Delay Repay with SeatFrog: TPE Denying Compensation

[E100]

Hi, just thought it was worth bringing attention to the issue I've encountered whilst claiming for Delay Repay with a SeatFrog upgrade. I submitted a Delay Repay claim that was successful using my tickets and then separately submitted my SeatFrog upgrade via complaints (on the basis there was no obvious way to do this within the DR form and it's about a late train). I should say I have had success with TPE twice using this method before.

I was frankly shocked to receive the following via email:


Thank you for contacting TransPennine Express regarding your upgrade.
A Seat Frog upgrade can't be compensated via Delay Repay as it's an independent upgrade and not a journey ticket, you can only be compensated for the original journey ticket when claiming Delay Repay.
Once again, thank you for contacting TransPennine Express.
Yours sincerely, (Text added for forum rules)

My response has been the following - I have asked for this to be escalated as it's clear to me this customer service agent is going against what is currently stated by both TPE and SeatFrog:

Unfortunately you are evidently misinformed.

This is the information given on your own website under the FAQ's section
https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/special-offers/seatfrog-offers/seatfrog-upgrade

What happens if my train is delayed or cancelled?​

If you win an upgrade and your journey is delayed, you may still be able to use your upgrade. Please contact your travel provider for more information. Upgrades are also eligible for Delay Repay compensation if you arrive at your final destination delayed by 15 minutes or more. (Text added for forum rules)

Furthermore this is the information on the Seat Frog website which TPE have entered into agreement with
https://help.seatfrog.com/hc/en-gb/...-was-delayed-can-I-get-a-refund-on-my-upgrade

Yes. Seatfrog upgrades are eligible for the Delay Repay scheme.

Delay Repay is a national scheme train companies use to compensate passengers for delays. You can normally claim compensation if you're delayed by 30 minutes or more though this can vary by train operator.

Delay Repay claims* need to be submitted to the rail operator, in the same way as a rail ticket would be claimed for.

To submit a Delay Repay claim please follow the link to your train company:

• Avanti West Coast
• CrossCountry
• EMR
• Grand Central
• Greater Anglia
• GWR
• LNER (select the delay repay radio button)
• TransPennine Express

If you need any further help or information, please contact us via frg.gr/contact

*Please note platform fees are none refundable. (Text added for forum rules)

Clearly both sources of information clearly show that Seat Frog upgrades can in fact be compensated under the Delay Repay scheme despite TPE not having an option for this within the online tool, hence the reason for the email. If the policy of TPE has changed then much more effective communication is required since currently I and others are purchasing upgrades in the 'knowledge' that this will be compensated in line with Delay Repay and therefore in the same manner by which normal 1st class tickets are compensated.

I would highlight that this process should be made easier on the delay repay system so that this can be automated. I have previously had two successful claims resolved by this means but welcome further information on how to do this more efficiently.

I am astounded at the response and reasoning given below. As a result of this I now wish to escalate this matter to a formal complaint as it is clear that this information may have been used by yourself to wrongly deny compensation to additional people and this should be investigated as a matter of urgency. I also currently have a separate request for similar compensation in and expect this to be dealt with according to the policies set out above.

I look forward to a prompt and comprehensive response including a clear escalation to management.

I do indeed look forward to what is said after this...

 

[Bletchleyite]

TPE are incorrect; a Seatfrog upgrade (the same as a Weekend First or something) is part of the fare and should be compensated.

 

[E100]

Agreed. The fact it states as much on their website and SeatFrog's just makes this response frankly bizarre and would be more comical if I didn't think this person may have fobbed off several others who are less determined.

 

[Idiotic]

I’ve had delay repay on Seatfrog upgrades with TPE a few times now so that’s obviously been declined in error. Hopefully they will correct that for you. But as stated, you are eligible for delay repay on them.

 

[Hadders]

TPE are incorrect, but it's normally best to include the Seatfrog upgrade as part of the original delay repay claim rather than trying to do it separately.

 

[wilsontown]

TPE are incorrect, but it's normally best to include the Seatfrog upgrade as part of the original delay repay claim rather than trying to do it separately.

