Bee Network Service/Route Discussion

[Bovverboy]

Announced internally today that from the second week in September the 52 will slightly change route omitting the infamous canal bridge on Barton lane. Buses will still serve Trafford road but then use Cawdor street then go into and out of the Trafford centre like a 100.
Potentially it means double deckers could be used, however I doubt they will as IF the driver forgets to use Cawdor Street it’s another potential accident.

It's tempting to say that the planned change will only bring the same safety benefit that putting the 52 and 100 on to different rotas would have done, but I don't want to cast aspersions, it's definitely a step in the right direction.
I estimate that the diversion via Patricroft Bridge will add 2-3 minutes running time in each direction at quiet times. I haven't tried peak (yet).
I see that the Adelaide Street stop has been marked 'temporary'. Assuming it hasn't been so marked up to now the implication is that when the 52 is diverted the stop will be replaced by the one near the bottom of Cawdor Street (currently marked School Buses Only). The stop on the opposite side of Cawdor Street (outside the shops) is already marked '52', even though the 52 doesn't currently go that way. The stop it will replace, on the curve, doesn't need to be marked 'temporary', since after the change it simply won't be there. Shame to waste a good bus shelter, though.
I think a pair of stops would be justified at the top of Cawdor Street, but I'm not sure they're going to appear.
I wouldn't be surprised if, after the next Bee Network shake-up, the 52 transfers to Diamond and the route reverts to as it is now.

 

[Tim33160]

52 - Bus Service Changes
Duration
Sun 31 Aug, 12:00am - Sat 06 Sep, 11:59pm
Operators impacted
Bee Network
Services impacted
52
Stops impacted
All
Run by Bee Network. We’re changing the route to run via Cawdor Street, Liverpool Road and Barton Road in Patricroft. This follows a recent collision between a bus and the bridge on Barton Lane to ensure the service continues to operate safely. This change is in place until further notice.
https://assets.ctfassets.net/nv7y93...8d4822b630220850b0092fe541d/52_25-SC-0272.pdf

 

[Bovverboy]

A cursory glance at the 'updated' timetable (uploaded by Tim33160, above, and effective from tomorrow, Sunday 31/8/25) says there hasn't been any increases in running times.

 

[PaulWC]

My wife travelled from Warrington to the Trafford Centre on the 8.52 100 this morning, and ended up on quite a journey. The driver took the wrong route out of Warrington Interchange taking the old route through the town centre, and even managed to miss out Irlam and Cadishead first time, travelling via the A57 before turning round to go back down the A57 to turn off back through Irlam. Only 25 minutes late at the Trafford Centre, and I guess it could've been worse.

Vehicles – 100 – bustimes.org

bustimes.org

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The driver took the wrong route out of Warrington Interchange taking the old route through the town centre,

What's the new route? It looks like the bus takes the shortest route between all the stops in the city centre.

 

[PaulWC]

What's the new route? It looks like the bus takes the shortest route between all the stops in the city centre.
View attachment 187491

Apologies, I though they still turned right out of the bus station round into Scotland Road and then down Buttermarket Street. I didn't realise they were going back down Legh Street and Bridge Street. They definitely don't miss out Irlam and Cadishead though!!!

 

[M60lad]

I think it depends on driver what route 100 takes out of Warrington Bus Station, some will take the short route and others will take the longer route via Legh Street and Bridge Street.

 

[PaulWC]

I think it depends on driver what route 100 takes out of Warrington Bus Station, some will take the short route and others will take the longer route via Legh Street and Bridge Street.

Having looked this up, the proper route is via Bridge Street and left onto Academy Way and left up Academy Street to Buttermarket Street. The problem was this driver took a right turn into Academy Street and then onto Mersey Street.

 

[M60lad]

Looks like Diamond might be short of drivers for the timetable change today as 280 is currently running a Sunday service and only running as far as just before Dunham Massey instead of running the full service to/from Lymm.

 

[davyp]

According to another forum, the problem is shortage of low height buses rather than drivers.

 

[Tim33160]

Looks like Diamond might be short of drivers for the timetable change today as 280 is currently running a Sunday service and only running as far as just before Dunham Massey instead of running the full service to/from Lymm.

Mon: Diamond Mercedes-Benz Sprinter City 45 21253 BF67 WGW has entered service on Altrincham locals 280/287.
(this bus was Arriva Beds and Bucks 1020 last Friday: 1020 - BF67WGW – Arriva Beds and Bucks – bustimes.org )

Not off to a good start for its extended route via Warburton – Lymm;

Due to operational issues, the 280 bus service will operate a Su service on Tues 1 Sept.
Services will terminate before Dunham Massey on Woodhouse Lane and operate back to Altrincham.

