SWR Intent to prosecute, but half the tickets are legitimate. Please help.

[zelete]

Hi all,

Im new to this forum so please feel free to inform me If I am doing something against convention or forum rules.

I was issued an MG11 notice of intent to prosecute by SWR in early may of this year, because I had an expired railcard and was travelling on it unknowingly.
Upon being told by the revenue protection officer I apologised profusely and offered to buy a new railcard on the spot, but was told that its too late and to refund my ticket as this mg11 would serve as proof of travel.
After waiting almost 5 months for thier correspondence I thought maybe they decided not to follow up.

However 2 days ago I have recieved an email from them with an excel spreadsheet of 123 irregular train journeys, some of which span back to 2020 when I wasn't even an adult.
I cant remember the context of most of these journeys, and the majority of these journeys are to do with the expired railcard.
In the spreadsheet there are quite a few journeys 50+ so far that are highlighted as irregular but I know were legitimate and valid.
However, there was a time when I was young, niave and broke that I used to often short fare into london, and this is clearly highlighted in thier data.
I am not proud of these actions, but it was done out of a place of economic hardship and not malice or ill intent.

This is where I need advice, I am partially at fault, partially it was a mistake, and partially some of these accusations are false.
Is it safe to try and defend the legitimate tickets, I don't want to risk this matter going to criminal court, as that would obliterate my career prospects.
I am a recent graduate living at home unable to find gainful employement despite my best efforts, I don't have money only debt.
I have very strict parents who are also struggling really badly financially, so the less I have to pay on this fine the less it would ruin my life.
I have been given until the 17th to respond to thier email, How should I proceed?

Also not sure if this is relevant but I have found quite a few errors in the ticket data SWR has provided to me, as well as mistakes in the timelines they are proposing, is this a deliberate attempt
to try and catch me out so that they can use this in court, I don't quite understand since I was under the impression that this is meant to be a serious legal document from thier strong wording.

p.s. I've also attached three documents, with personal details removed; The email I recieved, EXHIBIT RMJ-1, and my drafted response.
I hope this can help you help me out.

Thank you very much for time and your help, I'm really stressed out and any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Edit: removed personal details from the spreadsheet, thanks

 

[Egg Centric]

Hi all,

Im new to this forum so please feel free to inform me If I am doing something against convention or forum rules.

I was issued an MG11 notice of intent to prosecute by SWR in early may of this year, because I had an expired railcard and was travelling on it unknowingly.
Upon being told by the revenue protection officer I apologised profusely and offered to buy a new railcard on the spot, but was told that its too late and to refund my ticket as this mg11 would serve as proof of travel.
After waiting almost 5 months for thier correspondence I thought maybe they decided not to follow up.

However 2 days ago I have recieved an email from them with an excel spreadsheet of 123 irregular train journeys, some of which span back to 2020 when I wasn't even an adult.
I cant remember the context of most of these journeys, and the majority of these journeys are to do with the expired railcard.
In the spreadsheet there are quite a few journeys 50+ so far that are highlighted as irregular but I know were legitimate and valid.
However, there was a time when I was young, niave and broke that I used to often short fare into london, and this is clearly highlighted in thier data.
I am not proud of these actions, but it was done out of a place of economic hardship and not malice or ill intent.

This is where I need advice, I am partially at fault, partially it was a mistake, and partially some of these accusations are false.
Is it safe to try and defend the legitimate tickets, I don't want to risk this matter going to criminal court, as that would obliterate my career prospects.
I am a recent graduate living at home unable to find gainful employement despite my best efforts, I don't have money only debt.
I have very strict parents who are also struggling really badly financially, so the less I have to pay on this fine the less it would ruin my life.
I have been given until the 17th to respond to thier email, How should I proceed?

Also not sure if this is relevant but I have found quite a few errors in the ticket data SWR has provided to me, as well as mistakes in the timelines they are proposing, is this a deliberate attempt
to try and catch me out so that they can use this in court, I don't quite understand since I was under the impression that this is meant to be a serious legal document from thier strong wording.

p.s. I've also attached three documents, with personal details removed; The email I recieved, EXHIBIT RMJ-1, and my drafted response.
I hope this can help you help me out.

Thank you very much for time and your help, I'm really stressed out and any advice would be greatly appreciated.

First things first, the spreadsheet has your name and email address in it. I assume you don't want that, so you may wish to delete it as an attachment. I will report the post as well as a precaution. If it's removed then if you're fine with it then you would be fine to put it back up (I would have thought, but take direction from mods not me!)

