Class 43 power cars: more examples should be preserved

[Charemax69]

I was at the Weardale 125 event on Sunday 17th August with 159 & 060(200) and it re-kindled my love of these fabulous icons, and it got me asking around why not save 43151, the former "Blue Peter II" currently on Scotrail's fleet and Angel Train's ROSCO ownership?

Craig Owen and the wonderful team at 125 Group hammered into me that Romic have essentially bought all the remaining 43 Scotrail (Angel) fleet and their respective Mk3's, so would-be preservationists have no chance.

I fully respect their wisdom, and they would certainly know, but is there any flicker of hope that Angel might release a handful of power cars and Mk3's to the heritage lines and groups, as they did with some of the 142 Pacers some years back?

The Weardale 125 excursion and running day was very popular. A shortened 125 set in the North East, ideally based on the Weardale Railway, would surely get some public interest, especially if it was "Blue Peter II" being named at Newcastle back in the past.

We can't have all those 52 sets scattered across to Mexico, Nigeria or broken to supply them with spares, never to see these isles again. I am not against the idea of export - the HSTs a wonderful machine - but a few more need saving to stay here, particularly iconically named celebrity ones like 43151 "Blue Peter II" as it's the loco that could - with the help of the BBC's yes now web based flagship Children's Show - garner some youthful interest in engineering, and any young enthusiastic 9-year-old can turn into a 16-year-old apprentice and future 21-year-old engineer. A1 532 Blue Peter was named after a race horse, yet, 43151 was named after the programme!

Blue Peter has kindled many kids into activism and inspired them, so how about it?

Incidentally, my Scotrail Haymarket depot insight folks on here, can anyone tell me what set 151 is hitched with Mk3's and opposite power unit? Why have just 151, when the whole set could be set put aside by Angel, with Romic's agreement?

 

[43096]

I was at the Weardale 125 Sunday running back on the 17th August with 159 & 060(200) and it re-kindled my love of these fabulous icons,,, and it got me asking around why not save 43151 ,,,, the former "Blue Peter II" currently on Scotrail's fleet and Angel Train's ROSCO ownership,,, yet Craig Owen and the wonderful team at 125 Group hammered into me that Romic have essentially bought all of the remaining 43 Scotrail(Angel) fleet & their respective Mk3's... so would be preservationists have no chance... I fully respect their wisdom and they would certainly know,,, But is their any flicker of hope that Angel might release a handful of power cars and Mk3's to the heritage lines and groups as they did with some of the 142 Pacer's some years back... The Weardale 125 excursion and running day was very popular and a shortened 125 set in the North East ideally based on the Weardale would surely get some public interest... Especially if it was Blue Peter II being named at Newcastle back in the past,,, We can't have all those 52 sets scattered across to Mexico, Nigeria or broken to supply them with spares,,, never to see these isles again,,, and am not against the idea of export,,, the HSTs a wonderful machine,,, But a few more need saving to stay here,,, Particularly iconically named celebrity ones like 43151 Blue Peter II Its the loco that could with the help of the BBC's yes now web based flagship Children's Show garner some youthul interest in engineering and any young enthusiastic 9 year old can turn into a 16 year old apprentice and future 21 year old engineer... A1 532 Blue Peter was named after a race horse,,, yet 43151 was named after the programme ! Blue Peter has kindled many kids into activism and inspired them,,, so how about it?

I am wholly unconvinced that any more HST sets need to be preserved. All that preservation of more would do is dilute the available resources (funds, expertise, and crucially, volunteers' time) to maintain them. 43151 (and indeed the whole of the 43124-152 batch) would/should be at the back of the queue for preservation in any case, given they have the GEC traction motors that have given trouble throughout their lives.

Incidentally my Scotrail Haymarket depot insight folks on here,,, can anyone tell me what set 151 is hitched with Mk3's and opposite power unit... Why have just 151,,, when the whole set could be set put aside by Angel with Romic's agreement?

43151 is currently on set HA18 with 43142, working 1B52 1053 Inverness to Edinburgh: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y65993/2025-09-14/detailed

From that I am reading that you are under a misapprehension that it will always remain on that set? It won't - power cars are swapped on and off sets as needed.

 

[Razorblades]

You've answered your own question. The 142s had no residual value beyond scrap such that they could be given away, the HSTs still have further working life albeit overseas. Romic have got this sewn up, so unless and until the overseas interest dissolves, their future lies there.

