Sharp practices outside the UK

[brooklynbound]

I was suprised this summer when using the RATP journey planner, which also shows the cost of journeys, that because Paris Metro Line 1 was closed west of Charles de Gaulle Etoile, using the special replacement bus would involve an extra fare. Obviously it didn't for pass holders but metro plus replacement bus single fare was Eur 4.50 instead of 2.50 for the usual ride.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was suprised this summer when using the RATP journey planner, which also shows the cost of journeys, that because Paris Metro Line 1 was closed west of Charles de Gaulle Etoile, using the special replacement bus would involve an extra fare. Obviously it didn't for pass holders but metro plus replacement bus single fare was Eur 4.50 instead of 2.50 for the usual ride.

It's odd how many fully regulated systems aren't integrated fare-wise, it isn't just the UK (TfL and Bee Network for now). It only seems to be the Germanic countries that really do it properly, by charging per journey regardless of how many and what modes* it includes.

* Some German systems do have "first class" Schnellbusse - express buses - layered on top, though. But these result in a fare uplift, not dis-integration.

 

[sprunt]

Compostage is common in Germany. Berlin is the same.

It is but it's reasonable for people arriving at an airport not to know that. I'd suggest that airport stations should have prominent signage in multiple languages making people aware of the requirement, including telling the purchaser about the requirement on the screen of the ticket machine when purchasing the ticket.

Of course, this may already be the case in Dresden airport and OP simply didn't notice but I think that this signage would definitively rule it out as being a sharp practice.

 

[eoff]

Sharp practice or not (and most of what I have read in this thread is not sharp practice, simple applying the rules...) the user is (surely?) duty bound to find out what rules apply - although I realise this is MUCH more difficult in the 'smart device 21st century' with fewer staff to ask.

Mmm, based on my Nice experience, who was there to ask about the rules...

Were there any visible transport staff at the Tram stop in the airport? NO
Were there any transport staff at the first Interchange stop (Grand Arenas)? NO
Were there any staff at the closest train station to the airport (Nice St Augustin)? NO
Was it obvious what to do when a blue ticket validator shows no light, no beep and has a nearly impossible to read screen with text in French? NO

 

[Tetchytyke]

It is but it's reasonable for people arriving at an airport not to know that.

It's a tough one. I don't disagree with you, but from memory it is clearly signposted in Berlin; it even says on the ticket you need to validate it. I can't comment about Dresden as I've never been there.

It's one of the joys of European travel, every city seems to do it slightly differently. It's not even consistent throughout Germany. You have to stamp in Berlin yet you don't in Hamburg.

 

[Gaelan]

It's odd how many fully regulated systems aren't integrated fare-wise, it isn't just the UK (TfL and Bee Network for now). It only seems to be the Germanic countries that really do it properly, by charging per journey regardless of how many and what modes* it includes.

* Some German systems do have "first class" Schnellbusse - express buses - layered on top, though. But these result in a fare uplift, not dis-integration.

The Orca smartcard in greater Seattle does a surprisingly good job here. There’s a Hopper-like mechanism across all operators and modes: after one journey, any subsequent journeys in a 2-hour window cost only any difference in fare. (So a $2 Pierce Transit bus followed by a $3 King County Metro bus costs you a total of $3.)

The only exception is ferries; Washington State Ferries never participated in the transfer scheme, while Kitsap Fast Ferries recently announced their withdrawal (citing cost pressures). I have other problems with Orca, in particular the lack of any sort of cap, but it’s one of the most passenger-friendly approaches to intermodal connections I’ve seen.

 

[AY1975]

Am just back from Nice. Despite having a Pass Sud Azur 7-day pass that had been activated by travel I was open to a fine if I did not 'activate' it on each and every journey.

Likewise, some French tram/light rail networks such as Bordeaux have (or had) all-day tickets that have to be inserted into the on-board ticket validator at the start of every journey even though they are valid for unlimited travel. In practice, it can be difficult to physically get at the validator on a very crowded tram or bus, though.

From what I've heard SBB inspectors are extremely strict on Interrail travel logs being filled out/checked in immediately on boarding, whereas in other countries they will often turn a blind eye.
Perhaps they get a commision? Chinging a group of oblivious Interrailers for 90CHF(?) each would be quite a good money earner.

