GWML severe disruption PAD-RDG due to OHLE issues (18 Sep)

[Bletchleyite]

Where is the battery Class 230 when you need it ?

Don't forget 80x can run on diesel.

 

[Watershed]

As I said, seems like the problem wasn’t isolated until much much later on and after energising several times previously, it tripped all 4 lines Paddington to Maidenhead.

Did they really have no idea where the problem lay? I would have thought that neutral sections would allow the problem to be narrowed down quite quickly.

Then you isolate that section and run a service over the rest of the line until the problem has been fixed. Am I missing something obvious?

What would you suggest? Other that local bus ticket acceptance (which was in place but not mentioned)

Ticket acceptance is useless if it's not mentioned. Not everyone will even know what local bus routes there are. I wouldn't know off the top of my head even though it's a route I travel on regularly. I'd have to hope I can coerce a journey planner into finding bus alternatives rather than suggesting trains that won't run.

and emergency buses (unavailable)

Why was no attempt made to run any sort of replacement bus service between the outer stations? Again, those are the ones where there are fewer alternatives but also fewer passengers.

It's something that plenty of other operators seem to manage so I don't understand why TfL seem so against it.

and no electric trains allowed, you really do run out of options. The nature of the isolation and the large sections of OLE do not help. You’re basically looking at taxis for people stuck at stations and stranded.

And taxis should absolutely have been authorised. See what SWR do during major disruption - put a message on their website making clear that alternative transport costs will be reimbursed and how to claim for them.

Even with local buses, they often finish by 2100-2200 in the outer areas. Looks like GWR ran an IET or two on diesel for Slough / Maidenhead / Twyford / Reading

That would still have been a great help for the 3-4 hours that there were no trains. Passenger volumes drop off as the evening goes on, anyway.

You don’t seem to understand. Network Rail blocked all electric traction Paddington - Reading after the 5th tripping and recovering trains that had been stranded or trapped for 30-60 minutes.

The question is whether that block was justified or whether a less severe measure could have been instituted. As it stands, I can't see why they thought that was a reasonable way of handling the situation.

 

[800301]

Did they really have no idea where the problem lay? I would have thought that neutral sections would allow the problem to be narrowed down quite quickly.

Then you isolate that section and run a service over the rest of the line until the problem has been fixed. Am I missing something

If they knew where it was they would have sorted it, but they need to prove where the fault is,

If you didn’t know the 1 neutral section between Paddington and Reading is at Maindehead, (excluding HeX) therefore it takes out everything when there is a trip and that is the reason there was a BTET as there is no point trying to run anything, depending on the location/fault/damage, it might not have been possible to have low speed coasting implemented so we got what we got

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Sep 2025 ==

It needs to be rescued I believe. The actual incident will be resolved before then, but the residual disruption will likely go on beyond that. It’s not just a click of a fingers to go from a contingency plan to booked working when it comes to fleet and crew workings.

They can’t seem to make up their mind, when I passed it just after 12 it had both Pantographs up with fitters onboard, there was a plan to rescue it with an 800 but then there was an “issue with train crew” that prevented that, they kept saying the 57 is coming but I don’t think it ever left Reading. It had an ADD but then couldn’t get either pantograph to raise, they didn’t want to send another 387 as they didn’t want the fault to transfer but I assume it’s all sorted now, poor driver had been there ages and well over their day

 

[GraphitProjekt]

Did they really have no idea where the problem lay? I would have thought that neutral sections would allow the problem to be narrowed down quite quickly.

I would have thought neutral sections keep the problematic sections separated anyway, but perhaps I'm mistaken on that point

Maidenhead to Paddington (technically Westbourne park for xr) is the distance between neutral sections and the normal feediny area of Kensal Green grid connection.

That being said, isn't GWML supposed to have some fancy protection scheme that can automatically locate faults and switch out the nearest substations to the location. I believe it's called Rationalised Autotransformer Scheme (RATS for short, perhaps aptly?)

