and being able to talk and listen to farmers who want to do things NOW. Getting them "on side" helps immensely. Likewise getting to know the PWay staff and S & T. Keeping in with them might result in faults getting a better service, even unofficially, if you are willing to put the kettle on for them. Believe it or not some Boxes don't like them coming in!
Following my "incident" I was unable to pull a lever and NR were unable to find my an equal gradeed job anywhere near me. The things I was offered was either to move home or to move to a Gr1 Crossing Box that would have taken me 2 hours to reach. I asked if I could undertake further training and move to a local compurerised Control Centre but this was turned down with no reason stated.
Was it a good job? Overall yes. I liked the pay, I didn't mind working on my own, I liked the responibility.
Would I recommend it to others? Yes, but I would point out the problems.
We had around 4 trains an hour on the day shift and a lot less between 2200 and 0600. Shifts were 0600 - 1800 - 0600 so generally missed any traffic problems getting to and from work, although that early in the morning could be "interesting" during bad weather. The problem with the timings on day shifts was that you didn't really get adequate time to get food so I did end up putting on weight, since it was easier to snack on the wrong things. At least at night you could get yourself a meal around 2200. Sunday was the better day shift, if the line was open, as the service was halved basically so it was easy to cook a decent breakfast. One resident even used to cook a joint in the Baby Belling for his Sunday roast.
Box politics were always "interesting" but since you really only met together at change-over time problems didn't interfeer too much. We found that there was always one member who was willing to take all the overtime offered which was great if you weren't interested. Management I found was hit and miss. we changed managers only once and the first was very supportive and didn't get too involved unless he had to, whilst the second wasn't as good. I actually put this down to less training provided to him by NR generally. Personally he did cause me problems following my incident where I ruptured a tendon in my hand when pulling a lever one night, which finally led to my early retirement.
The job can certainly be repetitive but you earn your money when things go wrong. I found the biggest problem was suddenly finding yourself having to do something out of the ordinary, where you had to find the rules, especially early in the career. However having good relationships with shift colleagues at the Boxes either side helped, as they were willing to explain things; single line working comes to mind immedeiately, the first couple of times it happened. Yes, we'd covered at School, but putting it into practice was a different thing.
Being tactful helps, especially if you have User Worked Crossings to control, and being able to talk and listen to farmers who want to do things NOW. Getting them "on side" helps immensely. Likewise getting to know the PWay staff and S & T. Keeping in with them might result in faults getting a better service, even unofficially, if you are willing to put the kettle on for them. Believe it or not some Boxes don't like them coming in!
Following my "incident" I was unable to pull a lever and NR were unable to find my an equal gradeed job anywhere near me. The things I was offered was either to move home or to move to a Gr1 Crossing Box that would have taken me 2 hours to reach. I asked if I could undertake further training and move to a local compurerised Control Centre but this was turned down with no reason stated.
Was it a good job? Overall yes. I liked the pay, I didn't mind working on my own, I liked the responibility.
Would I recommend it to others? Yes, but I would point out the problems.
Hi everyone!
I read a lot of comments while waiting for the Assessment day invitation, three weeks now.
Unfortunately, I received an email today saing:
Thank you so much for taking the time to apply to Network Rail.
Unfortunately, we were unable to shortlist you for an assessment day on this occasion, but we’d like to keep you on our reserve list in case any further opportunities arise.
This is very frustrating. As I was really excited about it.
However, I managed to speak with them and move my application to another one available in 30 minutes distance to me.
Did anyone else experience a similar situation, and did you attend the assessment day?
Thank you!
I read a lot of comments while waiting for the Assessment day invitation, three weeks now.
Unfortunately, I received an email today saing:
Thank you so much for taking the time to apply to Network Rail.
Unfortunately, we were unable to shortlist you for an assessment day on this occasion, but we’d like to keep you on our reserve list in case any further opportunities arise.
This is very frustrating. As I was really excited about it.
However, I managed to speak with them and move my application to another one available in 30 minutes distance to me.
Did anyone else experience a similar situation, and did you attend the assessment day?
Thank you!
In terms of pro's whilst the money and time off is good you need to be able to tolerate whatever the drawbacks to the role are as well because getting up early one week and then working through the night the next and working 12 hours will soon get to you if you dislike the job.