Not just Interrail travel logs, but I believe that inspectors in Switzerland (any maybe some other countries) will also often fine passengers who present an e-ticket or m-ticket that they bought (or activated in the case of m-tickets) after the train departed from the station where they boarded, or even if they saw the passenger buying or activating it after boarding the train even if it was before the train departed.

It's one of the joys of European travel, every city seems to do it slightly differently. It's not even consistent throughout Germany. You have to stamp in Berlin yet you don't in Hamburg.

Yes, and on some bus and tram/light rail networks the ticket validators are at the stops, meaning that you have to stamp before boarding, and in some places the validators are on board the bus or tram/light rail vehicle.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not just Interrail travel logs, but I believe that inspectors in Switzerland (any maybe some other countries) will also often fine passengers who present an e-ticket or m-ticket that they bought (or activated in the case of m-tickets) after the train departed from the station where they boarded, or even if they saw the passenger buying or activating it after boarding the train even if it was before the train departed.

This is UK policy though enforcement is a bit variable.

 

[bahnause]

Not just Interrail travel logs, but I believe that inspectors in Switzerland (any maybe some other countries) will also often fine passengers who present an e-ticket or m-ticket that they bought (or activated in the case of m-tickets) after the train departed from the station where they boarded, or even if they saw the passenger buying or activating it after boarding the train even if it was before the train departed.

Tickets can be purchased in Switzerland until the actual departure, whether on or off the train.

 

[nwales58]

Sharp practice is behaviour that is within the rules but intending to obtain an advantage by pushing the rules to their limits.

Almost all this thread is discussing fare systems that are not clear to a user from another country. Maybe rename the thread?

Malicious enforcement used to be common in eastern europe in the 90s. I’ve seen fines issued to tourists without a receipt in Budapest. Bratislava used to be notorious, validators are switched off when ticket checkers board, that used to happen on leaving the main station so visitors trying to validate could not and could be fined. That is sharp practice.

swiss checking passport name agrees with interrail ticket are simply doing their job professionally.

 

[whoosh]

The most common issue is tourists and people from other countries (or those who do not use public transport much) who are unaware about the validation system. To someone coming from the UK (or the many other countries where these validation stamping machines are not used like Ireland / Iceland / AU / NZ / CAN / USA / Russia / Belarus etc) it makes no sense. When you buy a ticket from a ticket machine you would expect it to be valid straight away without having to do anything else.

It makes no sense, until you understand that shops sell tickets as well as machines at stops on the system, and that people can buy a ticket for their return journey now, to save time later on, or now whilst they are at a machine that has change to give.
Then it makes more sense.

When Supertram opened in Sheffield, it opened with ticket machines and ticket validators at all the stops. People couldn't get their head around having to validate a ticket that they'd just purchased, and some machines got vandalised and robbed. In the end Supertram just put a Conductor on each tram - which many people had experienced on buses a decade or so before.

This is cultural difference.

 

[Whisky Papa]

Most of my recent experience has come in Prague, where I've noticed that a disproportionately high number of checks seem to have occurred when I'm going to the airport - although presumably the same inspectors must then also do checks on departing journeys! On the last occasion, a Swiss student was forced to buy a new full-fare ticket (nothing worse) after mistakenly thinking she would be entitled to one at 50% discount. On a previous trip, my wife and I were ignored while a couple of young Czechs were clearly targeted. Not sure if concentrating inspectors on airport routes is 'sharp practice' or just good business sense? It might also help discourage the allegedly high levels of pickpocketing on tourist routes.

Possibly a good job there were no inspectors on one journey from the airport I made a few years back, where three young Chinese businessmen boarded at T2, the terminal for flights within Schengen. They looked bemusedly at the validator for a while, and when it became obvious they spoke English I offered my assistance. Understandably they did they not know the procedure for buying or validating a ticket, but in addition they had not realised the Czech Republic does not use the Euro and had no local currency (they had flown in from Helsinki on a sales tour, apparently). Swapping a small note with them, I then bought them three tickets from the driver - something that might actually be instinctive to us Brits, but I've no idea about China!

 

[The exile]

Going back to the original example -given the destinations directly served by flights from Dresden I would imagine that the number of passengers unfamiliar with the norms of German public transport ticketing will be vanishingly small. There aren’t even flights to Hamburg which, as someone has pointed out is a German outrider in not requiring the validation of tickets (and thus not enabling the pre-purchase of “blanks’).

 

[AdamWW]

Most of my recent experience has come in Prague, where I've noticed that a disproportionately high number of checks seem to have occurred when I'm going to the airport - although presumably the same inspectors must then also do checks on departing journeys!