 

[WesternLancer]

When you say you were not an adult in 2020 I assume you know adult fares are charged at age 16

If they believe you are being honest and co operative with them then they may remove fares you claim were legitimate but it might help if you can substantiate your claims with any supporting evidence as to why you were travelling between the locations concerned.

I think the point of the spreadsheet is to allow you to annotate it with comments about such information.

I see your draft provides fairly detailed responses to their list. I’m not sure how they then decide if they believe you or not.

I don’t think they will be seeking to catch you out in the way you suggest. They can prosecute you for the time you were caught red handed if they want to take it to court.

 

[30907]

The first thing you must do is fill in the spreadsheet as accurately as you can.

This gives you the opportunity to identify each legitimate journey in a way that make SW's task easier.

You don't at this stage need to explain exactly why - save that for later in the process if necessary.

BTW for the future: if trains are disrupted you do NOT generally have to refund your ticket and buy a different one.

 

[zelete]

So you can’t remember the details of most of the journeys but you do definitely remember 50+ of them are legit but you often short fared.

Come on, you’ll get great advice here but only if you’re honest with us

I spend two sleepless days scouring emails, bank statements, text messages, and my camera roll to figure out the context behind this journeys. I am being fully transparent and honest, I understand the severity of the situation I'm in.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Sep 2025 ==

First things first, the spreadsheet has your name and email address in it. I assume you don't want that, so you may wish to delete it as an attachment. I will report the post as well as a precaution. If it's removed then if you're fine with it then you would be fine to put it back up (I would have thought, but take direction from mods not me!)

Thank you for letting me know, I spoke to the mods and changed it to an updated version without the personal info.

 

[WesternLancer]

I spend two sleepless days scouring emails, bank statements, text messages, and my camera roll to figure out the context behind this journeys. I am being fully transparent and honest, I understand the severity of the situation I'm in.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Sep 2025 ==


Thank you for letting me know, I spoke to the mods and changed it to an updated version without the personal info.

I tend to think you should be using the info you have set out in your attachment ref the journies. Or add a column to the xl sheet and insert the relevant comments against each row.

 

[zelete]

Email sent, fingers crossed they are willing to hear me out. Thank you everyone for the help.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2025 ==

I sent the email on monday, it is now wednesday and I am yet to hear anything back, is this normal?
Just worried because they said the deadline for my response was today the 17th, and it seems like they haven't read my email yet.
Thanks.

 

[WesternLancer]

Email sent, fingers crossed they are willing to hear me out. Thank you everyone for the help.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2025 ==

I sent the email on monday, it is now wednesday and I am yet to hear anything back, is this normal?
Just worried because they said the deadline for my response was today the 17th, and it seems like they haven't read my email yet.
Thanks.

That deadline was for you to reply by. They might take some time before they read it and reply to you. Potentially up to a few weeks but hopefully quicker.

This is normal. There are a lot of people that get caught and reported and probably only a small team dealing with it all.

 

[zelete]

Okay so I have recieved a response from them, however it expects me to provide accurate details for every single journey since 2020, and threatens legal action unless I do so, this is entirely unreasonable as I cannot possibly remember all of these journeys. I have provided comprehensive context for all the legitimate journeys I can remember/prove, and the details of my typical travel patterns, plus they already have my railcard purchase history. I do not want to provide answers for things that are uncertain in my memory or I cannot prove as this can be later used against me in court, as they mention in every correspondence.

Attached below is the email I sent and thier response.

What more can I do to resolve this matter, and proceed forward. Thanks again.

 

[AlterEgo]

Okay so I have recieved a response from them, however it expects me to provide accurate details for every single journey since 2020, and threatens legal action unless I do so, this is entirely unreasonable as I cannot possibly remember all of these journeys. I have provided comprehensive context for all the legitimate journeys I can remember/prove, and the details of my typical travel patterns, plus they already have my railcard purchase history. I do not want to provide answers for things that are uncertain in my memory or I cannot prove as this can be later used against me in court, as they mention in every correspondence.

Attached below is the email I sent and thier response.

What more can I do to resolve this matter, and proceed forward. Thanks again.

They are now at the stage of sorting out how much you owe for the fraudulent journeys and are asking you about them.

