Impossible to buy advertised fare?

[Shrop]

This morning (Saturday) my wife and I travelled from East Croydon to Gatwick Airport.

The advertised fare (on the National Rail app) for two with senior railcards is £5.40, but it's seemingly impossible to actually buy these tickets.

The ticket machine price is significantly more, as is the ticket office price. The website says this is the contactless price, but that offers no opportunity to use our railcards.

The Revenue Protection Officers tried to help (as we had a few minutes spare so we asked), but they couldn't see how to actually buy these tickets.

So we paid £9.00, which I'm not grumbling about, but my point is why advertise a fare that is impossible to actually purchase? Have I missed something obvious?

 

[Haywain]

The website says this is the contactless price, but that offers no opportunity to use our railcards.

You can use Oyster for this with a railcard discount, but you cannot buy a ticket at that fare.

 

[Shrop]

You can use Oyster for this with a railcard discount, but you cannot buy a ticket at that fare.

Thanks. Do you mean you can only get that fate with Oyster, or that this fare isn't available at all?

 

[Snow1964]

Thanks. Do you mean you can only get that fate with Oyster, or that this fare isn't available at all?

You can only get it with oyster, if the railcard has been added to oyster.

I am not aware that staff at East Croydon can add the railcard, so it is effectively false advertising because it requires this to be previously done elsewhere.
It would be bit like advertising petrol at £1.25 then when you are at pump saying only available if you have previously picked up a card at our Glasgow branch to get the advertised lower price

 

[Watershed]

Yes, the £5.40 price is based on using Oyster with a Railcard discount applied. Oyster fares are often cheaper than paper fares.

 

[Shrop]

Yes, the £5.40 price is based on using Oyster with a Railcard discount applied. Oyster fares are often cheaper than paper fares.

Thanks, that makes sense. It would help if NRE made that apparent, but at least we'll know for another time

 

[Haywain]

I am not aware that staff at East Croydon can add the railcard, so it is effectively false advertising

To suggest it's false advertising is ridiculous - it could be clearer but it is undoubtedly available as a fare.

 

[Shrop]

To suggest it's false advertising is ridiculous - it could be clearer but it is undoubtedly available as a fare.

Okay, so you say this is available as a fare. I believe you're probably right, BUT ... I called to the station from our hotel the previous evening as I was interested and it was nearby, and I also asked about it just before buying the (more expensive) tickets that we actually used.
During my investigations I spoke to 3 staff from the the ticket office, and 6 revenue protection staff (some of whom were consulted by their own colleagues). Not one of them had any idea how this advertised fare could be obtained.
I suspect that well over 99% of the travelling public don't have the time or knowledge to seek advice from a forum like this in advance of travelling, you would hope staff at the station would be the people who would know. I only know now (too late) having been unable to find out before travelling.
This really doesn't speak well of our rail fare structure and how it's operated in practice

 

[Paul Kelly]

You can use Oyster for this with a railcard discount, but you cannot buy a ticket at that fare.

Neither can you get that price using contactless, as the screenshot indicated. But it is not surprising for NRE to be so misleading.

 

[talldave]

Neither can you get that price using contactless, as the screenshot indicated. But it is not surprising for NRE to be so misleading.

Brfares also indicates that the price is available with contactless

 

[Shrop]

Brfares also indicates that the price is available with contactless

Yes, it's all misleading information. So far as I can see this fare is simply not available unless you have a pre-purchased Oyster card which has to also include railcard discount.
It is NOT available simply using contactless, because that method cannot accommodate a separate railcard to be used at the contactless barrier point.

 

[Haywain]

So far as I can see this fare is simply not available unless you have a pre-purchased Oyster card which has to also include railcard discount.

Or a KeyGo account with a railcard applied.

 

[Snow1964]

Yes, it's all misleading information. So far as I can see this fare is simply not available unless you have a pre-purchased Oyster card which has to also include railcard discount.
It is NOT available simply using contactless, because that method cannot accommodate a separate railcard to be used at the contactless barrier point.

Or a KeyGo account with a railcard applied.

That's why I think it is false advertising, or if you are charitable, misleading.

You simply cannot get the fare unless you have previously also done 2 things, obtained a railcard, and previously added it to oyster or keygo.

The fare might exist, but it is not clear that it is dependent on buying something else (railcard) and having an enabling transaction, before purchasing. The fare is just step 3 of a 3 part process which I don't believe you can do in one transaction anywhere (if all 3 parts can be done together, happy to be corrected)

 

[talldave]

That's why I think it is false advertising, or if you are charitable, misleading.

You simply cannot get the fare unless you have previously also done 2 things, obtained a railcard, and previously added it to oyster or keygo.

At least it's achievable on Oyster. It's not possible using contactless (assuming that contactless in the railway world means the same as it does on the rest of the planet).

 

[reb0118]

You simply cannot get the fare unless you have.......obtained a railcard.

Surely this applies to all railcard fares, regardless of medium. Obviously disregarding dishonest and/or erroneous selecting of the railcard when one is not actually held.

 

[OneOfThe48]

That's why I think it is false advertising, or if you are charitable, misleading.

You simply cannot get the fare unless you have previously also done 2 things, obtained a railcard, and previously added it to oyster or keygo.

So they should just not tell you what the cheapest fare for the journey is?

Cue complaints about people not being told that it’s cheaper to travel using an Oyster card and encouraging people to spend more by proxy

 

[talldave]

So they should just not tell you what the cheapest fare for the journey is?