Yes, but I think the OP is saying that there isn't an obvious way to do this via TPE's delay repay.

 

[Hadders]

Yes, but I think the OP is saying that there isn't an obvious way to do this via TPE's delay repay.

I'd do it the same was as making a claim with a combination of tickets.

I can't remember if TPE has the option to upload more than one ticketf or a claim, if they do then use that. If they don't then I'd upload one picture of the ticket and seatfrog upgreae barcode, add the prices together, use the ticket number from the main ticket.

 

[E100]

Yes, but I think the OP is saying that there isn't an obvious way to do this via TPE's delay repay.

This is the problem.

I'd do it the same was as making a claim with a combination of tickets.

I can't remember if TPE has the option to upload more than one ticketf or a claim, if they do then use that. If they don't then I'd upload one picture of the ticket and seatfrog upgreae barcode, add the prices together, use the ticket number from the main ticket.

Funnily enough I did think about doing this as they do allow multiple ticket upload, however I figured it was likely to get the whole claim rejected. As part of my complaint I have asked them to make this clear as in anyway this cannot be an isolated incident and therefore warrants them stating the best procedure on the website for SeatFrog upgrades.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Funnily enough I did think about doing this as they do allow multiple ticket upload, however I figured it was likely to get the whole claim rejected.

That is the correct procedure. A Seatfrog upgrade is a ticket, and you made your journey with multiple tickets. You should do it that way in future.

 

[E100]

That is the correct procedure. A Seatfrog upgrade is a ticket, and you made your journey with multiple tickets. You should do it that way in future.

Ok, I will try to do so in the future. Note I did try to add this once as a eticket and a normal ticket and it was rejected as the number did not fit the required format so wouldn't even allow the upload - I'd just have to combine this manually with my eticket upload. That may well have been fixed as that was a few months back.

Nevertheless, as being a reasonably informed passenger this really isn't obvious and therefore I do think this should be made more obvious i.e. as part of the ticket types add a seatfrog upgrade. It also does not warrant a flat out rejection of compensation via customer services.

 

[styles]

What a farce.

An upgraded ticket is still a ticket, and subject to delay repay.

Yes you should ideally upload both tickets at the same time when submitting delay repay, but the response from TPE is frankly disgraceful. OP happens to be somebody who knows their rights and is refuting the TPE refusal, but I wonder how many other TPE SeatFrog passengers get that response then just accept it? Especially given TPE is a popular SeatFrog upgrade.

Why has this TPE advisor taken it upon themselves to say it's not subject to delay repay? This surely can't be part of their training? If it is part of their training then it's frankly a scandal.

Yet again, the passenger who knows their rights will get the outcome they deserve, with hassle added, while those who aren't as clued up will be fobbed off.

The contempt for the passenger is unreal.

 

[E100]

I have just received the following reply (grammar /spelling smacks of someone who does not understand what they are doing or is massively overworked to the point they cannot read back through what is said):

Thank you for contacting TransPennine Express regarding your Seat Frog.

I do apologise regarding the confusion in relation to Delay Repay, this was actually a mistake on my part as I believe the Seat Frog was an independent upgrade and not class as a ticket.

I have now raised for your claim to be amended with this, please allow up to 28 days for the claim to be amended, once complete a member of the Delay Repay team will contact you with the outcome.

Once again, thank you for contacting TransPennine Express.

Yours sincerely,

I have responded with as this does not clear up the concern about others having been wrongly denied compensation. I am though not going to respond beyond this and just wanted to make the point that just because I have followed this up does not mean it's acceptable that others have not and therefore miss out:

Many thanks for your response and I appreciate the clearing up of this matter in relation to my own case.

Please note however that this does not adequately answer my previous email and the steps I outlined. I am concerned that compensation has been wrongfully denied to others based on this mistake.

Can you confirm that this has:

1. Been raised to your manager.
2. All other cases that have received this response are to be reinvestigated or that this is the first and only case with such a response.

