Leighton Buzzard to "London Terminals" (West Brompton)

[beefy147]

Hello

I have been reading about this for a few hours now so will try and summarise thought process and questions. Appreciate any help you can offer.

I want to travel on Friday 5th August to West Brompton from Leighton Buzzard as a return ticket. London Midland are doing a sale at the moment so I can buy an off peak ticket to clapham junction with a railcard for £7.45 (breaking my journey at west brompton as cheaper than a west brompton only ticket!)

However I can also buy ticket to London Terminals for £4.60.

My question is this. Can I use a london terminal ticket to travel (in theory) to victoria (Leighton Buzzard to Clampham Junction to Victoria) as victoria is a london terminal (I believe clapham junction is not considered a london terminal). I would in reality break my journey at west brompton. My gut feeling is no and i would be liable for a fine if my ticket was checked.

Finally if this is a viable option would either ticket allow my through the barrier at west brompton as its not my final destination listed on the ticket.

Once again any help appreciated!


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and finally to add. the main reason i think this is not allowed is because of the following easement i found.

"Customers travelling via Willesden Junction to London Terminals may not
travel via Clapham Junction. This easement applies in both directions."

which suggests to me the only valid london terminal on the london midland line is Euston?

 

[Greenback]

I think your gut instinct is correct, but you may need to check the routeing guide for valid routes between Leighton Buzzard and London. The Rg does sometimes permit some surprising routes, often in error!

 

[beefy147]

where is the best place to get the routing guide?

is it ATOC's site? i checked here http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-settlement-plan/routeing-guide

its not the most simple thing to follow, i will give it a go tho!

 

[dzug2]

If you use the Southern service you don't pass through Willesden Junction (station).

I still don't think it's valid though

 

[beefy147]

ok so i checked the guide

my points are watford junction and london group

the valid map references are EN and OV

this only shows london and clapham junction. it doesnt stipulate victoria but essentially i think its a no! (

 

[MikeWh]

ok so i checked the guide

my points are watford junction and london group

the valid map references are EN and OV

this only shows london and clapham junction. it doesnt stipulate victoria but essentially i think its a no! (

On both those maps LONDON is Euston only.

 

[bb21]

ok so i checked the guide

my points are watford junction and london group

the valid map references are EN and OV

this only shows london and clapham junction. it doesnt stipulate victoria but essentially i think its a no! (

The title of map OV is "London Overground Routes". I know it doesn't specifically say "London Euston" on the map itself, however the only London Terminal served by the Overground is London Euston. It would have been far better had they been explicit.

I agree that a Leighton Buzzard - London Terminals ticket is not valid at London Victoria.

 

[beefy147]

fair enough. so a london terminal ticket via watford has to be used at Euston and can only be used at Euston.

might as well say Euston rather than terminals to avoid any confusion?

Looks like i have to get the clapham ticket which will likley list as via K.Olympia and cost more!

 

[Greenback]

I have now had a look at the Routeing Guide, and although I am not the world's greatest expert on it, I am satisfied that it does not apepar to allow travel to or via London Victoria on a Leighton Buzzard - London terminals ticket.

The Rg is not the easiest thing to understand, but it is trying to deal with a highly complex system. I believe it was described as a regrettable necessity under privatisation, as some system was needed to define what routes were reasonable both to allocate revenue and to protect against TOC's deciding on a whim what routes would be valid.

 

[beefy147]

The only other way around my issue is a travelcard as i can get off where i like then. however that costs more than both my options so not worth it.

a funny old game tickets and routes!

london terminals is very confusing and not many understand it. unless you have read up people could read it as anywhere that terminates in london. I am sure many have been fined before for this assumption?!

 

[Greenback]

The only other way around my issue is a travelcard as i can get off where i like then. however that costs more than both my options so not worth it.

a funny old game tickets and routes!

london terminals is very confusing and not many understand it. unless you have read up people could read it as anywhere that terminates in london. I am sure many have been fined before for this assumption?!

Yes, some people have assumed that such tickets are valid to any London Terminal station. Still, I never encountered anyone at Reading who seriously imagined that their ticket would entitle them to get across to Liverpool Street!

Such tickets used to be labelled as to or from London BR. This reflected the historical situation that existed following nationalisation, when routes such as Barnstaple to London, which had previously been served by the GWR and the SR, were now operated by one company who allowed travel into both Waterloo and Paddington via either route.

This benefit had to be protected on privatisation, but clearly London BR was no longer an option as a name! Terminals turned out to be one of the best of a rather limited number of options.

 

[LexyBoy]

The only other way around my issue is a travelcard as i can get off where i like then. however that costs more than both my options so not worth it.

Or use the London Terminals ticket as far as Willesden Junction, then Oyster to West Brompton, only £1.30 more.

 

[beefy147]

Or use the London Terminals ticket as far as Willesden Junction, then Oyster to West Brompton, only £1.30 more.

the southern trains dont stop at willesden junction they pass by it. nice idea tho but i would have to use oyster twice thus a saving of 25 pence doesnt seems worth the effort even for me!

I wonder what the options are from watford with oyster as i can get a watford only return for £3.25.... ill check
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£4.60 london terminals ticket, get off at wembly central and touch in oyster to west brompton £1.40 (zone 4-2). same in reverse using another oyster single and the return part of the ticket.

£7.40

save 5 pence

again not worth it but interesting options!

 

[MikeWh]

Remember that if you touch in during off-peak hours (0930-1600 and after 1900) you can get discounted fares on your Oyster providing your railcard has been added. Take both the Oyster and Railcard to Wembley Central ticket office and they should be able to sort it out. You may need to give them the password. The £1.40 fare comes down to 95p each way then. But if you touch in between 1600 and 1900 it jumps up to £2.20.
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How about this. Leighton Buzzard to Harrow & Wealdstone £4.15 then Oyster at 95p each way (£2.50 in afternoon peak though).

 

[beefy147]

Remember that if you touch in during off-peak hours (0930-1600 and after 1900) you can get discounted fares on your Oyster providing your railcard has been added. Take both the Oyster and Railcard to Wembley Central ticket office and they should be able to sort it out. You may need to give them the password. The £1.40 fare comes down to 95p each way then. But if you touch in between 1600 and 1900 it jumps up to £2.20.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
How about this. Leighton Buzzard to Harrow & Wealdstone £4.15 then Oyster at 95p each way (£2.50 in afternoon peak though).

mike. my railcard is a network railcard. can i still get oyster discount with this? what do you mean the password? its an interesting option... especially with the oyster discount if i can get it!

the out and return would be both off peak!

 

[LexyBoy]

mike. my railcard is a network railcard. can i still get oyster discount with this?

Unfortunately not, Network Railcard isn't enoysterable.

 

[MikeWh]

Sorry about that. I should have checked which card you had.

 

[IainH]

I don't have a recent avantix, but there used to be (about 3 years ago last time I looked) a specific fare Milton Keynes (but not Leighton Buzzard) - Victoria and Waterloo route Clapham Junction. I never managed to get it to come up in any of the journey planners.

 

[bb21]

I don't have a recent avantix, but there used to be (about 3 years ago last time I looked) a specific fare Milton Keynes (but not Leighton Buzzard) - Victoria and Waterloo route Clapham Junction. I never managed to get it to come up in any of the journey planners.

Indeed there is.

Milton Keynes Central - London Victoria or London Waterloo
Route Clapham Junction
Off-Peak Day Return £19.90 Restriction C0
Off-Peak Return £20.10 Restriction 4B
Anytime Day Return £39.00