South Wales Metro - Future

[hilly]

Good to hear on both counts: if Hirwaun is reached, perhaps a local mini bus operator could link the trains with the zip line attraction at the former Tower Colliery as well as the village of Penderyn. As well as serving the locals, Penderyn also has the whisky distillery tourist attraction and a footpath leading to Scwd-y-Eira waterfall.

A new Velindre Hospital is being built just to the west of what is now the Coryton terminus and I believe it is the intention to at least extend the line to a new station by the hospital. The ultimate goal for this line would be to reach Radyr and thus form a circular route around many densely populated Cardiff suburbs.

The extension to a velindre site would be easy enough, however to get to the radyr line would require a very sharp turn between this point https://maps.app.goo.gl/FQiJKhSm6rAjDEPg8?g_st=ipc and the m4, a significant drop in height along longwood drive, a river crossing and then a junction into the radyr lines north of the station - if you’ve got unlimited money easily doable, otherwise not a chance of it happening

 

[anthony263]

A extra 1tph over the VOG would be done by diverting one of the etph barry island services so barry island and Bridgend via VOG both get 2tph.

I was told the range on thw batteries on the 756s was proving to be greater than what Stadler originally predicted personally in then future i hope we see the wires extended to Penarth and Barry at least

 

[positron]

A extra 1tph over the VOG would be done by diverting one of the etph barry island services so barry island and Bridgend via VOG both get 2tph.

I was told the range on thw batteries on the 756s was proving to be greater than what Stadler originally predicted personally in then future i hope we see the wires extended to Penarth and Barry at least

I suspect we'll see at least a fixed conductor bar at Penarth but I hope proper OLE on the branch line. Though even that might not be enough to get the trams there (which is going to be what runs there in future realistically).

As for Hirwaun I think it would be a great transport interchange for a heads of the valley bus service too.

Velindre also seems a no brainer, maybe even an extension to Asda for a park and ride.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Sep 2025 ==

I suspect we'll see at least a fixed conductor bar at Penarth but I hope proper OLE on the branch line. Though even that might not be enough to get the trams there (which is going to be what runs there in future realistically).

As for Hirwaun I think it would be a great transport interchange for a heads of the valley bus service too.

Velindre also seems a no brainer, maybe even an extension to Asda for a park and ride.

Having said all that a service up to Nelson on the existing freight line that's recently closed also seems a no brainer so who knows what ever actually happens.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Good to hear on both counts: if Hirwaun is reached, perhaps a local mini bus operator could link the trains with the zip line attraction at the former Tower Colliery as well as the village of Penderyn. As well as serving the locals, Penderyn also has the whisky distillery tourist attraction and a footpath leading to Scwd-y-Eira waterfall.

Wouldn't it be simpler to make Tower rather than Hirwaun the rail terminus? I'm presuming the formation still stretches that far and hasn't been obliterated by the A465 improvements.

 

[positron]

Wouldn't it be simpler to make Tower rather than Hirwaun the rail terminus? I'm presuming the formation still stretches that far and hasn't been obliterated by the A465 improvements.

Well some of the plans do include an extension beyond Hirwaun itself to the industrial estate (which is I think where the tower colliery is). Ultimately, they should build whatever they can get a good business case for, so it finally happens.

 

[Daniel Boone]

Well some of the plans do include an extension beyond Hirwaun itself to the industrial estate (which is I think where the tower colliery is). Ultimately, they should build whatever they can get a good business case for, so it finally happens.

Preferably to somewhere beginning with a vowel.

 

[chrisjo]

The railway line went to the present 'Tower Surface Colliery' site just south of Hirwain. The zipline attraction is on the site of the Tower Deep Mine, which is about another mile and a half further to the southwest, as the crow flies. Neither of these are the same as the Hirwaun Industrial Estate/Power Station site which is west of Hirwaun, along a different bit of former line that has been entirely built over. The A465 crosses the former line to the Tower Surface Colliery over a high bridge, but I can't think of any possible reason why anyone would want to re-instate it.

 

[Topological]

They should just go all the way down the valley through Glynneath

A more sensible option might be a terminus somewhere near the A4059 so that a car park can be built within ready reach of the road network. That would be a bad location for Hirwaun station so would need to be a Hirwaun Parkway in the same vein as the Ebbw Vale Parkway.

 

[tigermonstera]

For context, the most recent public plans would have a station by Maes y Ffion in Llwydcoed, and near Elm Grove in Hirwaun. RCT council's submission to the Regional Transport Plan from back in January describes the scheme as:

Aberdare to Hirwaun – reinstatement of passenger services and new rail stations at Llwydcoed, Hirwaun and potential to extend to Hir Ind Est.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Sep 2025 ==

Additionally, RCT Council owns a site across the river from the proposed Llwydcoed station which they have said could be used as a Park and Ride. A site plan proposal from 2021/2022 can be seen here under item 15, Appendix B.