Anecdotally, my experience is of them concentrating on the airport.

but in addition they had not realised the Czech Republic does not use the Euro and had no local currency

I had a similar problem (a few years back!) when my coach from London to the centre of Prague got rerouted to somewhere on the outskirts by a Metro station.

Even if I had known in advance it wouldn't have helped much, as at the time you weren't supposed to take currency in or out of the country so couldn't get it beforehand.

Fortunately I didn't have to go hunting for an ATM as a kind fellow passenger gave me a ticket. I'm not sure there would have been an ATM anywhere near anyway.

And there was an inspection.

(I was given a number to phone to find out which bus station to use on the way back - but after 10 days travelling around Czechia and Slovakia, mostly sleeping on trains, my letter was a bit the worse for wear and I couldn't read the phone number...)

Going back to the original topic, sort of, I've benefited from what one might call "blunt" practises where I've screwed up and failed to validate a ticket and been let off...

Swapping a small note with them, I then bought them three tickets from the driver - something that might actually be instinctive to us Brits, but I've no idea about China!

I have certainly bought tickets from bus drivers in China. As well as conductors.

 

[Iskra]

The only slightly-harsh ticketing issue I’ve had abroad was in Southern Italy. In the early years of my Italian travels, if you used a route frequently you could buy a quantity of undated paper tickets at a time, and then just validate them each day you used them. After following this process and bulk buying one summer we were down to the last few of our accumulated tickets when we returned the next summer. We validated our paper tickets on our semi-regular journey, and the conductor came around and inspected our tickets. He lambasted us as the paper ticket system had been withdrawn and thus the tickets weren’t valid. I think we got fined a nominal fine, something like 15 Euros each so not the end of the world. The bit that irritated me was that at the time ticketless travel was rife on this particular route and rules are often waived in the South of Italy anyway. Overall Italian rail staff are pretty relaxed, so it was probably just a case of someone having a bad day.

 

[mad_rich]

I agree. A lot of the examples given are not 'sharp practice' at all, but plain old unfamiliarity with the system.

The Interrail Facebook group often sees tales of people who make honest, but careless mistakes, and then seem a bit miffed when they're fined. (And almost without fail, the ticket inspector was 'incredibly rude, and refused to make an exception'.)

-

It is indeed hard in a new city to quickly find out how the public transport system works. I've long been looking for some equivalent of Seat61 where the basic details a tourist needs is easy to see at a glance. Even if a city uses contactless cards, you need to know the implementation.

• Tap in and tap out (eg London tube, Rome buses)
• Tap in only (eg London buses, Rome metro)
• Tap in, optional tap out for cheaper fare if you’re doing a short journey (Brno tram)
• State destination to driver, then tap (Edinburgh Airlink)
• Press a button to choose a ticket, then tap. The ticket is loaded on your debit card (Poznań tram. You also have to memorise what time you tapped in, and how many minutes’ validity you chose)
• Press a button to choose a ticket, then tap and wait for a paper ticket (Prague tram)

Let alone the questions of can I pass my debit card back to my friend? Do I tap again when I change buses? Is there a price cap, or am I just buying single fares? How much will all of this actually cost me?

 

[zero]

I had a day ticket for somewhere in the outskirts of Berlin. I took a train to a "dead end" and then immediately returned, but the same inspector said that was not a valid use of a day ticket and forced me to give her €3.

In Sydney, over 12 years ago when you could buy weekly travelcards as paper tickets, I heard a bus driver say to a passenger "unlimited travel means one return bus journey a day" when that driver's next duty was on a different route and the passenger happened to be changing to the other route.

Depends. On a trip to madrid, a uniformed official told my wife and me we could load two journeys on one physical ticket for use by the pair of us. He omitted to tell us that the ticket needed to be passed back to the other person to be swipped again, despite the lack of turnstiles, rather defeating the purpose of only having one piece of paper and resulting in a 50 euro fine when we came to xit.

Well, it was probably obvious to him that to activate tickets for two people you have to tap twice, otherwise how can it tell how many people are travelling on one physical card?

I think other systems in Spain allow you to use one smartcard for multiple people too, but it's relatively rare elsewhere (and if allowed, may require pressing a button on a machine).

Stockholm's SL card allowed you to pay for tickets for multiple people on one card, but when I tried it the implementation was a bit dodgy, you could not use the automatic barriers and it often confused the human staff.