The other bus in the circuit is 20623 - YY73 OYL an ADL Enviro200MMC

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I've just discovere when going to keep working on my map that the Regional Network Maps have been updated, much more yellow (obviously)
It has some disadvantages compared to the previous one (terminus boxes no longer have directions in the few cases where that's relevant, or info about routes that are less served/express) and it will take some getting used to.

I've been using these maps for years, it's weird for it not to be the same.

Public Transport Network Maps in Greater Manchester

Public network maps for each district in Greater Manchester

tfgm.com

Public Transport Network Maps in Greater Manchester​

Updated September 2025

 

[WibbleWobble]

I've just discovere when going to keep working on my map that the Regional Network Maps have been updated, much more yellow (obviously)
It has some disadvantages compared to the previous one (terminus boxes no longer have directions in the few cases where that's relevant, or info about routes that are less served/express) and it will take some getting used to.

I've been using these maps for years, it's weird for it not to be the same.

Public Transport Network Maps in Greater Manchester

Public network maps for each district in Greater Manchester

tfgm.com

Even though TfGM insist on everything being on brand, the hexagons make it look more cluttered. Each design incarnation just gets progressively worse. They should just go back to the original design of area maps (although the traditional county-wide style would go someway to be on brand as the roads were yellow!).

 

[Bovverboy]

52 - Bus Service Changes
Duration
Sun 31 Aug, 12:00am - Sat 06 Sep, 11:59pm
Operators impacted
Bee Network
Services impacted
52
Stops impacted
All
Run by Bee Network. We’re changing the route to run via Cawdor Street, Liverpool Road and Barton Road in Patricroft. This follows a recent collision between a bus and the bridge on Barton Lane to ensure the service continues to operate safely. This change is in place until further notice.
https://assets.ctfassets.net/nv7y93...8d4822b630220850b0092fe541d/52_25-SC-0272.pdf

It's been reported elsewhere that the change date was today, Monday 1 September, but it actually took place as scheduled, yesterday, Sunday 31 August. Buses have been taking up to six minutes to travel from Adelaide Street (on Trafford Road) to Barton Bridge (scheduled time, 1 minute). Yesterday they were taking slightly longer, but I presume that was a consequence of the usual tailback from the Trafford Centre.

 

[Tim33160]

Mon: Diamond Mercedes-Benz Sprinter City 45 21253 BF67 WGW has entered service on Altrincham locals 280/287.
(this bus was Arriva Beds and Bucks 1020 last Friday: 1020 - BF67WGW – Arriva Beds and Bucks – bustimes.org )

Not off to a good start for its extended route via Warburton – Lymm;

Due to operational issues, the 280 bus service will operate a Su service on Tues 1 Sept.
Services will terminate before Dunham Massey on Woodhouse Lane and operate back to Altrincham.

The other bus in the circuit is 20623 - YY73 OYL an ADL Enviro200MMC

Somehow, the bus that was used yesterday - but too high to fit under the canal bridge
was used again today and was able to pass under the bridge!!!

https://bustimes.org/vehicles/bndb-bf67wgw?date=2025-09-02

Apparently it is on loan from Mellor whilst one of the two Fiat Ducatos has gone back to Mellors

The canal bridge at Dunham had a triangular warning sign of 9' 0" but for years, single deck buses have fitted under the bridge
Then Trafford BC added a circular prohibition sign of 9' 0" which meant that oversize buses were prohibited.
This then took 18 months for a replacement service to be provides using one solo initially by Belle Vue coaches the staff shortages saw the bus and the route pass to Diamond bus before last Christmas - then continues as Bee Network from 5th January 2025

 

[Bovverboy]

Do the two Fiats 'officially' fit under the bridge? Was 21242 VOR yesterday? What is the height of the Merc?
A vehicle parc of two would strike me as totally inappropriate for a PVR of two anyway, I would see four as an absolute minimum. (That wouldn't equate to 100% spare cover, since any vehicles not needed for the 280 could be used on other routes.)

 

[Tim33160]

Do the two Fiats 'officially' fit under the bridge? Was 21242 VOR yesterday? What is the height of the Merc?
A vehicle parc of two would strike me as totally inappropriate for a PVR of two anyway, I would see four as an absolute minimum. (That wouldn't equate to 100% spare cover, since any vehicles not needed for the 280 could be used on other routes.)

According to bustimes
21242 was running yesterday https://bustimes.org/vehicles/bndb-sh74uap?date=2025-09-02

21241

last ran on now withdrawn route 279 on 16 Aug

 

[Bovverboy]

According to bustimes
21242 was running yesterday https://bustimes.org/vehicles/bndb-sh74uap?date=2025-09-02

21241

last ran on now withdrawn route 279 on 16 Aug

I'm afraid that, because my message was posted at 19:33 on Tuesday 2 Sep, 'yesterday' was Monday 1 Sep.

