Making a will, should I use a will writer or a solicitor?

[35B]

The wife & I have done the same.

One thing that I’m not sure about. If you make a will, but you don’t tell anyone you’ve made a will, when you die how will others know you’ve made a will? Do solicitors put your names onto something like a national database for example, so that when you die your name is typed in and it comes up with your name if you have made a will.

Apologies if this is a question with an obvious answer which I haven’t thought of.

So who are the executors? They at least should know.

Personally, I’m with the idea of a “when I die” folder, with all of the key information in it so you’re saved a load of phoning round trying to work out what’s what.

 

[Gloster]

As I am in the situation of having to have my lawyers as the executors, I have a bit of card on my notice board in the hall that says ‘My will is held by X’.

 

[ainsworth74]

Do it! If for any reason you become unable to make decisions for yourself, it will make things a lot easier for those you trust to look after you.

I'm a firm believer that everyone should have granted power of attorneys to someone they trust to manage their affairs. It's far far simpler and cheaper to set up PoA than any of the other options. Particularly as the moment you might need it (lack of capacity), is the moment you can't grant it anymore!

Plus it can be useful even when someone still has capacity but needs help managing their affairs. My grandfather granted it to me and my mum (his daughter) as once he reached his 90s and finally had to go into a care home he was much happier for us to manage the nitty gritty of his affairs and just keep him informed. He had capacity to do it all himself throughout but it worked better for everyone if we did it.

It's not horrendously expensive and you can almost certainly do it yourself. So sort a will out and then sort out power of attorney people!

 

[Jimini]

I'm a firm believer that everyone should have granted power of attorneys to someone they trust to manage their affairs. It's far far simpler and cheaper to set up PoA than any of the other options. Particularly as the moment you might need it (lack of capacity), is the moment you can't grant it anymore!

Plus it can be useful even when someone still has capacity but needs help managing their affairs. My grandfather granted it to me and my mum (his daughter) as once he reached his 90s and finally had to go into a care home he was much happier for us to manage the nitty gritty of his affairs and just keep him informed. He had capacity to do it all himself throughout but it worked better for everyone if we did it.

It's not horrendously expensive and you can almost certainly do it yourself. So sort a will out and then sort out power of attorney people!

100% this. When my late father's health started to deteriorate (COPD), having PoA made life so much easier (both health and financial), and he also laid out all his financials and the location of his will etc. in a letter to me. Would have taken at least 18 months to unpick everything if he hadn't (ultimately took me just shy of a year to get everything sorted).

 

[jfollows]

I have a lasting power of attorney (both types) set up, but the process and the people who administer it are a complete pain. They insist on paperwork and returned the whole wodge to me for a stupid and incorrect reason, so I had to send it back to them again. However it’s worth doing.
I set up a will through a local solicitor using a free service sponsored by a charity, in my case the Stroke Association, to whom I also leave some money. Relatively painless. Much easier than the PoA.

 

[dangie]

So who are the executors? They at least should know.

Personally, I’m with the idea of a “when I die” folder, with all of the key information in it so you’re saved a load of phoning round trying to work out what’s what.

Yes I had thought of that after I asked the question, but there's also chance that the executors may die before you or you've simply lost contact with them and never gave your will a thought. There has to be some form of system that flags up if you have made a will.

 

[WesternLancer]

2. If my wife and I draft identical wills, will solicitors charge the full cost, or offer a discount since both wills will read the same apart from names etc?

Good question! I think these might be called mirror wills.

I guess ring a few local solicitors and ask for some quotes to do wills on this basis vs just doing one will. It must be a common approach.

 

[simonw]

1. Powers of Attorney are also useful if you need to manage an elderly persons finances and bank accounts, especially if they are unable to sign anything.

2. If my wife and I draft identical wills, will solicitors charge the full cost, or offer a discount since both wills will read the same apart from names etc?

