Impossible to buy advertised fare?

[talldave]

The lengths some people will go to defend the rail industry on here are astounding. The fare is advertised as "based on the contactless fare". To the public - the people at whom the NRE site is targeted - that means paying using a contactless card or Google/Apple pay. If the rail industry wants to include Oyster within its internal definition of contactless that's fine, but it shouldn't be extended to public-facing communications, those should use words as they are commonly understood. The screenshot above is clearly misleading as it suggests contactless cards can be used in conjunction with a railcard, which they can't. It should explicitly state that the fare can be achieved using an Oyster (or other smartcard) with a railcard loaded onto it.

The rail industry is going to great lengths to roll out contactless and publish maps showing coverage which make it clear that Oyster coverage is different. So for fares, contactless is definitely not Oyster.

 

[Haywain]

Those who are defending this clearly misleading fare advertisement as not being misleading

Can you point out which posts and posters you are referring to? I don't see that anybody has said that it is a perfect example of clarity.

No. I'm saying they shouldn't, as they so often do, defend the indefensible. What did I say that made you think I was saying what you suggested given that I provided my reasoning for why, on this occasion, I believe they are wrong?

Again, who is doing that?

 

[Shrop]

Definitely not true - I have an Oyster with a Senior Railcard discount and live well outside London.

Thanks, I will try that, I'm just not quite sure how, since I cannot register my Oyster card on line without having used it in the last 8 weeks, and it's not practical to use from over 150 miles away.
When we're next in London we'll have very limited time as we'll be rushing to catch another flight, so I'd much rather get it done in advance.
Do you know how I could get my senior discount added under these conditions?

 

[Watershed]

Thanks, I will try that, I'm just not quite sure how, since I cannot register my Oyster card on line without having used it in the last 8 weeks, and it's not practical to use from over 150 miles away.
When we're next in London we'll have very limited time as we'll be rushing to catch another flight, so I'd much rather get it done in advance.
Do you know how I could get my senior discount added under these conditions?

You can get it added when you reach the relevant London Terminus (e.g. Euston) at the Underground station. You speak to a member of station staff and they help you register the card and then add the discount for you.

 

[Buzby]

Definitely not true - I have an Oyster with a Senior Railcard discount and live well outside London.

Agreed - I had to travel in to Kings Cross to have my Railcard added andI’m definitely not London-based! The biggest issue is finding the staff member who can verify your Railcard -it took me neatly 30minutes, so that makes a 3-year card a worthy purchase.

 

[Shrop]

You can get it added when you reach the relevant London Terminus (e.g. Euston) at the Underground station. You speak to a member of station staff and they help you register the card and then add the discount for you.

So in these days of so many things being increasingly difficult face to face, and encouraged on line, can I actually not do this on line in advance?

 

[Watershed]

So in these days of so many things being increasingly difficult face to face, and encouraged on line, can I actually not do this on line in advance?

The discount itself cannot be applied online, no.

Registration can be done online but that requires you to have made a journey within the last 8 weeks.

It is a very old and backwards system but TfL have been reluctant to spend any money bringing Railcards onto the contactless system, so for the time being I can't see it changing.

 

[CyrusWuff]

A hot issues bulletin went out about this recently, clarifying that registering online and at the machine are two separate things, and that adding a discount does not require online registration before it can be done.

Must have been very recent as I had a robust discussion with a member of staff at an Elizabeth Line station on the subject when trying to get a Priv discount added.

Given the requirement to add any discount to an Oyster is that the "Registered" flag on the card itself is set, just registering it online is pointless.

Shockingly, registering it online failed to set the flag in question.

I then visited a London Underground station and educated a member of staff there that it's possible to register a card without adding a discount at the same time, something they didn't know was possible.

Having done so, I visited another EL station and successfully had the discount added.

 

[Shrop]

The discount itself cannot be applied online, no.

Registration can be done online but that requires you to have made a journey within the last 8 weeks.

It is a very old and backwards system but TfL have been reluctant to spend any money bringing Railcards onto the contactless system, so for the time being I can't see it changing.

Absolutely right. If TfL are forcing customers to use mostly outdated methods and failing to embrace what most other companies are doing, it really doesn't show them in a good light.
But surely it isn't just a question of money? Why would it be particularly expensive to allow customers to register their railcards on line? And what is it that dictates the need to only recognise Oyster cards that have been used in the last 8 weeks? Isn't this just a piece of fairly straightforward programming for a suitably experienced person?

 

[MarlowDonkey]

But surely it isn't just a question of money? Why would it be particularly expensive to allow customers to register their railcards on line? And what is it that dictates the need to only recognise Oyster cards that have been used in the last 8 weeks? Isn't this just a piece of fairly straightforward programming for a suitably experienced person?