 

[M60lad]

Just noticed on social media that a petition has been put up asking for the restoration of the 167 Manchester-Norden bus route and it raises a few questions:

1> If the petition is successful when would the service start operating could it be this year or we looking at next year sometime?

2> Who/Which Depot would operate the service (I'm guessing Go Northwest with it being in their area)?

3> Does it still have to be registered with the Traffic Commissioner?

4> How long between registration and operation did it take for the recent new 163A route to start operating?


I see these petitions asking for new services and I just don't think people know what goes into registering a Bus Service (I didn't until a number of years ago) and think by getting a petition together a bus service will start but I'm sure it takes quite a number of months if I'm right.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

Just noticed on social media that a petition has been put up asking for the restoration of the 167 Manchester-Norden bus route and it raises a few questions:

1> If the petition is successful when would the service start operating could it be this year or we looking at next year sometime?

2> Who/Which Depot would operate the service (I'm guessing Go Northwest with it being in their area)?

3> Does it still have to be registered with the Traffic Commissioner?

4> How long between registration and operation did it take for the recent new 163A route to start operating?


I see these petitions asking for new services and I just don't think people know what goes into registering a Bus Service (I didn't until a number of years ago) and think by getting a petition together a bus service will start but I'm sure it takes quite a number of months if I'm right.

If it is wholly within Greater Manchester then it is dealt with by TfGM and doesn't involve the Traffic Commissioner and TfGM appear to be much more relaxed about their registration timescales for changes involving themselves, they probably do still work to something but I suspect they can change things at much less than the normal TC 70-day timescale used in the rest of the country if they choose (I think officially it is actually 98 days but that often seems observed more in the exception than the rule).

The big time hurdle will be sourcing sufficient buses and drivers in the right place, probably more so drivers than buses at the moment as they appear to have some spares knocking around as they sort out the fleet so for an entirely new service 2 or 3 months probably remains a minimum reasonable timescale for a routine change (emergencies can be done quickly but there are all sorts of issues when doing that too often).

 

[Statto]

The Norden - Manchester route is wholly in the GM area, the 167 went a different way to the 163 via Rhodes Crumpsall & Cheetham Hill rather than via Middleton, the old 167 was quite odd it operated 7 days a week hourly Monday to Saturday, every 90 minutes on Suindays, but even on Sundays had no Evening service.

 

[M60lad]

From what I remember of 167 the Monday-Saturday daytime service was always operated by Queens Road with Sunday journeys being operated by Rossendale Transport and I think they had the Sunday Service for a number of years, similar to how Maynes seemed to always have the Sunday 237 Manchester-Glossop service.

 

[lincman]

The Norden - Manchester route is wholly in the GM area, the 167 went a different way to the 163 via Rhodes Crumpsall & Cheetham Hill rather than via Middleton, the old 167 was quite odd it operated 7 days a week hourly Monday to Saturday, every 90 minutes on Suindays, but even on Sundays had no Evening service.

The 167 traces it's history all the way back to Manchester Corporation as the 4 which ran to Bamford and turned around at Bagslate Moor Road. It was renumber I believe by SELNEC and extended to to the bus turnaround at the Bridge Inn Norden

 

[Bovverboy]

52 - Bus Service Changes
Duration
Sun 31 Aug, 12:00am - Sat 06 Sep, 11:59pm
Operators impacted
Bee Network
Services impacted
52
Stops impacted
All
Run by Bee Network. We’re changing the route to run via Cawdor Street, Liverpool Road and Barton Road in Patricroft. This follows a recent collision between a bus and the bridge on Barton Lane to ensure the service continues to operate safely. This change is in place until further notice.
https://assets.ctfassets.net/nv7y93...8d4822b630220850b0092fe541d/52_25-SC-0272.pdf

The 52 has always operated safely! It's the 100, particularly, which is in danger.

The 'duration' dates quoted are misleading, the change is 31 Aug until further notice, as is made clear later.

 

[py_megapixel]

The 52 has always operated safely! It's the 100, particularly, which is in danger.

The 'duration' dates quoted are misleading, the change is 31 Aug until further notice, as is made clear later.

Yes, that's a design flaw with TfGM's website.... it's the time period for which the message appears on the website, not when the changes take place! It's a bit silly, they really should sort that one out

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

The 167 traces it's history all the way back to Manchester Corporation as the 4 which ran to Bamford and turned around at Bagslate Moor Road. It was renumber I believe by SELNEC and extended to to the bus turnaround at the Bridge Inn Norden

"Legend" had it that the Norden extension was for the benefit of PTE managers living there. In due course a peak only limited stop version (165) was also introduced.