Most will offer a discount, but best check before agreeing a price

 

[WesternLancer]

Some people I think make their wills simpler by also having a ‘letter of wishes’ which helps the executor carry out their wishes but I think is not legally binding on the executor so you have to trust your executors to carry it out. Probably not something for the bulk of your estate to be covered by or any item you 100% want to gaurantee must happen

Eg it might help an executor if you had a letter of wishes that said ‘I would like my railwayana collection to be offered to the Severn Valley Railway for them to use or sell as they see fit’.
Versus having a clause in the will saying the same thing

The latter makes the executors legally obliged to offer it to the Severn Valley Railway (and the SVR could take legal action against the executors if it didn’t happen). The former just helps the executors know what you’d like them to do.

Many other deserving railway groups can be chosen…

This can help if you think of a home for things that might be appreciated for certain belongings that an executor might not know what to do with. For example train spotting note books or pictures / negatives that may have no real financial value but might be appreciated by a club or spotting friends that a family executor might think was just worthless rubbish.
But vital for answering questions on this forum about which loco hauled 1m58 on 27 September 1978 for example!

I hope I have this correct.

Having said that a decent solicitor would include a few named charitable bequests in the will, if you wanted them to do so, without inflating their charge for the work I would think.

I believe there are inheritance tax benefits from giving in will to a charity (no doubt why many of the big charities have services to help with will making as mentioned above).

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One thing that I’m not sure about. If you make a will, but you don’t tell anyone you’ve made a will, when you die how will others know you’ve made a will? Do solicitors put your names onto something like a national database for example, so that when you die your name is typed in and it comes up with your name if you have made a will.

Apologies if this is a question with an obvious answer which I haven’t thought of.

Another good question! Not sure if there is a central database though

Vital to tell executors in my view even if you don’t want to tell anyone of will content

You don’t want to create a scenario where your house is being cleared and the stuff mostly gone to the tip and someone opens the last cupboard in the house and finds the will instructing x y z actions!

 

[35B]

Yes I had thought of that after I asked the question, but there's also chance that the executors may die before you or you've simply lost contact with them and never gave your will a thought. There has to be some form of system that flags up if you have made a will.

Bluntly, it’s on you to do what’s required to ensure that those dealing with your affairs after you die know what’s what. Before you even get to the will, there are minor matters like the funeral.

My father died suddenly early this year. My brothers and I knew a certain amount, but it was really important for us to find whatever we could to ensure we got it right. Because it wasn’t neatly gathered, that was harder than it might have been.

That “when I’m gone” folder is a really good idea to make sure that all who need to know do - you may not have the chance to brief them

 

[Jimini]

That “when I’m gone” folder is a really good idea to make sure that all who need to know do - you may not have the chance to brief them

Just on this very valid point: both my parents used fireproof cases to stash all their documents in. Something worth considering as well.

 

[davews]

The wife & I have done the same.

One thing that I’m not sure about. If you make a will, but you don’t tell anyone you’ve made a will, when you die how will others know you’ve made a will? Do solicitors put your names onto something like a national database for example, so that when you die your name is typed in and it comes up with your name if you have made a will.

Apologies if this is a question with an obvious answer which I haven’t thought of.

I asked my solicitor this very question. It seems there is no national register for wills and if you apply for a will search they will initially start by asking all the solicitors in the town where you live if they have a will for you. Which seems a bit strange in this day and age. Of course I have told my executors there is a will and when they find the copy in my documents it will tell them where the original is lodged.

Unlike Powers of Attorneys which have to be registered and presumably easily found - but I think you need the master copy if you want to be set up as power of attorney with a bank for instance.

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By the way my previous will, now updated, had my brother and the solicitor I did it through as executors. The will had words like 'or the firm of solicitors who takes over blogs.co'. In the event after several take overs that firm of solicitors went totally out of business and I had the master returned to me. Then this year my brother died which led to the will having no executors at all. The new will has my niece and nephew as executors and no mention of solicitors.

 

[WesternLancer]

I asked my solicitor this very question. It seems there is no national register

Yes does seem odd I agree!

. The new will has my niece and nephew as executors and no mention of solicitors.

Yes my point above. Allows your niece and nephew the freedom to choose the professional help of their choice which always seems helpful to me.

With a relative of mine he suggested a solicitors firm he used in his letter of wishes who were indeed good and we used them, but we had the choice to vary it should we have felt the desire to do so.