In 2017 or thereabouts there was a Scotrail offer where multiple passengers could travel on one orange CCST, which also confused many staff.

It's not even consistent throughout Germany. You have to stamp in Berlin yet you don't in Hamburg.

Other inconsistencies I noticed between German travel systems include whether you can board buses from all doors or only by the front, and whether bus drivers care about your ticket. I've not travelled extensively in Germany since the D-ticket arrived, so not sure whether that has changed things.

 

[signed]

Mmm, based on my Nice experience, who was there to ask about the rules...

It's usually safe (with the caveats you stated) that if your ticket is a smartcard or a RFID ticket you should assume as needing to validate in and out at every journey on rail (on buses it will depend, tap in absolutely, tap off maybe)

 

[simonw]

I had a day ticket for somewhere in the outskirts of Berlin. I took a train to a "dead end" and then immediately returned, but the same inspector said that was not a valid use of a day ticket and forced me to give her €3.

In Sydney, over 12 years ago when you could buy weekly travelcards as paper tickets, I heard a bus driver say to a passenger "unlimited travel means one return bus journey a day" when that driver's next duty was on a different route and the passenger happened to be changing to the other route.



Well, it was probably obvious to him that to activate tickets for two people you have to tap twice, otherwise how can it tell how many people are travelling on one physical card?

I think other systems in Spain allow you to use one smartcard for multiple people too, but it's relatively rare elsewhere (and if allowed, may require pressing a button on a machine).

Stockholm's SL card allowed you to pay for tickets for multiple people on one card, but when I tried it the implementation was a bit dodgy, you could not use the automatic barriers and it often confused the human staff.

In 2017 or thereabouts there was a Scotrail offer where multiple passengers could travel on one orange CCST, which also confused many staff.


Other inconsistencies I noticed between German travel systems include whether you can board buses from all doors or only by the front, and whether bus drivers care about your ticket. I've not travelled extensively in Germany since the D-ticket arrived, so not sure whether that has changed things.

Maybe it was, but then there is no point in having two tickets on one card. And, having gone to the bother of approaching us and explaining part of the process when we hadn't asked for help, why not complete the explanation of the process.

 

[nw1]

I never really knew why this happened, but in July 1987 I travelled alone from the Muenstertal branch in the Black Forest to Freiburg and return, out morning, back early afternoon. I definitely tried to buy a ticket at first opportunity on the train (my schoolboy German could cope with that!) but for some reason was escorted off the train at Staufen, the first staffed station, and into the ticket office. My original station - Dietzelbach - was a mere halt with no ticket issuing facilities. I didn't have to pay any form of penalty, but I never knew why this happened. I don't even remember anyone explaining to me what the issue was, even in German beyond what I could understand. There seemed to be no other way for passengers boarding at the halts to purchase tickets, other than on the train.

Furthermore the previous year, i.e. 1986, I'd done the same journey with my family and we definitely bought tickets on the train then.

In the meantime the train was held at Staufen station for five minutes while the issue was sorted out.

A complete mystery to me even now. Perhaps because I was a teenager travelling alone (and looked young for my age) and that was unusual, don't know.

Anyone with similar experiences from the 1980s or thereabouts able to shed some lights?

 

[rvdborgt]

I had a day ticket for somewhere in the outskirts of Berlin. I took a train to a "dead end" and then immediately returned, but the same inspector said that was not a valid use of a day ticket and forced me to give her €3.

Of course that's a valid use of a day ticket.

 

[zero]

Maybe it was, but then there is no point in having two tickets on one card. And, having gone to the bother of approaching us and explaining part of the process when we hadn't asked for help, why not complete the explanation of the process.

Yes, the first time I encountered this was on the Seville Metro. I too was confused when the guy told me I could just buy one ticket for two people. Then we both tried to enter the barriers on one tap and he looked at us like we were idiots before coming through, snatching the card back and tapping it again.

After I understood how it works, it makes a lot of sense. For Madrid, you have to pay for the card itself, and you can purchase a bundle of 10 journeys for a discount (from memory, the cost of 6 or 7 individual journeys). So two people taking 5 journeys can just buy one card and one bundle, which is a decent saving on 2x 5 singles and 2 cards. You could also have 3 people take 2 journeys and 2 people take 2 journeys later - and the only way for the card to know is for each passenger to tap it (you don't have to pass it back, the person with the card opens the gate for the others and then walks through last).