There are other minor substations at West Ealing, Hayes and Slough but I'm not sure if any of them have circuit breakers for immediate sectioning, or use load break isolators relying on rats.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Sep 2025 ==

(excluding HeX)

I've always wanted to know, what is the OHNS at Hayes actually for? Does the old Hayes feeder station from HEX days still feed hayes to heathrow?

 

[Falcon1200]

I would have thought that neutral sections would allow the problem to be narrowed down quite quickly.

As mentioned elsewhere, neutral sections can be a long way apart. Unless remote switching is installed, staff have to attend on the ground to carry out manual switching to reduce the area affected. Having said that, there is (or at least was when I retired!) a system caused Optimho which allowed the Electrical Control Room to narrow down the location of the cause of a trip, although the fault yesterday may have been of a different nature.

 

[Mattplans]

Why does GWR not make add calls at the XR stations during the sort of disruption yesterday.

 

[Nova1]

Why does GWR not make add calls at the XR stations during the sort of disruption yesterday.

Nowhere near the required capacity can be given

 

[800301]

Why does GWR not make add calls at the XR stations during the sort of disruption yesterday.

An 800 is only permitted to stop at Ealing Broadway, Slough, Maidenhead and Twyford between Reading and Pad, so isn’t much use.

If you can use a 387 then you might as well find a 345, when we do get SSO it causes no end of issues with confused passengers

 

[Purple Train]

If you can use a 387 then you might as well find a 345, when we do get SSO it causes no end of issues with confused passengers

I absolutely appreciate that a different company effectively operating another company's service might be confusing for non-railway fans, and indeed I have had to guide a relative through a very similar situation. (Thank you, privatisation.) However, I'm fairly sure that people stranded at intermediate stations don't much care which colour the train is, only that one turns up. Even if it doesn't stop everywhere, it can still be useful - taking my example of the evening peak at Slough when TfL have given up, even if just a single additional Paddington-Didcot train in each direction was specially stopped at Slough, and even if they made no other special stops, it would certainly shift some passengers and get things moving, even if it would be no use to the good people of West Drayton, Iver, Langley, Burnham, Taplow etc.

 

[Bald Rick]

How is it that during the whole evening they were unable to get staff out to put in place an isolation?

Did they really have no idea where the problem lay? I would have thought that neutral sections would allow the problem to be narrowed down quite quickly.

As others have said, there is effectively only one neutral section, and (currently) no remote switching available. If it goes off it’s all off until you get people out on the ground.

And when you do get people out, to isolate it safely it needs at least two, and probably more switches to be pulled (big mechanical switches), and earths put up every mile or so. That takes time, clearly.

 

[Horizon22]

Did they really have no idea where the problem lay? I would have thought that neutral sections would allow the problem to be narrowed down quite quickly.

Then you isolate that section and run a service over the rest of the line until the problem has been fixed. Am I missing something obvious?

Yes, genuinely. A rough idea was known but that’s still a good length. That does seem hard to believe to me too, and will no doubt not help Network Rail’s reputation in this area. The large sections do not help, as previously mentioned. Not until OLE staff walked the section was the issue identified.

Why was no attempt made to run any sort of replacement bus service between the outer stations? Again, those are the ones where there are fewer alternatives but also fewer passengers.

Did you not read my message? It was requested and no suppliers could provide it. Nobody was “against” anything.

And taxis should absolutely have been authorised. See what SWR do during major disruption - put a message on their website making clear that alternative transport costs will be reimbursed and how to claim for them.

Taxis were indeed provided for various customers.

The question is whether that block was justified or whether a less severe measure could have been instituted. As it stands, I can't see why they thought that was a reasonable way of handling the situation.