 

[Gloster]

The bulk of my estate will end up going to two friends but the wording of my will makes it clear as to how the money is to be divided if one of them or even one of their children should predecease me; I think that solicitors have a standard wording for this. If you are making a spouse or family member who you spend a lot of time with a legatee consider a clause that takes into account the possibility that they might die soon after you, such as certain conditions only come into force if they survive you by a month. (I have memories of a story about a distant family member who was killed in an accident and their wife lingered for a day or two before dying. Much of the estate was spent on a case over who should inherit.)

There are financial advantages in leaving a percentage (10%, I think) of your estate to charity, although this may only be for larger estates. If you do leave anything to charity, try and make clear what you want done if the charity is dissolved or absorbed by another; again there appears to be a standard wording to go into wills for this.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Another good question! Not sure if there is a central database though

UK Will Register and Search Services - The National Will Register

The National Will Register is trusted by the public and legal professionals to register and search for wills in the UK.

www.nationalwillregister.co.uk

 

[WesternLancer]

UK Will Register and Search Services - The National Will Register

The National Will Register is trusted by the public and legal professionals to register and search for wills in the UK.

www.nationalwillregister.co.uk

Looks helpful!

 

[35B]

The bulk of my estate will end up going to two friends but the wording of my will makes it clear as to how the money is to be divided if one of them or even one of their children should predecease me; I think that solicitors have a standard wording for this. If you are making a spouse or family member who you spend a lot of time with a legatee consider a clause that takes into account the possibility that they might die soon after you, such as certain conditions only come into force if they survive you by a month. (I have memories of a story about a distant family member who was killed in an accident and their wife lingered for a day or two before dying. Much of the estate was spent on a case over who should inherit.)

There are financial advantages in leaving a percentage (10%, I think) of your estate to charity, although this may only be for larger estates. If you do leave anything to charity, try and make clear what you want done if the charity is dissolved or absorbed by another; again there appears to be a standard wording to go into wills for this.

This is where a good professional will really help. When we did our wills (as mirrors), we ended up doing quite a long decision tree to work out who might inherit what and under what circumstances, bearing in mind that our kids were then still very young. There were a number of quite uncomfortable "if this then that" type conversations that followed which really helped us work out our thinking.

The will itself is fairly much standard text, but its how the bits of standard text are knitted together that really counts.

 

[dangie]

Making all the provisions for your Will and Funeral etc would be much simpler if you knew exactly when you are going to die, but (probably fortunately) most of us do not. At what age should you make a Will?

 

[WesternLancer]

Making all the provisions for your Will and Funeral etc would be much simpler if you knew exactly when you are going to die, but (probably fortunately) most of us do not. At what age should you make a Will?

I suspect that as soon as you have any assets of significant value (define significant one’s self) and or possessions you specifically want to ensure are handed to a named person or beneficiary.

In my case it was when we bought a house as that was the first time I’d ever engaged with a solicitor so it was handy to then get them to do a will as I’d found the solicitor good in the house purchase process.

I was in my late twenties iirc.

Things like having children/ being married - civil partners / not being married but co habiting / being separated but not divorced are all important factors that impact on what might happen to your assets on death without a will. in some cases things would happen that you really might not want (depending on who qualifies as next of kin I think) in the event of death without a will.

 

[35B]

I suspect that as soon as you have any assets of significant value (define significant one’s self) and or possessions you specifically want to ensure are handed to a named person or beneficiary.

In my case it was when we bought a house as that was the first time I’d ever engaged with a solicitor so it was handy to then get them to do a will as I’d found the solicitor good in the house purchase process.

I was in my late twenties iirc.

Things like having children/ being married - civil partners / not being married but co habiting / being separated but not divorced are all important factors that impact on what might happen to your assets on death without a will. in some cases things would happen that you really might not want (depending on who qualifies as next of kin I think) in the event of death without a will.

This. Just to add that if you have written a will before marriage, it is voided on marriage.

 

[SuspectUsual]

This. Just to add that if you have written a will before marriage, it is voided on marriage.

Not quite

A standard will is voided upon marriage but you can make a will in the knowledge that you’re going to get married (the legal term is in anticipation of marriage) and they are not voided upon marriage.

Also, if you get divorced your will does not become void

 

[WesternLancer]

This. Just to add that if you have written a will before marriage, it is voided on marriage.