 

[bspahh]

It is indeed hard in a new city to quickly find out how the public transport system works. I've long been looking for some equivalent of Seat61 where the basic details a tourist needs is easy to see at a glance. Even if a city uses contactless cards, you need to know the implementation.

• Tap in and tap out (eg London tube, Rome buses)
• Tap in only (eg London buses, Rome metro)
• Tap in, optional tap out for cheaper fare if you’re doing a short journey (Brno tram)
• State destination to driver, then tap (Edinburgh Airlink)
• Press a button to choose a ticket, then tap. The ticket is loaded on your debit card (Poznań tram. You also have to memorise what time you tapped in, and how many minutes’ validity you chose)
• Press a button to choose a ticket, then tap and wait for a paper ticket (Prague tram)

Let alone the questions of can I pass my debit card back to my friend? Do I tap again when I change buses? Is there a price cap, or am I just buying single fares? How much will all of this actually cost me?

I find www.wikivoyage.org pretty good for information on public transport. If its wrong, then you can edit it.

These are the descriptions for the cities you mentioned

https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/London#By_public_transport

Rome – Travel guide at Wikivoyage

en.wikivoyage.org

Brno – Travel guide at Wikivoyage

en.wikivoyage.org

Edinburgh – Travel guide at Wikivoyage

en.wikivoyage.org

Poznań – Travel guide at Wikivoyage

en.wikivoyage.org

Prague – Travel guide at Wikivoyage

en.wikivoyage.org

I find the articles for cities are generally pretty good with enough detail for common journeys, like how to transfer from the local airports to the city centre, without going into excessive detail.

They will also have links to the WWW sites for the companies that run the services, so you can check the details.

 

[The exile]

I agree. A lot of the examples given are not 'sharp practice' at all, but plain old unfamiliarity with the system.

The Interrail Facebook group often sees tales of people who make honest, but careless mistakes, and then seem a bit miffed when they're fined. (And almost without fail, the ticket inspector was 'incredibly rude, and refused to make an exception'.)

-

It is indeed hard in a new city to quickly find out how the public transport system works. I've long been looking for some equivalent of Seat61 where the basic details a tourist needs is easy to see at a glance. Even if a city uses contactless cards, you need to know the implementation.

• Tap in and tap out (eg London tube, Rome buses)
• Tap in only (eg London buses, Rome metro)
• Tap in, optional tap out for cheaper fare if you’re doing a short journey (Brno tram)
• State destination to driver, then tap (Edinburgh Airlink)
• Press a button to choose a ticket, then tap. The ticket is loaded on your debit card (Poznań tram. You also have to memorise what time you tapped in, and how many minutes’ validity you chose)
• Press a button to choose a ticket, then tap and wait for a paper ticket (Prague tram)

Let alone the questions of can I pass my debit card back to my friend? Do I tap again when I change buses? Is there a price cap, or am I just buying single fares? How much will all of this actually cost me?

Unfortunately even in this day and age where obtaining official information on the web in advance should be easy, you often come up against a brick wall because the English version was done "on the cheap" by someone in the back office who thought they knew English.

 

[DelW]

Going back to the original example -given the destinations directly served by flights from Dresden I would imagine that the number of passengers unfamiliar with the norms of German public transport ticketing will be vanishingly small. There aren’t even flights to Hamburg which, as someone has pointed out is a German outrider in not requiring the validation of tickets (and thus not enabling the pre-purchase of “blanks’).

Edit: I misunderstood the point being made in the post quoted above.

What an odd statement - of course there are flights to Dresden and Hamburg, I've flown to and from both, albeit some years ago. They merely involve a change of aircraft, usually at Frankfurt or Munich when I travelled. It adds an hour or so to the journey, but can often still be the quickest option.

Most regional German airports can be reached from Britain with a single change, although flight + train is sometimes easier than two flights.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Not only validation systems, but even the most basic validity rules. Last weekend I was on a bus in Amsterdam when a tourist entered and wondered why his ticket was rejected by the validator when trying to check in.
Turned out he had just bought a GVB day ticket, but the bus to his hotel was operated by Syntus so his ticket wasn't valid there although the trip was within Amsterdam.

Most bus drivers would allow you to travel at own risk in those cases, but you will have a problem when tickets are checked.