I'd also say some of the pros/cons are very subjective but also related to your specific location,so for instance being in a box for 12 hours on your own really is location specific, sure a lot of lower grade boxes will be single staffed but there are also signalling centres or ROC's where you will be on a floor with loads of collegaues. But working in that kind of environment isn't for everyone either.
Likewise the ability to absolutely coin it in working overtime might be a pro to you but won't be something everyone is interested in.
One huge pro for me is the variety and opportunities to progress through the grades but this is totally down to your own preference . So you could be quite happy in a quiet grade 3 box and spend your entire career there and nobody would think that was unusual. Likewise you could want to progress to the grade 9 busy workstation or panel and again peeople get it.
Another pro for me is the relatively decent pension whch is often something people overlook until they are older.
One of the cons for me is similar to something @Kraken mentioned which is that nobody really notices if you do a good job, it can at times be demoarlising if you are really conscientious but you are working next to or you hear about someone that isn't and yet at the end of the month you both get paid the same.
Yes, this was the scenario I found myself in. Got the same email after I had applied to Glasgow. Another user explained it may be due to other candidates having better test scores than myself. Although at least they were good enough to be placed on file.
You're very fortunate another role has come up soon after your scores were placed on file. I'm having to accept that I may end up having to do the tests again in the future as I've heard nothing since receiving the email.
Pineapples
New Member
Hi all,
Does anyone know the shift pattern for the Haltwhistle box? Ive an application in for it and waiting to see if I’ll be getting an interview. Thanks!
Does anyone know the shift pattern for the Haltwhistle box? Ive an application in for it and waiting to see if I’ll be getting an interview. Thanks!
Hello, I am new on here. I am about to start the signallers 12 week course. Entry level 2. I am a little confused though by what happens after the 12 week course finishes? Am I automatically given a slot somewhere??
Sounds like you are on a training post ?
If that is the case then you will be expected to check the internal vacancy list and apply for any vacancies in your area . But I wouldn't worry yourself too much about this the main focus should be on getting through training.
If you haven't secured a permanent vacancy by the end of your training then your LOM will give you a location to train and will pass you out at that location .
Every route does it slightly differently , but it tends to be where I am that T-Post signallers will train grade 2-3 boxes that the LOM either has a vacancy in or knows there will be a vacancy coming up in . With the expectation that the trainee will apply for that job.
Thanks. Yes its a training position at Ipswich. All I really know is that its 12 weeks of training in ipswich. I have requested that I am located as close to my home in ipswich as possible. How do I apply for internal vacancies? I always check the network rail careers website but no positions in signalling?
Once you get your oracle login if you haven't already got it you will be able to look on the internal recruitment listings.
Oh I see. I haven't received that yet. I am due to start in November. Is the course fairly straight forward or is it really difficult? I have worked on the railway for 17 years as ground crew for a freight company so I am hoping that experience will help a little?
High Dyke
Established Member
The course can be as difficult or as straightforward as you make it. Everyone has their own level of understanding the information being taught. Already having experience of the operational railway environment is a good point.
If you have a defined signalling location, after the training, then that will be your designated place. If you don't have a location you will be expected to apply for any suitable vacancies within the area.
Thanks. I dont think I have a defined Signalling position, not been told so I think I will be required to apply internally once I start the course. My only thought is what if there are no positions available during or after the course finishes, or I have not been chosen from and area I have applied for. What then happens and where would I work whilst I wait for a position?
You will get all that sort of stuff when you start.
The course can be challenging ,I felt more because of the volume of information you have to get to grips with rather than the content ,I had railway experience as well.
But it is hugely subjective , and already having some operational knowledge will definitely help. For instance there will be things like safety critical comms which you shouldn't struggle with. Which for someone from outside the industry is a skill in itself to have to learn alongside all the rules, regulations and practical skills.
I would also make sure that you fully understand the basic principles that are covered in the first 2 weeks because they are the foundations for other rules and regs you learn in the later weeks. And if ever in doubt ask your trainer to clarify something.
If you don't have a permanent location by the end of the course your LOM will pick somewhere for you to train , usually a grade 3 or 4 locaton.