Wow. I didn’t know that!

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Not quite

A standard will is voided upon marriage but you can make a will in the knowledge that you’re going to get married (the legal term is in anticipation of marriage) and they are not voided upon marriage.

Also, if you get divorced your will does not become void

And thanks for this additional info

 

[styles]

Just a reminder that this

This. Just to add that if you have written a will before marriage, it is voided on marriage.

Just to add - this is not the case in Scotland.

If you're considering your will / power of attorney position in Scotland, it's best to search for advice specifically related to Scotland as the law is quite different in many respects. I've just helped a family member up here through their will+PoA and it was quite different to when I did my own in England.

 

[Hadders]

Another vote to use a solicitor.

I sorted my will a couple of years ago. I also sorted a power of attorney out as well, simply because if I was to become incapacitated my attorney could step in and make decisions on my behalf.

 

[david1212]

Yes a local hospice I’ve had dealings with & supported are doing the will week with a local recommended solicitor that is paid immediately to then get the referral code sent at a minimum stipulated cost of £240

That is totally different to my local hospice. Make appointment with solicitor, work through details, solicitor creates initial draft will, work through to final draft, make donation to hospice online giving details to link to solicitor ( old school give cheque or even cash to solicitor in sealed envelope ), hospice confirms donation received, final meeting with solicitor to sign will.

Do not appoint the professional as an executor in the will - because if you do your executors (who may be your children) can't change who that professional is and they effectively have a licence to charge for their services as an executor, which depending on their hourly rate could be a lot of money. If you have trusted executors from your family or friends they can then have the freedom to get quotes for different professionals to help them Execute the will- it may be that you can make a clause in the will that a professional must be appointed to help the executors, but the executors just agree on who that professional is. If the executors are responsible for appointing the professional they are able to ensure that they have their say over who they wish to do it, and to dismiss them if they are not doing a good job etc. If the Executor is specified in the will there is little or no power to do that.

So long as you have someone you can trust to appoint as your executor and they agree fine plus this reduces costs. If not though no option to appoint a professional, currently my executor is the solicitor who produced the will. I was told the charge typically is 3 - 4 % of value of estate.

Problems tend to occur for executors if charities get percentages rather than fixed amounts because they might have to demonstrate value of estate before charities share was correct. Some seem to not trust executors word they aren't being short changed.

Interesting. Neither the previous solicitor or the current one have mentioned this. Fixed amounts are fine if together a small proportion of the the total 'cash' but if combined charities are to receive all or the majority what is the alternative? One way there is a large residual amount while the other way the pot of cash could be less than the total of the fixed donations e.g. if a large amount goes to the state for care fees.

One thing that I’m not sure about. If you make a will, but you don’t tell anyone you’ve made a will, when you die how will others know you’ve made a will? Do solicitors put your names onto something like a national database for example, so that when you die your name is typed in and it comes up with your name if you have made a will.

Right now a copy of my will is in what ought to be an obvious place to look if worst case police had to break into the house.

Just on this very valid point: both my parents used fireproof cases to stash all their documents in. Something worth considering as well.

A fireproof box in an obvious place is a good idea.

UK Will Register and Search Services - The National Will Register

The National Will Register is trusted by the public and legal professionals to register and search for wills in the UK.

www.nationalwillregister.co.uk

Thank you for this as not something I had even considered.

Personally, I’m with the idea of a “when I die” folder, with all of the key information in it so you’re saved a load of phoning round trying to work out what’s what.

I have given the solicitor a list of bank etc. accounts and people to contact.

You should also consider getting power of attorneys set up as well if you haven't already done so.

Easy if you have family or a very trusted friend to appoint who really ought to be at least several years younger than you. If not then what are the options? The solicitor again, a financial business, ...... ?

 

[ainsworth74]

Easy if you have family or a very trusted friend to appoint who really ought to be at least several years younger than you. If not then what are the options? The solicitor again, a financial business, ...... ?

At that point you'd likely end up with a Deputy appointed by the Court of Protection on application of most likely your council's Adult Social Services. Some solicitors can end up acting a deputies for people following appointment by the Court of Protection but it's a chargeable service so that's only likely to happen to people with substantial resources. Joe Bloggs with no suitable family or trusted friends to give Power of Attorney (if you made that arrangement prior to becoming incapacitated) or to apply for Deputyship (if you no longer had capacity at the point you needed someone) is probably going to end up with the council taking on the role.