Many thanks,

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Sep 2025 ==

Have received this in reply - commendably quickly.

Thank you for contacting TransPennine Express regarding your journey.

While we can't advise the internal process regarding investigation of other cases, I can advise this was raised and hence they were the ones who corrected the information to me and I raised their advised amendment to the claim.

Once again, thank you for contacting TransPennine Express.

I'll consider the matter closed and it does sound like the proper steps have been taken as a result but perhaps an exercise for TPE in not trying fob off customers who know their rights without first checking the rules.

 

[AlterEgo]

They're not going to give you details of other cases because it isn't your business to ask via the complaints procedure. If you want to make such a request the FOI process is the one to go down.

 

[E100]

They're not going to give you details of other cases because it isn't your business to ask via the complaints procedure. If you want to make such a request the FOI process is the one to go down.

To be clear I didn't (or certainly at the very least didn't intend to if that's the way it's been interpretated) ask for other case details as obviously that would be confidential and not appropriate. Rather I just wanted a broad confirmation that any similar claims are being reinvestigated where this is needed. I.e. the implication being that if customer service agent ABC has denied 20 odd seat frog claims that these are to be looked at, not a request to know the ins and out of each similar case.

I feel the response addressed that and credit to them by the fact they confirmed that management were made aware rather than customer service agent ABC simply correcting this one case themselves and brushing the rest under the carpet.

PS love the videos

 

[SuspectUsual]

Rather I just wanted a broad confirmation that any similar claims are being reinvestigated where this is needed

I'm afraid their response on reading that is very, very likely to be "none of your business"

 

[styles]

I've been considering for a while writing to my MP about this issue. The fobbing off and passing the buck which goes on, looking at posts in this forum, appears to affect almost every operator and for a whole host of different excuses.

There was one about a month ago where ScotRail refused a delay repay claim because they'd interpreted it as a refund request. Customers must phone up or email all the time using the word 'refund' when talking about delay repay. It's the operator's job to realise they mean compensation and process the delay repay as normal.

Trying to refuse a delay repay claim for a SeatFrog upgrade when it's on the SeatFrog and the operator's own FAQs that the upgrades qualify for delay repay is just unacceptable frankly.

The people who lose out when cases like this come up are the passengers who don't travel by train as much as don't fully understand their rights. Those people who lose out will just be more likely to say stuff taking the train next time, I got delayed by over an hour and only got a score back, might as well drive.

 

[Adam Williams]

There was one about a month ago where ScotRail refused a delay repay claim because they'd interpreted it as a refund request. Customers must phone up or email all the time using the word 'refund' when talking about delay repay. It's the operator's job to realise they mean compensation and process the delay repay as normal.

This happens All...The...Time.

We are very specific with customers and tell them to never use the word "refund" when discussing Delay Repay compensation, because it's automatically seen as an immediate opportunity to fob the customer off with a "go away and talk to your retailer" response, even when the context makes it very clear what the customer was actually after.

This is what someone at CrossCountry told a customer recently:

The customer explicitly stated in their initial correspondence "Our train missed the connection at [XXX] station, forcing us to disembark and board another train in Birmingham. This extended our journey significantly, resulting in our arrival at 2:00 PM instead of the scheduled 12:24 PM." and yet they still got fobbed off.

I understand you are looking for refund due to delayed service. I will certainly help you with it.


Having searched under your e-mail address: example@example.com, I am unable to locate the booking you have quoted in your e-mail. In order to comply with Identification and Verification (Data Protection) Policies, I am not able to discuss any booking or passenger details with anyone else except for the person who has booked the ticket.

In order to proceed further, please confirm from where did you made this booking, so I will check and assist you accordingly.

Thank you for the email response. I appreciate you for helping with the details.

I see that you have purchased the tickets with TrainSplit, please contact to the point of purchase as we are unable to locate the booking details in our records.

 

[styles]

This happens All...The...Time.

We are very specific with customers and tell them to never use the word "refund" when discussing Delay Repay compensation, because it's automatically seen as an immediate opportunity to fob the customer off with a "go away and talk to your retailer" response, even when the context makes it very clear what the customer was actually after.