The OLE tripped six times over 6 hours, four of those within a 2 hour period. There was simply no confidence that it wouldn’t fail and strand trains outside stations for long periods of time which arguably brings bigger risks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Sep 2025 ==

I absolutely appreciate that a different company effectively operating another company's service might be confusing for non-railway fans, and indeed I have had to guide a relative through a very similar situation. (Thank you, privatisation.) However, I'm fairly sure that people stranded at intermediate stations don't much care which colour the train is, only that one turns up. Even if it doesn't stop everywhere, it can still be useful - taking my example of the evening peak at Slough when TfL have given up, even if just a single additional Paddington-Didcot train in each direction was specially stopped at Slough, and even if they made no other special stops, it would certainly shift some passengers and get things moving, even if it would be no use to the good people of West Drayton, Iver, Langley, Burnham, Taplow etc.

In this case electric traction had been stopped, and as mentioned 800s cannot stop at many of the stations - believe this is due to either camera configuration or staffing requirements.

When the relevant contingency plan is initiated, GWR Didcot Parkway trains also terminate at Reading. These are agreed plans with Network Rail and running extra trains just destroys reliability on the reduced infrastructure. So TfL are not “giving up” as you so succinctly put it - they are essentially told what to run. This may change in the next timetable change.

Yesterday GWR did run shuttles Paddington to Reading or diesel for Slough / Maidenhead / Twyford but how well advertised they were with how much warning I don’t know.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Sep 2025 ==

They can’t seem to make up their mind, when I passed it just after 12 it had both Pantographs up with fitters onboard, there was a plan to rescue it with an 800 but then there was an “issue with train crew” that prevented that, they kept saying the 57 is coming but I don’t think it ever left Reading. It had an ADD but then couldn’t get either pantograph to raise, they didn’t want to send another 387 as they didn’t want the fault to transfer but I assume it’s all sorted now, poor driver had been there ages and well over their day

It did eventually move to Hayes under its own power and was then put into West Ealing sidings.

 

[Watershed]

As others have said, there is effectively only one neutral section, and (currently) no remote switching available. If it goes off it’s all off until you get people out on the ground

A rather "interesting" design decision... Did nobody think through how disruptive any faults would therefore be?

And when you do get people out, to isolate it safely it needs at least two, and probably more switches to be pulled (big mechanical switches), and earths put up every mile or so. That takes time, clearly.

Absolutely but for local services to be completely withdrawn for 5/6 hours doesn't exactly give off a great impression. Surely it would have been possible to get a basic service running in that time?

 

[Bald Rick]

A rather "interesting" design decision... Did nobody think through how disruptive any faults would therefore be?

When it was designed, there were only 4 electric services each eay an hour.

(Be assurred that the issue is being corrected, but eill be quite disruptive to implement).

 

[Watershed]

When it was designed, there were only 4 electric services each eay an hour.

(Be assurred that the issue is being corrected, but eill be quite disruptive to implement).

Between Paddington and Heathrow yes, but surely it would have made sense to introduce at least one neutral section where the extension to Reading & beyond joined the existing writing?

 

[Purple Train]

In this case electric traction had been stopped, and as mentioned 800s cannot stop at many of the stations - believe this is due to either camera configuration or staffing requirements.

When the relevant contingency plan is initiated, GWR Didcot Parkway trains also terminate at Reading. These are agreed plans with Network Rail and running extra trains just destroys reliability on the reduced infrastructure. So TfL are not “giving up” as you so succinctly put it - they are essentially told what to run. This may change in the next timetable change.

Sorry, I confess I've drifted off-topic a bit and was talking in general, with a nod to a situation I remember from a short while back that bears some similarities to the disruption caused by the broken-down train today. I apologise.

To get a little back on topic, when this contingency plan is initiated, in which the only local services between Reading and Paddington are two Abbey Wood-Readings an hour, why do TfL still tend to run them fast to make up time, when they run at all? I can understand them doing so if a full service is being funnelled through a disrupted area, but reducing some stations to a train every two hours or so isn't great, unless of course it's completely outwith their control.