Those making infrequent trips to London can often find it easier to buy a paper Travelcard and get their railcard discount that way. If TfL wnat to get rid of Travelcards, they have to solve the problem of adding railcard discounts to bank and credit cards first.

 

[Haywain]

If TfL wnat to get rid of Travelcards, they have to solve the problem of adding railcard discounts to bank and credit cards first.

That is very much wishful thinking. I doubt that TfL see it as any sort of priority.

 

[talldave]

Those making infrequent trips to London can often find it easier to buy a paper Travelcard and get their railcard discount that way. If TfL wnat to get rid of Travelcards, they have to solve the problem of adding railcard discounts to bank and credit cards first.

I think you'll find that TfL don't care!

 

[MikeWh]

Absolutely right. If TfL are forcing customers to use mostly outdated methods and failing to embrace what most other companies are doing, it really doesn't show them in a good light.
But surely it isn't just a question of money? Why would it be particularly expensive to allow customers to register their railcards on line? And what is it that dictates the need to only recognise Oyster cards that have been used in the last 8 weeks? Isn't this just a piece of fairly straightforward programming for a suitably experienced person?

The problem is that Oyster was cutting edge when first implimented, but is now quite old. The discount entitlement is stored on the physical card and to get that the card has to be presented at a reader. The other issue with allowing it to be done online is verifying that you actually have the card. Unless TfL and RDG enable cross verification between their systems that will be difficult, and doesn't help with station issued railcards either.

The 8-weeks is down to the agreed length of time that journey history is maintained linked to the actual card. I don't know who it is agreed with (ICO maybe) but it will be considered as the appropriate length of time for such information to be held. The online registration process requires that you can give details about a journey made in the last 8 weeks to prove that the card is yours. As with a lot of security features these days, it is frustrating but necesary.

 

[MrJeeves]

The problem is that Oyster was cutting edge when first implimented, but is now quite old. The discount entitlement is stored on the physical card and to get that the card has to be presented at a reader.

Ever since I heard about TfL remotely removing discounts from some oyster cards, I have doubted that adding Railcards online is physically impossible to implement.

Unless TfL and RDG enable cross verification between their systems that will be difficult, and doesn't help with station issued railcards either.

RDG have had a Railcard validation API available for over a year. This, as I understand it, includes paper Railcard purchases (after they are recorded as sold by the ticket office).

 

[MikeWh]

Ever since I heard about TfL remotely removing discounts from some oyster cards, I have doubted that adding Railcards online is physically impossible to implement.

It's not, although it won't happen until the next touch. The bigger issue is ...

RDG have had a Railcard validation API available for over a year. This, as I understand it, includes paper Railcard purchases (after they are recorded as sold by the ticket office).

Interesting. It would still require software development of course, so perhaps lobby the DfT to make it happen.

 

[TUC]

The bigger issue for railcard users is the £10 charge for an Oyster card. If you're only an occasional visitor to London, and are there for just one or two days, the £10 charge can wipe out any benefit of the railcard.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

I don't see a reason for not supporting Railcards on contactless beyond that it's not their product and they have little interest in it, so there is no motivation to do the development work required. With the SWR PAYG scheme the Railcard image (if electronic) is uploaded to their website and checked, from then on it is associated with the card until expiry. There's no need for it to be stored locally on the (ITSO) card so essentially it is in the same position as a bank card. The Railcard status can be checked on-line if necessary, I don't know if this is routinely done on SWR. Maybe the inspectors' devices look it up, it seems unnecessary once the Railcard has been verified.

 

[Haywain]

With the SWR PAYG scheme the Railcard image (if electronic) is uploaded to their website and checked, from then on it is associated with the card until expiry.

This is the same as GTR’s KeyGo.

There's no need for it to be stored locally on the (ITSO) card so essentially it is in the same position as a bank card. The Railcard status can be checked on-line if necessary, I don't know if this is routinely done on SWR. Maybe the inspectors' devices look it up, it seems unnecessary once the Railcard has been verified.

i have been asked to produce my railcard when my KeyGo card has been checked on train, so the information is out there somewhere.

 

[RJ]

The East Croydon Tramlink shop and the nearby McColls are Oyster Ticket Stops which means they are able to load the discount to Oyster cards. These are a 2-3 minute walk from East Croydon station.

National Railcard discounts

National Railcard discounts on Tube, DLR, London Overground, Elizabeth line and National Rail services

tfl.gov.uk

 

[Watershed]

The East Croydon Tramlink shop and the nearby McColls are Oyster Ticket Stops which means they are able to load the discount to Oyster cards. These are a 2-3 minute walk from East Croydon station.

In theory. In practice I doubt that the staff at those shops would have much experience adding Oyster discounts...