It's just ridiculous. I get that customer service agents will occasionally get things wrong, apologise, and make good. I accept that this will happen in some complicated cases like split tickets bought from different retailers so there's no single booking reference and the agent has to piece the journey together manually.

But it's inexcusable for agents not to be able to read between the lines when a customer asks for a refund for a delayed train that what they need is delay repay compensation.

This is what someone at CrossCountry told a customer recently:

That reply from XC reads almost auto-generated. I wonder if they have some AI tool in the background scanning emails and categorising them as refund requests instead of delay repay requests. Pure guesswork on my part though.

I do sometimes think it may be better to centralise delay repay claims to a single body who can apply a consistent set of rules, have a consistent script for customer service agents, etc. Similar for fare evasion enforcement after the ORR's frankly damning report into inconsistent and sometimes outright ridiculous practices of enforcement across the sector. Not sure how it would work for open access operators who are supposed to stand on their own two feet but I feel it would be a step in the right direction.

 

[duffield]

It's pretty outrageous, because in the ordinary English meaning of the word "refund", delay repay *is* a refund - a partial one, but a refund nonetheless. So customers are being punished for using normal English instead of "railway English". Ridiculous.

 

[Haywain]

It's pretty outrageous, because in the ordinary English meaning of the word "refund", delay repay *is* a refund - a partial one, but a refund nonetheless. So customers are being punished for using normal English instead of "railway English". Ridiculous.

In ordinary English the word compensation does not mean the same thing as refund.

 

[blimmo]

The fact it is calculated with reference to the original amount paid unfortunately leads people to believe it is a refund or partial refund. In contrast EC261 I think is much more obviously compensation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The fact it is calculated with reference to the original amount paid unfortunately leads people to believe it is a refund or partial refund. In contrast EC261 I think is much more obviously compensation.

The word "repay" is enough! If you have your money repaid, you are having a refund.

 

[blimmo]

I think there is also often a confusion with reference to purchasing goods where faulty goods can be returned for a refund. The (incorrect) analogy goes that you were delayed so your railway transport service was faulty (which is ofc what does actually happen when you choose not to travel but most people won't see the distinction here).

I have occasionally corrected friends on using refund casually to refer to delay repay which is always interpreted as pedantry because few people draw much distinction between the two concepts.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2025 ==

The word "repay" is enough! If you have your money repaid, you are having a refund.

Did they perhaps prioritise the catchy rhyme over accuracy in exactly what the scheme is?

 

[AlterEgo]

Did they perhaps prioritise the catchy rhyme over accuracy in exactly what the scheme is?

Doubtful. The compensation is linked and limited to the price of the ticket, unlike EC261.

 

[furlong]

The word "repay" is enough! If you have your money repaid, you are having a refund.

Indeed. They might call the other one Cancellation Repay. And throw in others like Unused Repay or I Gave Up Waiting And Drove There By Car Repay.

(They really should be required to introduce a uniform system - at the very least something on nationalrail that asks the right questions and redirects you to the most appropriate place.)

 

[styles]

I've decided to actually write to my MP about this.

Copy of my message..

Hi XXX,

I'm a constituent staying in XXX, and avid train user (writing this while on the Circle Line!)

I was reading a story today of somebody who bought a train ticket with TransPennine Express, then upgraded it to 1st class with SeatFrog. As both TPE and SeatFrog say on their FAQs, a SeatFrog upgrade is eligible for Delay Repay in case of a delay on a journey. This makes sense, because at the end of the day, it's still a 1st class ticket, just one obtained by an auction.

TPE accepted their Delay Repay claim for the standard class ticket, but not for the 1st class upgrades, stating explicitly that it's ineligible for Delay Repay. The passenger has responded by filing a formal complaint, which will almost certainly result in them being awarded Delay Repay compensation on their upgrade. However, SeatFrog is popular on TPE due to the food offering and cheap upgrade costs. I wonder how many other SeatFrog passengers on TPE or other train operating companies simply accept the TOC's claim that the ticket isn't eligible for Delay Repay.