 

[WesternLancer]

So long as you have someone you can trust to appoint as your executor and they agree fine plus this reduces costs. If not though no option to appoint a professional, currently my executor is the solicitor who produced the will. I was told the charge typically is 3 - 4 % of value of estate.

Point very well made of course - not everyone will have relatives or friends they wish to become their executors for any number of reasons, so your options would be more limited and a trusted professional must surely then be the best option. For example if you did not have younger relatives or friends you might not wish to burden people of advanced years themselves with the task, or simply if you thought you might outlive them.

Easy if you have family or a very trusted friend to appoint who really ought to be at least several years younger than you. If not then what are the options? The solicitor again, a financial business, ...... ?

Interesting point - there was a BBC Radio 4 series about an aspect of this not so long ago that I listened to - it was very concerning about aspects of this.
Summary below

BBC Radio 4 - Shadow World, The Willpower Detectives

Power of attorney - what can go wrong? Concerned neighbours ask Sue Mitchell for help.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Willpower Detectives​

Shadow World

Something about this doesn't add up. In Hertfordshire towns, people who live alone are disappearing. Their neighbours are wondering why they've not seen them, or if they might have died.
Giving someone else control of your finances and decisions - through Lasting Power of Attorney - is meant to come with a guarantee that they always act in your best interest. In this series, BBC investigative reporter Sue Mitchell explores a widespread business practice where some people are moved out of their homes and left with no idea what is happening to their money.
It often involves people with little or no family to ask questions about where they are moved to, or to challenge the fees involved. It can be people who've accumulated wealth over a lifetime, whose assets are now helping to fund those who are taking decisions for them.
The series looks at the loopholes that allow it to happen and the relationship between care homes, social workers and a business taking on a huge number of powers of attorney. It begins with the concerned friends and relatives who want to know what has happened to their neighbour or loved one; Where have they gone? And why has their home been emptied and sold?
This is an original investigation, with recordings in real time, exploring how power of attorney orders can be used for better or worse.

 

[simonw]

That is totally different to my local hospice. Make appointment with solicitor, work through details, solicitor creates initial draft will, work through to final draft, make donation to hospice online giving details to link to solicitor ( old school give cheque or even cash to solicitor in sealed envelope ), hospice confirms donation received, final meeting with solicitor to sign will.


So long as you have someone you can trust to appoint as your executor and they agree fine plus this reduces costs. If not though no option to appoint a professional, currently my executor is the solicitor who produced the will. I was told the charge typically is 3 - 4 % of value of estate.


Interesting. Neither the previous solicitor or the current one have mentioned this. Fixed amounts are fine if together a small proportion of the the total 'cash' but if combined charities are to receive all or the majority what is the alternative? One way there is a large residual amount while the other way the pot of cash could be less than the total of the fixed donations e.g. if a large amount goes to the state for care fees.


Right now a copy of my will is in what ought to be an obvious place to look if worst case police had to break into the house.


A fireproof box in an obvious place is a good idea.


Thank you for this as not something I had even considered.


I have given the solicitor a list of bank etc. accounts and people to contact.



Easy if you have family or a very trusted friend to appoint who really ought to be at least several years younger than you. If not then what are the options? The solicitor again, a financial business, ...... ?

3- 4% could turn out to be a hefty sum. I wouldn't recommend that route.


solicitor worth their salt would word the will to accommodate the fact that care fees or other costs could eat in to the value of the estate and thus adjusted if there is insufficient monies to pay them in full. You can also word the will such that they are only paid after certain other legacies have,been paid, if enough remains

 

[SuspectUsual]

have given the solicitor a list of bank etc. accounts and people to contact.

Another tip I was given - this is a good idea but provide the full names, especially if the first and last names are relatively commonplace

 

[Ivor]

What are solicitors actually getting out of this ‘free service’ of will writing? Maybe as below in my next paragraph?

Looking on line it seems they often upsell by way of promoting themselves to become executor or sorting out probate where required.

In this world companies do not do anything in business for no return.