 

[43096]

You've answered your own question. The 142s had no residual value beyond scrap such that they could be given away, the HSTs still have further working life albeit overseas. Romic have got this sewn up, so unless and until the overseas interest dissolves, their future lies there.

The 142s were not given away by Angel, they were sold for a reasonable sum with the proceeds donated to charity. That is very different from Porterbrook, who have a lengthy history of donating to preservation.

 

[Charemax69]

I am wholly unconvinced that any more HST sets need to be preserved. All that preservation of more would do is dilute the available resources (funds, expertise, and crucially, volunteers' time) to maintain them. 43151 (and indeed the whole of the 43124-152 batch) would/should be at the back of the queue for preservation in any case, given they have the GEC traction motors that have given trouble throughout their lives.

43151 is currently on set HA18 with 43142, working 1B52 1053 Inverness to Edinburgh: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y65993/2025-09-14/detailed

From that I am reading that you are under a misapprehension that it will always remain on that set? It won't - power cars are swapped on and off sets as needed

I am wholly unconvinced that any more HST sets need to be preserved. All that preservation of more would do is dilute the available resources (funds, expertise, and crucially, volunteers' time) to maintain them. 43151 (and indeed the whole of the 43124-152 batch) would/should be at the back of the queue for preservation in any case, given they have the GEC traction motors that have given trouble throughout their lives.

43151 is currently on set HA18 with 43142, working 1B52 1053 Inverness to Edinburgh: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y65993/2025-09-14/detailed

From that I am reading that you are under a misapprehension that it will always remain on that set? It won't - power cars are swapped on and off sets as needed.

Thanks for the info on the GEC motors,,, Preservation operation is a different scenario to commercial day to day operation with week and month long lay ups and re-starting as am sure we all know,,, Nothing that is not insurmountable once in heritage... Havens the number of enthusiasts on the HST preservation scene who want Valenta's back in is longer than the sets themselves !!!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2025 ==

On resources it is indeed a very very valid point,,, and I quite agree the more u have the less the less funds and expertise there are to go around,,, especially on specialist kit ,,, The same could be agrued in classic car and bus preservation,,, very shortly the "Blue Oval Premium" in the classic retro scene will burst,, and folks will have their fingers burnt,,, But as I said later in my piece BPII 43151 would be like its steam namesake a great vehicle to generate future enthusiasts,,, and in turn skill set of the next generation... Look at how 532 helped many youngsters who had never seen a steam train run in the 70s capture their imagination... 125s might not be everyones cup of team but you need good celebrity to get noticed and it could certainly do that..

 

[87electric]

Just get a Blue Peter II nameplate and stick it on any preserved power car.

 

[Razorblades]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2025 ==

On resources it is indeed a very very valid point,,, and I quite agree the more u have the less the less funds and expertise there are to go around,,, especially on specialist kit ,,, The same could be agrued in classic car and bus preservation,,, very shortly the "Blue Oval Premium" in the classic retro scene will burst,, and folks will have their fingers burnt,,, But as I said later in my piece BPII 43151 would be like its steam namesake a great vehicle to generate future enthusiasts,,, and in turn skill set of the next generation... Look at how 532 helped many youngsters who had never seen a steam train run in the 70s capture their imagination... 125s might not be everyones cup of team but you need good celebrity to get noticed and it could certainly do that..

I've followed railways for over 50 years and worked in the industry for over 35, yet I'd never heard of Blue Peter 2 until I read your first post!

Experience has taught me that STEM events hit the mark in a much more effective way than one person's pet locomotive, carriage or wagon, which tend to become a rot-infested money-pit.

 

[43096]

I've followed railways for over 50 years and worked in the industry for over 35, yet I'd never heard of Blue Peter 2 until I read your first post!

That's hardly surprising, the name was applied in May 1987 and removed in November 1989 when the power car received an IC Swallow repaint. The name wasn't deemed relevant/important enough to have a Swallow-type replacement plate applied, which tells you something!

 

[Yorkshire09876]

The nameplates / livery which it once carried are not a good basis for deciding on what ought to be preserves...