Well, for example, if you've been short faring using the Vauxhall trick, you must surely remember where you were living at the time. You might not remember each individual journey but you probably have a good idea where you travelled from into London. The important thing is to be honest and truthful with them.

 

[zelete]

They are now at the stage of sorting out how much you owe for the fraudulent journeys and are asking you about them.

Well, for example, if you've been short faring using the Vauxhall trick, you must surely remember where you were living at the time. You might not remember each individual journey but you probably have a good idea where you travelled from into London. The important thing is to be honest and truthful with them.

Do you think this is a fitting response,

Hi ---,

I realistically cannot fill out the excel sheet as I do not know the exact specifics of every single journey and do not want to mistakenly provide answers which are wrong. I have already provided details of the journeys I can prove / remember.
As for my valid railcards, all their purchase history is already available to you, as I have not purchased railcards anywhere else.
And my typical travel patterns for those tickets purchased between vauxhall and waterloo, were are as you mentioned, actually from kempton park. I made some poor decisions under tough financial conditions, and for that I would like to apologise.
The other typical travel patterns I have mentioned in my previous email.

Thank you

 

[WesternLancer]

Do you think this is a fitting response,

Hi ---,

I realistically cannot fill out the excel sheet as I do not know the exact specifics of every single journey and do not want to mistakenly provide answers which are wrong. I have already provided details of the journeys I can prove / remember.
As for my valid railcards, all their purchase history is already available to you, as I have not purchased railcards anywhere else.
And my typical travel patterns for those tickets purchased between vauxhall and waterloo, were are as you mentioned, actually from kempton park. I made some poor decisions under tough financial conditions, and for that I would like to apologise.
The other typical travel patterns I have mentioned in my previous email.

Thank you

my instinct is the tone of this is not very good really - you need to be persuading them you are trying to co-operate with them - not telling them why you can't - or otherwise they will just charge you for the whole lot if you want the settlement.

if they want to see your railcards - provide them or the proof if at all possible - it's in your interests to do so - don't suggest they spend their time going off looking for them

if they have sent you an XL sheet and you say every instance from / to Vauxhall and Waterloo is actually from Kempton Park to Waterloo - enter that in every line on the spread sheet where it applies.

If you can't recall what you did on other journeys, then you need to enter words to that effect on the spreadsheet where it applies - eg 'unable to recall details of travel on this date' - you can then explain this in the covering message - for example - 'I have filled this in to the best of my ability but you will appreciate that some of this travel is several years ago and I do not have specific information about it any more, but do not wish to mistakenly provide incorrect answers.'

By making things easier for them then the chances of the money they want from you being reduced is more likely.

 

[zelete]

my instinct is the tone of this is not very good really - you need to be persuading them you are trying to co-operate with them - not telling them why you can't - or otherwise they will just charge you for the whole lot if you want the settlement.

if they want to see your railcards - provide them or the proof if at all possible - it's in your interests to do so - don't suggest they spend their time going off looking for them

if they have sent you an XL sheet and you say every instance from / to Vauxhall and Waterloo is actually from Kempton Park to Waterloo - enter that in every line on the spread sheet where it applies.

If you can't recall what you did on other journeys, then you need to enter words to that effect on the spreadsheet where it applies - eg 'unable to recall details of travel on this date' - you can then explain this in the covering message - for example - 'I have filled this in to the best of my ability but you will appreciate that some of this travel is several years ago and I do not have specific information about it any more, but do not wish to mistakenly provide incorrect answers.'

By making things easier for them then the chances of the money they want from you being reduced is more likely.

Very good point, I honestly dont know why I hadn't considered filling in the excel sheet partly.

Thank you again, I'd be totally lost without this forum's advice.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Sep 2025 ==

Here is my new drafted response email alongside the Excel sheet which I filled out to the best of my ability (managed to provide details for 108 out of 123 entries).
Please let me know if you think this is an appropriate response, and if there is anything I can do to improve it, thanks again.

Hi ---,

I have filled the excel sheet to the best of my ability.
However, as most of this travel is from a significantly long time ago, I unfortunately no longer have the specifics regarding some journeys and do not wish to mistakenly provide the wrong information.
All 16-25 railcards I've ever held are the ones described in the excel sheet, I did have 2 16-17 railcards for the 2 years prior to this, but I cannot access them as it was through the 16-17 saver app which is no longer on the app store.
I apologise for my past actions of short faring train journeys, and can assure you I will never do it again in the future.
I would appreciate the opportunity to pay for the invalid tickets, so that we may settle this matter, and resolve the issue.