 

[Tim33160]

Bee Network services from Stagecoach,First and Metroline depots are on strike Friday 19th - Monday 22nd September,
Full details at https://tfgm.com/bus-industrial-action with full lists of routes not operating
Ticket acceptance on local trains and Metrolink

Stagecoach Queens Rd depot is working, as are Go North West and Diamond Bus depots.
Some school buses actually showed running on Bustimes tracker:
First
69623 BV24 LSZ 968 07:26
69624 BV24 LTA 862 07:40
69629 BV24 LTN 828 07:35
69630 BV24 LTO 709 07:42
69631 BV24 LTT 880 07:28
69632 BV24 LTU 967 07:20
69633 BV24 LTX 894 07:08
69637 BV24 LUB 800 07:52
69638 BV24 LUD 865 07:51
58014 WR24 BBE 895 07:18

Stagecoach
10401 SL64 HZG 927 08:01 Little Hulton
10408 SL64 HZR 956 07:53 Little Hulton
10414 SL64 HZX 944 07:19 Hyde Road
10415 SL64 HZY 962 07:25 Little Hulton
10420 SL64 JBO 665 07:25 Little Hulton
11256 SN69 ZFR 879 07:30 Oldham Bus Depot (Walshaw St)
11810 SK24 CKD 822 07:23 Oldham Bus Depot (Walshaw St)
11816 SK24 CKN 887 07:23 Oldham Bus Depot (Walshaw St)
13173 BN61 MWX 836 07:26 Oldham Bus Depot (Walshaw St)
21424 BV24 LSF 711 07:28 Queens Road
37152 YX64 VMU 943 07:33 Little Hulton
37156 YX64 VMZ 890 07:22 Hyde Road
37162 YX64 VNF 937 07:39 Little Hulton
37165 YX64 VNJ 660 06:55 Little Hulton

Free buses – all electric buses not tracking due to garaged at Oldham – only one diesel decker tracking at 0940: 10851 SN17 MJU

 

[Class 466]

Bee Network services from Stagecoach,First and Metroline depots are on strike Friday 19th - Monday 22nd September,
Full details at https://tfgm.com/bus-industrial-action with full lists of routes not operating
Ticket acceptance on local trains and Metrolink

Stagecoach Queens Rd depot is working, as are Go North West and Diamond Bus depots.
Some school buses actually showed running on Bustimes tracker:
First

69623 BV24 LSZ 968 07:26

69624 BV24 LTA 862 07:40

69629 BV24 LTN 828 07:35

69630 BV24 LTO 709 07:42

69631 BV24 LTT 880 07:28

69632 BV24 LTU 967 07:20

69633 BV24 LTX 894 07:08

69637 BV24 LUB 800 07:52

69638 BV24 LUD 865 07:51
58014 WR24 BBE 895 07:18

Stagecoach

10401 SL64 HZG 927 08:01 Little Hulton

10408 SL64 HZR 956 07:53 Little Hulton

10414 SL64 HZX 944 07:19 Hyde Road

10415 SL64 HZY 962 07:25 Little Hulton

10420 SL64 JBO 665 07:25 Little Hulton

11256 SN69 ZFR 879 07:30 Oldham Bus Depot (Walshaw St)

11810 SK24 CKD 822 07:23 Oldham Bus Depot (Walshaw St)

11816 SK24 CKN 887 07:23 Oldham Bus Depot (Walshaw St)

13173 BN61 MWX 836 07:26 Oldham Bus Depot (Walshaw St)

21424 BV24 LSF 711 07:28 Queens Road

37152 YX64 VMU 943 07:33 Little Hulton

37156 YX64 VMZ 890 07:22 Hyde Road

37162 YX64 VNF 937 07:39 Little Hulton

37165 YX64 VNJ 660 06:55 Little Hulton

Free buses – all electric buses not tracking due to garaged at Oldham – only one diesel decker tracking at 0940: 10851 SN17 MJU

I've noticed theres a number of Queens Road based vehicles not tracking, The 135 is about 5 vehicles down - I'm assuming this is a tracking issue rather than lack of drivers

 

[mangad]

Bee Network services from Stagecoach,First and Metroline depots are on strike Friday 19th - Monday 22nd September,
Full details at https://tfgm.com/bus-industrial-action with full lists of routes not operating
Ticket acceptance on local trains and Metrolink

Stagecoach Queens Rd depot is working, as are Go North West and Diamond Bus depots.
Some school buses actually showed running on Bustimes tracker:
First

69623 BV24 LSZ 968 07:26

69624 BV24 LTA 862 07:40

69629 BV24 LTN 828 07:35

69630 BV24 LTO 709 07:42

69631 BV24 LTT 880 07:28

69632 BV24 LTU 967 07:20

69633 BV24 LTX 894 07:08

69637 BV24 LUB 800 07:52

69638 BV24 LUD 865 07:51
58014 WR24 BBE 895 07:18

There's presumably some contract difference between the First schools and the general drivers as the TfGM page did state those services would be running.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There's presumably some contract difference between the First schools and the general drivers as the TfGM page did state those services would be running.

Possibly undertaken by managers and supervisory staff