 

[Spaceship323]

There's plenty of HST's on the mainline: LSL have 2 sets, WCR have 2 sets and the 125 group have one. The problem with preserving a 125 is where are you going to run it? At least with a steam loco you get to see it uncouple and run around at each end of the line, you wouldn't get that with an HST! Then there's the extra maintenance - Remember that you'll need the aircon to be working because the windows don't open - I can't see any preserved operation taking on the extra complexity for little or no extra revenue

 

[JonathanH]

I can't see any preserved operation taking on the extra complexity for little or no extra revenue

As it is, there are HST power cars at the Colne Valley and Nene Valley Railways, and the 125 Group train will live on a preserved railway. There are a few others dotted around as well. People can head to those railways for their HST fix.

There are only so many weeks in the calendar that each preserved item can operate, only finite siding space, and only so many times people who are HST enthusiasts can visit.

 

[Wyrleybart]

There's plenty of HST's on the mainline: LSL have 2 sets, WCR have 2 sets and the 125 group have one.

Not totally sure but AIUI WCR have eight trailers and a pair of power cars. To me, in old money that is one 2+8 HST provided everything works.

The problem with preserving a 125 is where are you going to run it?

I think you need to define "preserve" first. Let us not forget 56097 which was on a preserved railway, painted into a heritage livery and regarded as preserved. This was sold from preservation, rebuilt into a 69 ands works for GBRf

At least with a steam loco you get to see it uncouple and run around at each end of the line, you wouldn't get that with an HST!

Which could be construed by some to be safer. The driver only nees to stivk the key in the cab they are driving from, and off they go. Don't need a micro collision every time a loco backs into a coach - and definitely in full public. As the world ages the human skills with shunting and coupling locos and rolling stock will decline.

Then there's the extra maintenance - Remember that you'll need the aircon to be working because the windows don't open - I can't see any preserved operation taking on the extra complexity for little or no extra revenue

The big one !! HSTs have electronic equipment which degrades over time. Procuring replacement parts is not easy and will be progressively less so. Even post privatisation trains are suffering component reliability issues on the big railway, so while preserving HSTs seems like a good idea, being mindful of aging electronic components is essential in my view.

 

[Charemax69]

Not totally sure but AIUI WCR have eight trailers and a pair of power cars. To me, in old money that is one 2+8 HST provided everything works.

I think you need to define "preserve" first. Let us not forget 56097 which was on a preserved railway, painted into a heritage livery and regarded as preserved. This was sold from preservation, rebuilt into a 69 ands works for GBRf


Which could be construed by some to be safer. The driver only nees to stivk the key in the cab they are driving from, and off they go. Don't need a micro collision every time a loco backs into a coach - and definitely in full public. As the world ages the human skills with shunting and coupling locos and rolling stock will decline.

The big one !! HSTs have electronic equipment which degrades over time. Procuring replacement parts is not easy and will be progressively less so. Even post privatisation trains are suffering component reliability issues on the big railway, so while preserving HSTs seems like a good idea, being mindful of aging electronic components is essential in my view.

It's the same in the retro classic car scene too Wyrleybart.... the number of 80s cars scrapped for failed ABS Modules these days... the number of SD1s and Mk3 Grannies is frightening

 

[43096]

Not totally sure but AIUI WCR have eight trailers and a pair of power cars. To me, in old money that is one 2+8 HST provided everything works.

WCRC have 12 trailers and two power cars (so far).

The big one !! HSTs have electronic equipment which degrades over time. Procuring replacement parts is not easy and will be progressively less so. Even post privatisation trains are suffering component reliability issues on the big railway, so while preserving HSTs seems like a good idea, being mindful of aging electronic components is essential in my view.

Fortunately, amongst those heavily involved with HST preservation, there is at least one electronics engineer.

 

[D365]

The big one !! HSTs have electronic equipment which degrades over time. Procuring replacement parts is not easy and will be progressively less so. Even post privatisation trains are suffering component reliability issues on the big railway, so while preserving HSTs seems like a good idea, being mindful of aging electronic components is essential in my view.

Fortunately, amongst those heavily involved with HST preservation, there is at least one electronics engineer.

Some of the power cars e.g. FGW/GWR received substantial electronic modifications around the time their engines were replaced. I’m not so familiar with the subfleets formerly operated by the other regions/TOCs, but with some power cars still in regular mainline traffic there is enough expertise within the industry to maintain the heritage examples (and the contemporary 56s).