If this were an isolated incident, I wouldn't consider it a big issue.

However, it's not isolated. I've selected a few posts from RailUK forums below where a passenger has made a valid claim for Delay Repay and initially had it rejected. No doubt the passengers eventually did get their compensation, but only after hitting back at one of the TOCs trying to deny their claim.

TPE refusing Delay Repay on a SeatFrog upgrade: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/delay-repay-with-seatfrog-tpe-denying-compensation.292459/

ScotRail refusing Delay Repay because the passenger happened to mention 'refund': https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/scotrail-refusing-full-journey-delay-repay.290102/

Northern refusing Delay Repay because they'd compensated the cost of a taxi: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-delay-repay-rejected-but-taxi-cost-refunded.291676/

LNER refusing Delay Repay because they believe another operator which the passenger didn't even plan to use is responsible, when it was LNER who caused the delay: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/delay-repay-re-20th-july-lner.290171/

Southeastern refusing a Delay Repay claim for a disabled passenger disrupted by an early terminating service: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/southeastern-delay-repay-help.289570/

CrossCountry refusing a Delay Repay claim be abuse the ticket wasn't bought from CrossCountry direct: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-rail-co-uk-and-not-their-own-website.291992/

EMR refusing a full Delay Repay claim because split tickets were being used: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-emr-declining-to-refund-full-journey.289605/

All of these posts are from the last few months alone, so it's not a rare occurrence, and there are many other such queries on the forums. I've taken a tiny selection to show the breadth of operators involved and the breadth of reasons they are refusing Delay Repay claims.

It's clear that almost every TOC, privatised or nationalised, and including Scotland's own national operator, is seemingly incompetent at handling Delay Repay claims, and arguably showing contempt for the travelling public.

I have serious concerns here that the typical RailUK Forums user is much more likely to know their rights and be persistent in their demand for the Delay Repay they're entitled to, while most passengers find even buying the cheapest ticket can sometimes be a challenge, let alone standing their ground on TOCs' liability to pay out Delay Repay.

I'm aware that the Office of Rail and Road have published reports recently about the inconsistent and sometimes unlawful practices TOCs employ for penalty fare enforcement. Do you think the ORR would be minded to report on and give recommendations regarding Delays Repay practices also?

My personal opinion is actually that a centralised body could be responsible for Delay Repay, and this could ensure consistency and fair application of the passenger-TOC contract. Do you have any thoughts on this?

I very much enjoy travelling by train including in the UK. Most of my journeys go to plan, the views are incredible, and customer service from staff on the ground is great. However I have myself had issues claiming Delay Repay when I've bought split tickets, even in the same transaction. Processing claims for Delay Repay on split tickets, SeatFrog upgrades etc should be very straightforward so when they're not processed properly, it comes across as if some of the TOCs have contempt for passengers and their rights.

Thank you for your consideration on this matter.

XXX

Will see how we get on.

 

[Hadders]

I think MPs will only normally get involed in cases that impact you.

 

[styles]

I think MPs will only normally get involed in cases that impact you.

Possibly. MPs are the route to ministers for most people however. If my MP comes back with such a response then I will detail some personal examples of delay repay issues.

 

[35B]

Possibly. MPs are the route to ministers for most people however. If my MP comes back with such a response then I will detail some personal examples of delay repay issues.

MPs have finite capacity, and will focus on matters that affect their constituency - normally by affecting constituents, but not necessarily. They (or, rather, their offices) also have a view of who write to them on particular topics, and have been known to use that to prioritise what matters they take up. A generalised "people are having problems" contact, followed by a personal "these are my issues" on the same broad topic may not be the best way to get them to engage. Alternatively, a letter that gives the MP's caseworker a clear sense of "this is why this matters in this constituency" is more likely to get traction.

 

[Haywain]

I would add that if your issue is, "I have problems claiming Delay Repay, but I get there in the end", they are not going to put a lot of effort into the matter.