I do notice myself often that it's pretty hard to find those rules when you are not familiar with ticketing in a town abroad. Usually they are not even mentioned on the website as locals now it already.

That GVB cap and day ticket excluding NS and regional buses is a little cumbersome.

The OV-chipkaart system/OVpay system is great and a cut above anything here, but it definitely needs regional capping as the next major update, because the current operator based cap incentivise you to take awkward routes (at least with the Randstad urban transport systems) to avoid non-capped operators e.g. Sloterdijk to Centraal is much faster on NS, but using the GVB metro is cheaper.

 

[The exile]

What an odd statement - of course there are flights to Dresden and Hamburg, I've flown to and from both, albeit some years ago. They merely involve a change of aircraft, usually at Frankfurt or Munich when I travelled. It adds an hour or so to the journey, but can often still be the quickest option.

Most regional German airports can be reached from Britain with a single change, although flight + train is sometimes easier than two flights.

When are the Dresden- Hamburg flights then? I couldn’t see any on the airport’s website. I was talking about the volumes / proportion of people likely to be arriving at Dresden airport who are unfamiliar with German ticketing conventions. In proportional terms I guess it is significantly lower than (say) Hahn, Karlsruhe or Memmingen. Doesn’t mean that there’s no need for tourist-friendly ticketing at airports as a general point, though.

 

[D400.50050]

What an odd statement - of course there are flights to Dresden and Hamburg, I've flown to and from both, albeit some years ago. They merely involve a change of aircraft, usually at Frankfurt or Munich when I travelled. It adds an hour or so to the journey, but can often still be the quickest option.

Most regional German airports can be reached from Britain with a single change, although flight + train is sometimes easier than two flights.

Read the post again.

There is/were no flights to Dresden FROM/TO Hamburg...

Nothing was said abouts flights from The UK to Dresden and Hamburg

 

[DelW]

When are the Dresden- Hamburg flights then? I couldn’t see any on the airport’s website. I was talking about the volumes / proportion of people likely to be arriving at Dresden airport who are unfamiliar with German ticketing conventions. In proportional terms I guess it is significantly lower than (say) Hahn, Karlsruhe or Memmingen. Doesn’t mean that there’s no need for tourist-friendly ticketing at airports as a general point, though.

Read the post again.

There is/were no flights to Dresden FROM/TO Hamburg...

Nothing was said abouts flights from The UK to Dresden and Hamburg

Okay, I misunderstood the earlier post, I misread it as being about flights from other countries to Dresden and/or Hamburg.

But there will still be some numbers of passengers arriving at Dresden from other countries, via a change of plane at (e.g.) Frankfurt or Munich, who won't necessarily be familiar with German ticketing methods.

As it happens, I do agree that these can be inconsistent and potentially confusing. On my last trip to (I think) Munich, I bought an S-bahn ticket from the airport station TVM, but it wouldn't fit the platform validator. Fortunately a local was there to tell me that that particular type of ticket was sold pre-validated and didn't need to be (in fact couldn't be) stamped.

 

[D400.50050]

Okay, I misunderstood the earlier post, I misread it as being about flights from other countries to Dresden and/or Hamburg.

But there will still be some numbers of passengers arriving at Dresden from other countries, via a change of plane at (e.g.) Frankfurt or Munich, who won't necessarily be familiar with German ticketing methods.

As it happens, I do agree that these can be inconsistent and potentially confusing. On my last trip to (I think) Munich, I bought an S-bahn ticket from the airport station TVM, but it wouldn't fit the platform validator. Fortunately a local was there to tell me that that particular type of ticket was sold pre-validated and didn't need to be (in fact couldn't be) stamped.

Absolutely agree..

I got caught out in Hannover many moons ago. Got a ticket at the Airport going to Lehrte with a change at Hbf. Was on the second leg when an RPI came round.

Was a nice chap explained what had to be done and just gripped it and moved on.

Also got moaned at about being in the wrong class but for the better... fast forward a few years Was in Hamburg staying at the Intercity Hotel at Altona (you get/got free local ticket for the duration of your stay). Was going to Harburg. Train was busy so was stood in the vestibule just after Hbf gripper comes round jibber jabbing at me. I'm like no idea what your saying chief. (Was beyond my German), local said I shouldn't be in standard I should be in first class!

So sampled Metronoms first class and a fire works display on the way back, guard even turned the lights off and driver went slow between Hbf and Dammtor so we could enjoy it (probably shouldn't of done that but...).