Again, sorry for drifting off-topic, and I really appreciate how patiently you're explaining these ins and outs - I feel very informed!

 

[hassaanhc]

The OLE tripped six times over 6 hours, four of those within a 2 hour period. There was simply no confidence that it wouldn’t fail and strand trains outside stations for long periods of time which arguably brings bigger risks.

Three of those were within 20 minutes from 1655 to 1715. The third one caused 9H70 (1624 Abbey Wood to Heathrow Airport Terminal 4) to be stuck between West Ealing and Hanwell for about 25 minutes, while movement on the Down Relief only was stopped for longer to allow that line to be investigated in more detail (according to the driver of the train behind, which I was on).

 

[800301]

Between Paddington and Heathrow yes, but surely it would have made sense to introduce at least one neutral section where the extension to Reading & beyond joined the existing writing?

Do you fully understand what the purpose of a neutral section is?

They aren’t placed for fun

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

When it was designed, there were only 4 electric services each eay an hour.

(Be assurred that the issue is being corrected, but eill be quite disruptive to implement).

It’s seem utterly remarkable that the ole wasn’t improved for the Elizabeth line to build in resilience on such a prime route? Is this being corrected under Operation Brunel or Old Oak Common Stn project?

 

[Horizon22]

It’s seem utterly remarkable that the ole wasn’t improved for the Elizabeth line to build in resilience on such a prime route? Is this being corrected under Operation Brunel or Old Oak Common Stn project?

Definitely not the former which is mainly just track / Pway work (although the name has since changed) and don’t think so under the latter. As @Bald Rick alludes, it’s quite invasive work I believe.

 

[Judith hambly]

About time Liz line ran shuttles in disruption time. Ie reading too eailing etc

 

[800301]

About time Liz line ran shuttles in disruption time. Ie reading too eailing etc

How do you expect them to run electric trains when there is a block to electric traction?

 

[GraphitProjekt]

A rather "interesting" design decision... Did nobody think through how disruptive any faults would therefore be?

I heard that remote switching was descoped from GWEP for (obviously) cost overrun reasons.

Between Paddington and Heathrow yes, but surely it would have made sense to introduce at least one neutral section where the extension to Reading & beyond joined the existing writing?

You know how much moaning goes on about gold plating.

 

[Judith hambly]

Exactly . There should be scope to run Liz line trains old oak to reading if problem is at Paddington etc

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Sep 2025 ==

More motions tonight. 2p65 sat Ealing on up fast. 1a92 went slow at Hanwell then sat at oc for a while then started diesel engines up. Guard claiming ohl again. 3 days in a row is taking the pi___s

 

[Jamiescott1]

3 days in a row is taking the pi___s

Its quite often 3 days in a row for those of us who travel daily

 

[Purple Train]

Its quite often 3 days in a row for those of us who travel daily

I'd second that, and I'm sure there is an explanation for it. It seems to generally be two or three months of nothing, then a week of total chaos, then a few months of nothing, and repeat. Or maybe I only remember the ones where it was three days in a row...

 

[Bald Rick]

It’s seem utterly remarkable that the ole wasn’t improved for the Elizabeth line to build in resilience on such a prime route? Is this being corrected under Operation Brunel or Old Oak Common Stn project?

Definitely not the former which is mainly just track / Pway work (although the name has since changed) and don’t think so under the latter. As @Bald Rick alludes, it’s quite invasive work I believe.

It’s not in Brunel, but is still a hangover from Crossrail. It’s horribly disruptive to install, but then I guess so is any OLE problem east of Maidenhead.

The Old Oak project does get rid of most of the remaining headspans, which will help in its own way.

 

[Horizon22]

Exactly . There should be scope to run Liz line trains old oak to reading if problem is at Paddington etc

Eh? Old Oak isn't a station. The issue was between Paddington - Hayes and Harlington (eventually Maidenhead) inclusive.