Also just to clarify:
For number 120 I was informed to refund this ticket by the revenue protection officer and to show the prosecution notice as my proof of travel instead.
For number 117, there is an error as this is not a purchase I made, and that is not my name, email or account number.

Thank you again for your consideration and time.

Yours sincerely,
---

 

[WesternLancer]

Very good point, I honestly dont know why I hadn't considered filling in the excel sheet partly.

Thank you again, I'd be totally lost without this forum's advice.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Sep 2025 ==

Here is my new drafted response email alongside the Excel sheet which I filled out to the best of my ability (managed to provide details for 108 out of 123 entries).
Please let me know if you think this is an appropriate response, and if there is anything I can do to improve it, thanks again.

Hi ---,

I have filled the excel sheet to the best of my ability.
However, as most of this travel is from a significantly long time ago, I unfortunately no longer have the specifics regarding some journeys and do not wish to mistakenly provide the wrong information.
All 16-25 railcards I've ever held are the ones described in the excel sheet, I did have 2 16-17 railcards for the 2 years prior to this, but I cannot access them as it was through the 16-17 saver app which is no longer on the app store.
I apologise for my past actions of short faring train journeys, and can assure you I will never do it again in the future.
I would appreciate the opportunity to pay for the invalid tickets, so that we may settle this matter, and resolve the issue.

Also just to clarify:
For number 120 I was informed to refund this ticket by the revenue protection officer and to show the prosecution notice as my proof of travel instead.
For number 117, there is an error as this is not a purchase I made, and that is not my name, email or account number.

Thank you again for your consideration and time.

Yours sincerely,
---

Generally looks ok. But do not address them as ‘Hi’ - this is formal stuff. So Dear Sir / Madam or Dear Jo Bloggs if you are responding to a message from a named member of staff.

Include your case ref at start of letter too.

 

[MotCO]

Very good point, I honestly dont know why I hadn't considered filling in the excel sheet partly.

Thank you again, I'd be totally lost without this forum's advice.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Sep 2025 ==

Here is my new drafted response email alongside the Excel sheet which I filled out to the best of my ability (managed to provide details for 108 out of 123 entries).
Please let me know if you think this is an appropriate response, and if there is anything I can do to improve it, thanks again.

Hi ---,

I have filled the excel sheet to the best of my ability.
However, as most of this travel is from a significantly long time ago, I unfortunately no longer have the specifics regarding some journeys and do not wish to mistakenly provide the wrong information.
All 16-25 railcards I've ever held are the ones described in the excel sheet, I did have 2 16-17 railcards for the 2 years prior to this, but I cannot access them as it was through the 16-17 saver app which is no longer on the app store.
I apologise for my past actions of short faring train journeys, and can assure you I will never do it again in the future.
I would appreciate the opportunity to pay for the invalid tickets, so that we may settle this matter, and resolve the issue.

Also just to clarify:
For number 120 I was informed to refund this ticket by the revenue protection officer and to show the prosecution notice as my proof of travel instead.
For number 117, there is an error as this is not a purchase I made, and that is not my name, email or account number.

Thank you again for your consideration and time.

Yours sincerely,
---

I would also expand upon your apology- reading it, it seems more perfunctory than heartfelt. Remember that they hold all the cards, and you need to demonstrate that you have learnt a hard lesson, and that you will never do it again. (If appropriate, buy a railcard or a season ticket, and tell them that you have done this.)

 

[gray1404]

I am a bit concerned here. The equalities act requires the railway company to make reasonable adjustments and that includes when they are communicating with customers including in cases of investigation like this.

The op has stated to them that they have ADHD. They have provided a detailed letter to them accounting for the journeys. The train company has got back in touch with them sharing no understanding or consideration of their disability and insisting that they return a completed spreadsheet within a very short period of time.

At the very least they should be allowing more time than just a couple of days for them to do this. Please let us know if you would like any help making representations to them especially on the matter of disability and the need to make reasonable adjustments.

 

[35B]

I am a bit concerned here. The equalities act requires the railway company to make reasonable adjustments and that includes when they are communicating with customers including in cases of investigation like this.

The op has stated to them that they have ADHD. They have provided a detailed letter to them accounting for the journeys. The train company has got back in touch with them sharing no understanding or consideration of their disability and insisting that they return a completed spreadsheet within a very short period of time.