 

[s491]

Some of the power cars e.g. FGW/GWR received substantial electronic modifications around the time their engines were replaced. I’m not so familiar with the subfleets formerly operated by the other regions/TOCs, but with some power cars still in regular mainline traffic there is enough expertise within the industry to maintain the heritage examples (and the contemporary 56s).

FGW/GWR received next to NO electronic modifications when they were re-powered. Every other fleet did!

 

[D365]

FGW/GWR received next to NO electronic modifications when they were re-powered. Every other fleet did!

I was lead to believe that the original electronic cards were salvaged for reuse on Class 56 locomotives. Going by the number of FGW stickers that I have seen within Class 56 electronic compartments.

 

[s491]

I was lead to believe that the original electronic cards were salvaged for reuse on Class 56 locomotives. Going by the number of FGW stickers that I have seen within Class 56 electronic compartments.

As other fleets went to Loughborough for overhaul, there was a massive float for 117 power cars that retained the original electronics. So FGW kept the bulk of them from all the fleets post re-engineering and the remainder obviously ended up in a general float at Unipart or went "walkies"....

 

[43096]

On resources it is indeed a very very valid point,,, and I quite agree the more u have the less the less funds and expertise there are to go around,,, especially on specialist kit ,,, The same could be agrued in classic car and bus preservation,,, very shortly the "Blue Oval Premium" in the classic retro scene will burst,, and folks will have their fingers burnt,,, But as I said later in my piece BPII 43151 would be like its steam namesake a great vehicle to generate future enthusiasts,,, and in turn skill set of the next generation... Look at how 532 helped many youngsters who had never seen a steam train run in the 70s capture their imagination... 125s might not be everyones cup of team but you need good celebrity to get noticed and it could certainly do that..

And exactly how many youngsters today are even aware of Blue Peter? 43151 was named, briefly, 35 years or more ago - it’s an utter irrelevance in terms of attracting people, and certainly isn’t a celebrity. It has absolutely zero claim to fame and nothing special that marks it out for preservation. If you want celebrity, then 43159 - as the world rail diesel speed record holder - trumps anything else, and that is already preserved and is active on the mainline. It’s one of the three most significant items of rolling stock in British railway history, along with Mallard and 43102.

 

[Wyrleybart]

WCRC have 12 trailers and two power cars (so far).

Thanks for that. So presumably three "GW" four car rakes or one 8 car and half a set of spares. Two power cars and no spares . maintenance. Guessing WCR will acquire more as the remaining "Castles" are stood down.

Fortunately, amongst those heavily involved with HST preservation, there is at least one electronics engineer.

Very good position to be in, and reminds me of the Class 50 alliance, who also have electronics expertise, essential for developing future fixes. I believe they have a replacement "KV10" design for their fleet - whatever that is or does.

 

[43096]

Thanks for that. So presumably three "GW" four car rakes or one 8 car and half a set of spares.

It's three GWR 4-car sets they have acquired.

Two power cars and no spares . maintenance. Guessing WCR will acquire more as the remaining "Castles" are stood down.

I'd say that is likely.

 

[HOOVER29]

Thanks for that. So presumably three "GW" four car rakes or one 8 car and half a set of spares. Two power cars and no spares . maintenance. Guessing WCR will acquire more as the remaining "Castles" are stood down.

Very good position to be in, and reminds me of the Class 50 alliance, who also have electronics expertise, essential for developing future fixes. I believe they have a replacement "KV10" design for their fleet - whatever that is or does.

Each Class 50 is fitted with 2 KV10s. One designated CU3 regulates the main traction generator output power. The other, CU6 regulates the voltage output from the Electric Train Heating (ETH) generator.

As for the Castles I understood that when they’re finished with they’re off abroad

 

[Wyrleybart]

Each Class 50 is fitted with 2 KV10s. One designated CU3 regulates the main traction generator output power. The other, CU6 regulates the voltage output from the Electric Train Heating (ETH) generator.

As for the Castles I understood that when they’re finished with they’re off abroad

Thanks tor that "Hoover 29".

 

[Colby James]

The ones that need saving from Scotrail for Bo'ness,

43003 as that's 43002's sister and second other classmate and ex 253001's partner.

43127 would be good for the railway itself.
And three MK3 HST sets.

Should ask Bo'ness and Kinnell Railway for that idea.