 

[MikePJ]

Since we’re talking trams (and no overhead wires on the street) there’s a lot of flexibility in terms of route. I wouldn’t be surprised if we end up with some diversions from the old trackbed.

 

[chrisjo]

the most recent public plans would have a station by Maes y Ffion in Llwydcoed, and near Elm Grove in Hirwaun

Elm Grove is where the old station was. I think the platforms are still there.

 

[Topological]

Elm Grove is where the old station was. I think the platforms are still there.

Looks like it: Google Map to crossing near Elm Grove


ALT TEXT: Google maps view towards Cardiff. Elm Grove is behind the hedge/trees on the right. The overgrown railway can be seen stretching into the distance.

 

[Envoy]

They certainly should extend the line as far as the A4059 where ex colliery waste land on the SW side could be used for car parking with easy access from a junction with the A465 expressway. That would allow people from outlying villages such as Rhigos, Glyn Neath and Penderyn to park and then use the Metro. Such a station at this location would have optimum space for a small bus interchange station with connections to the nearby tourist attractions such as Tower Zip Line, Penderyn Distillery and the path to Scwd y Eira from Penderyn.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Preferably to somewhere beginning with a vowel.

Not quite sure what your point is, unless it's some old fashioned racist trope.

For the record Welsh has seven vowels compared to just five in English. A, e, i, o, u, w and y are all vowels in the Welsh alphabet although the last two can also be used as consanants.

 

[The exile]

For the record Welsh has seven vowels

…. As in fact does English- the main difference being that “w” is never used on its own, but it’s still an “oo” sound. Weird linguistic classification at some point, probably based on the idea that Latin is the model of perfection.

 

[Daniel Boone]


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Not quite sure what your point is, unless it's some old fashioned racist trope.

For the record Welsh has seven vowels compared to just five in English. A, e, i, o, u, w and y are all vowels in the Welsh alphabet although the last two can also be used as consanants.

Excuse me...? For any future acronym to work when referring to the collection of lines, a vowel would be necessary. TAM... Changing the terminus of the middle line from Aberdare to Hirwaun would make it THM. An awful joke on my part.
And as for being racist, sorry for appearing to be.
Edit: Didn't want to be nasty

 

[positron]

Call them the RCT lines for the valley names?

 

[Daniel Boone]

Call them the RCT lines for the valley names?

Very pedantic but not an acronym but nonetheless describes it perfectly.

 

[Topological]

Very pedantic but not an acronym but nonetheless describes it perfectly.

Randomised Controlled Trial

Used when you want to test the effect of a treatment without bias. Opening to Hirwaun is not an RCT, but the 398s arguably are since only some lines get 398s and data on all lines can be used to examine the effect.

 

[MikePJ]

James Price's appearance on the Green Signals podcast contained a little note of interest on metro expansion: he confirmed that the Cardiff West Junction upgrade is planned to get 4tph on the City line and the Coryton line (the latter will also require a passing loop), but he also mentioned that, subject to funding, they could also add a junction that would allow the street-level tram platforms to connect to the main line. That funding isn't in place yet, but the fact that he's saying it out loud suggests he's negotiating for it. Meanwhile, Rail Magazine reports that track renewal is due in the Cardiff West area in 2027-2028 (presumably over the winter months) and that the junction upgrade would come as part of that:

At the Railway Industry Association Wales Rail Summit, Emma Osborn, Network Rail Passenger Strategy Director for Wales, told attendees a scissor crossover will be installed in what is “primarily a track and signalling scheme”.


“It’s going to be delivered on the back of renewals that are planned for 27/28, so the detailed design for that starts next year and we’ll have development funding even in this financial year to keep working on that scheme,” she said.

Further down the article, we get the following timeline for other upgrades:

On the Core Valley Lines (CVL) that run into Cardiff, Transport for Wales (TfW) is due to bring out tenders for three stations over the coming months. They are for:


Improving the customer experience at Caerphilly station with the creation of a new bus and rail interchange. Market engagement in December 2025, bring out tender in early 2026, award in May 2026. Start construction February 2027.


A brand new Crwys Road station, north of Cardiff Queen Street, is expected to have 900,000 passengers by 2029 and bring in £1.2 million of revenue. Bring out tender in January 2026, award in June 2026. Construction start July 2027.


Heath High Level station enhancements including a new road bridge, platform repairs and better access. Bring out tender in March 2026, award in May 2026. Start construction September 2027.