At the very least they should be allowing more time than just a couple of days for them to do this. Please let us know if you would like any help making representations to them especially on the matter of disability and the need to make reasonable adjustments.

The OP has also provided an answer that is based on their being a university student during the period in question; any argument about reasonable adjustments would need to address the fact that the OP had the ability to get into and then hold down a place on an undergraduate course.

Possibly more relevant is the reference to a traumatic brain injury and "brain fog" affecting memory, which is also not referred to by SWR. But even there, I would expect consideration to be against "don't know" answers rather than duration.

 

[AlterEgo]

The OP has also provided an answer that is based on their being a university student during the period in question; any argument about reasonable adjustments would need to address the fact that the OP had the ability to get into and then hold down a place on an undergraduate course.

Why would a disabled person need to explain what other unrelated activities they undertake?

People with ADHD regularly attend university. The university has to, under the Equality Act, provide reasonable adjustments.

This is like saying "I saw you boarded a plane several times last year for your holidays, I'm not entirely sure therefore that you're being honest about your physical disability" (A: "I have no legs, the airport had a legal requirement to provide a reasonable adjustment to enable me to board, like a wheelchair and a member of staff to assist me")

 

[John R]

I am a bit concerned here. The equalities act requires the railway company to make reasonable adjustments and that includes when they are communicating with customers including in cases of investigation like this.

The op has stated to them that they have ADHD. They have provided a detailed letter to them accounting for the journeys. The train company has got back in touch with them sharing no understanding or consideration of their disability and insisting that they return a completed spreadsheet within a very short period of time.

At the very least they should be allowing more time than just a couple of days for them to do this. Please let us know if you would like any help making representations to them especially on the matter of disability and the need to make reasonable adjustments.

A week seems a very reasonable length of time to give for a response, and the OP is unemployed, so should have plenty of time to give it their full attention (which it seems as though they are).

 

[35B]

Why would a disabled person need to explain what other unrelated activities they undertake?

People with ADHD regularly attend university. The university has to, under the Equality Act, provide reasonable adjustments.

This is like saying "I saw you boarded a plane several times last year for your holidays, I'm not entirely sure therefore that you're being honest about your physical disability" (A: "I have no legs, the airport had a legal requirement to provide a reasonable adjustment to enable me to board, like a wheelchair and a member of staff to assist me")

The point is not that they have to explain, but that they have already referred to other that other activity.

They have been given a few days to complete a spreadsheet. That is not an especially taxing task. A request for a reasonable adjustment needs to credibly be reasonable given that they will also have had to perform work within deadlines, especially in circumstances (as here) where an individual's credibility is itself a factor.

In response to the post by @gray1404, I also pointed to a more important feature of the OP's post which raises what is IMHO a more significant factor that may influence the OP's ability to meet the request.

In either case, given the thread above, the OP has met the deadline which therefore implies that questions reasonable adjustments are probably a red herring.

 

[zelete]

I am a bit concerned here. The equalities act requires the railway company to make reasonable adjustments and that includes when they are communicating with customers including in cases of investigation like this.

The op has stated to them that they have ADHD. They have provided a detailed letter to them accounting for the journeys. The train company has got back in touch with them sharing no understanding or consideration of their disability and insisting that they return a completed spreadsheet within a very short period of time.

At the very least they should be allowing more time than just a couple of days for them to do this. Please let us know if you would like any help making representations to them especially on the matter of disability and the need to make reasonable adjustments.

The timeline is fine, its just the fact that they want me to remember specifics for every single journey spanning back 4 years which concerns me, or atleast it seems that way from the language they are using in thier emails.
"We must receive a complete response covering every highlighted journey, and this must be supplied by completing the attached spreadsheet"
I have responded to them with how much I can remember or prove (108/123), but now its a case of will they take this is as non cooperation and prosecute me?

 

[SuspectUsual]

The timeline is fine, its just the fact that they want me to remember specifics for every single journey spanning back 4 years which concerns me, or atleast it seems that way from the language they are using in thier emails.
"We must receive a complete response covering every highlighted journey, and this must be supplied by completing the attached spreadsheet"
I have responded to them with how much I can remember or prove (108/123), but now its a case of will they take this is as non cooperation and prosecute me?

I think what they mean is that they want a response in respect of each incident on the spreadsheet. If for 15 of them this is “I cannot remember and cannot find anything to prove where I was that day” or similar, I don’t think they will have a problem with it.