Explaining the work, Dan Tipper, TfW Chief Infrastructure Officer, said the programme was rephased in late last year to focus on electrification of the lines before turning attention back towards stations and track enhancements in 2026 and 2027.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Given the financial constraints I think TfW is right to prioritise additional stations over northern extentions. Crwys Rd in particular is likely to be highly popular and profitable given the number of students who live in that part of town.

I'm a bit disappointed though to see no mention of the proposed Gabalfa and Ely Mill stations.

 

[Topological]

Given the financial constraints I think TfW is right to prioritise additional stations over northern extentions. Crwys Rd in particular is likely to be highly popular and profitable given the number of students who live in that part of town.

I'm a bit disappointed though to see no mention of the proposed Gabalfa and Ely Mill stations.

Which financial constraints, though?

TfW have constraints in their present budget, but do not have constraints if the Welsh Government decide to invest in the transport infrastructure. The Welsh Government has budgetary powers and is not subjected to the same constraints. IF so desired, the same party governs in Westminster and could fund to promote growth in these areas which are crying out for inward investment.

I agree that stations are better with limited funds, but the question of the need to limit should be being asked of TfW regularly.

 

[John R]

Given the financial constraints I think TfW is right to prioritise additional stations over northern extentions. Crwys Rd in particular is likely to be highly popular and profitable given the number of students who live in that part of town.

I'm a bit disappointed though to see no mention of the proposed Gabalfa and Ely Mill stations.

I’m not sure how profitable given it is one stop from Queen St.

And I guess Welsh taxpayers might regard improving connectivity in a relatively deprived part of the country a better use of their money than catering for a transient student population in the thriving capital city who have a pretty good bus network anyway.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

I’m not sure how profitable given it is one stop from Queen St.

And I guess Welsh taxpayers might regard improving connectivity in a relatively deprived part of the country a better use of their money than catering for a transient student population in the thriving capital city who have a pretty good bus network anyway.

Cathays is far closer to Queen Street and is very well used. As far as Welsh taxpayers are concerned, a station that turns a profit, as Crwys Rd undoubtedly will, is a net contributor to the network, not a drain on recources.

As far as bus services are concerned, I'm guessing you've never experienced City Road or Whitchurch Road in rush hour.

 

[John R]

Cathays is far closer to Queen Street and is very well used. As far as Welsh taxpayers are concerned, a station that turns a profit, as Crwys Rd undoubtedly will, is a net contributor to the network, not a drain on recources.

As far as bus services are concerned, I'm guessing you've never experienced City Road or Whitchurch Road in rush hour.

Cathays is much closer to the Uni and Civic Centre for inbound commuting than Crwys Road will be.

I'm not sure how you can be so certain that Crwys Road will undoubtedly turn a profit. Unless of course you are privvy to any financial analysis that TfW has carried out.

Finally, it's a fair point re congestion. I always hate Newport Road eastbound for the first half mile too as you exit the city centre.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

I'm not sure how you can be so certain that Crwys Road will undoubtedly turn a profit. Unless of course you are privvy to any financial analysis that TfW has carried out.

I'm not privy to anything that's not in the public domain. But in the project's early stages an analysis projected a total demand of 900,000 passengers by 2029, bringing in a revenue of £1.247 million per annum.

On the other side of the balance sheet, the costs are marginal since no additional services are planned and the station will presumably be unstaffed.

I think it's a no-brainer that a link between Cardiff's main student residential area and the city centre universities is going to prove popular. I mean who's going to chose a twenty to thirty minute bus trip over five minutes on the train?

 

[slowroad]

I'm not privy to anything that's not in the public domain. But in the project's early stages an analysis projected a total demand of 900,000 passengers by 2029, bringing in a revenue of £1.247 million per annum.

On the other side of the balance sheet, the costs are marginal since no additional services are planned and the station will presumably be unstaffed.

I think it's a no-brainer that a link between Cardiff's main student residential area and the city centre universities is going to prove popular. I mean who's going to chose a twenty to thirty minute bus trip over five minutes on the train.

May well be worthwhile due to time saving but not necessarily a gain to Welsh taxpayers if it is a simple revenue transfer from Cardiff Bus.

 

[positron]

Cardiff bus is council funded, not central government though, so it's not quite that simple, also I suspect that station along with the existing and worsening congestion in the area will lead to modal shift away from cars as well as from the bus.

 

[chrisjo]

the existing and worsening congestion in the area

Caused to a significant part by the retrograde changes made to the traffic light sequencing at 'Hangman's Crossroads' a few years ago.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Caused to a significant part by the retrograde changes made to the traffic light sequencing at 'Hangman's Crossroads' a few years ago.

Interesting that you call it that, it's always been 'death junction' to me. It was, of course, where public hangings took place in the middle ages, hence the names. Incidently when it comes to naming the new station I think a simple 'Crwys' would suffice rather than going the long way round with 'Heol y Crwys / Crwys Road'.