Cue complaints about people not being told that it’s cheaper to travel using an Oyster card and encouraging people to spend more by proxy

The OP stated that the price was described as contactless, with Railcard discount, which is just not possible.

So no, they shouldn't show a price which is impossible to obtain.

 

[OneOfThe48]

The OP stated that the price was described as contactless, with Railcard discount, which is just not possible.

So no, they shouldn't show a price which is impossible to obtain.

It is described as contactless, which refers to the different types of pay as you go contactless payment systems, such as Oyster, the various pay as you go TOC smartcards as well as Contactless with your bank card

I do not use the app, but the national rail ticketing website provides more information about what ‘contactless’ means.

In any case, the person I was responding to was suggesting that any advertisement of Oyster fares is misleading as you have to get an Oyster card first.

Saying that the misleading thing is showing the railcard discounted Oyster fare is a red herring, as you wouldn’t add a railcard discount if you didn’t have it

 

[talldave]

It is described as contactless, which refers to the different types of pay as you go contactless payment systems, such as Oyster, the various pay as you go TOC smartcards as well as Contactless with your bank card

I do not use the app, but the national rail ticketing website provides more information about what ‘contactless’ means.

In any case, the person I was responding to was suggesting that any advertisement of Oyster fares is misleading as you have to get an Oyster card first.

Saying that the misleading thing is showing the railcard discounted Oyster fare is a red herring, as you wouldn’t add a railcard discount if you didn’t have it

I disagree. NR site says (when you click on contactless) "pay as you go is available with an Oyster card or when using contactless."

The word contactless is almost as universal as cash and refers to credit/debit bank cards or Apple/Google/etc pay equivalents.

 

[sprunt]

The lengths some people will go to defend the rail industry on here are astounding. The fare is advertised as "based on the contactless fare". To the public - the people at whom the NRE site is targeted - that means paying using a contactless card or Google/Apple pay. If the rail industry wants to include Oyster within its internal definition of contactless that's fine, but it shouldn't be extended to public-facing communications, those should use words as they are commonly understood. The screenshot above is clearly misleading as it suggests contactless cards can be used in conjunction with a railcard, which they can't. It should explicitly state that the fare can be achieved using an Oyster (or other smartcard) with a railcard loaded onto it.

 

[Haywain]

The lengths some people will go to defend the rail industry on here are astounding.

So, whoi is it on this thread that has chosen to "defend the rail industry"? Or are you saying that everyone posting on the forums should be critical of the industry at all times?

 

[sprunt]

So, whoi is it on this thread that has chosen to "defend the rail industry"?

Those who are defending this clearly misleading fare advertisement as not being misleading

Or are you saying that everyone posting on the forums should be critical of the industry at all times?

No. I'm saying they shouldn't, as they so often do, defend the indefensible. What did I say that made you think I was saying what you suggested given that I provided my reasoning for why, on this occasion, I believe they are wrong?

 

[Shrop]

Update from me as the OP ... I've just tried the TfL website and as far as I can see, the Oyster Card is available with Senior railcard discount but ONLY if you live in a London Borough, which I don't.
There is plenty of info on their website, but none of it is very helpful because it raises as many questions as it addresses. It points towards using contactless rather than Oyster, but I can't find any usable info for those who aren't London residents. It suggested that I register on their site, which I've done, and I've tried to register my existing Oyster cards, but it won't accept them as I've not used them within the last 8 weeks. So now I don't know whether I can add my senior railcard to my existing card(s), or whether I can only do this if I live in London.
There is a helpline number, but it's always engaged (as most helpline numbers are), and waiting for 15 minutes gets me nowhere. So I opted for their callback facility, which they did after over an hour and a half, but when I raced to the phone, they hung up before I could answer, despite answering within 10 seconds.
So I'm no further forward as it seems that the contactless fare at railcard discount is ONLY available FOR LONDON RESIDENTS, but I can't get any further info from their website or from their helpline.
If anyone knows any more than this, I'd be pleased to know.

 

[sprunt]

Update from me as the OP ... I've just tried the TfL website and as far as I can see, the Oyster Card is available with Senior railcard discount but ONLY if you live in a London Borough, which I don't.

I don't know for sure, but this sounds wrong to me. Certainly when I've had a railcard added to an Oyster card in the past there's been no questions about where I live.

 

[MrJeeves]

Update from me as the OP ... I've just tried the TfL website and as far as I can see, the Oyster Card is available with Senior railcard discount but ONLY if you live in a London Borough, which I don't.

That sounds like you read about the 60+ Oyster, rather than adding a Senior Railcard to an Oyster card.

National Railcard discounts

National Railcard discounts on Tube, DLR, London Overground, Elizabeth line and National Rail services

tfl.gov.uk

 

[Joe Paxton]

I don't know for sure, but this sounds wrong to me. Certainly when I've had a railcard added to an Oyster card in the past there's been no questions about where I live.

It's incorrect. Railcard discounts on Oyster are available to anyone - absolutely no need to be a London resident.

That sounds like you read about the 60+ Oyster, rather than adding a Senior Railcard to an Oyster card.

Agreed.

 

[Watershed]

The only requirement is to have bought an Oyster card, and to have registered that cards. Registration can be done either online (though this requires you to have made a journey within the last 8 weeks) or at a ticket machine when you go to an Underground station to get the discount applied.

Station staff are sometimes reluctant to apply the discount because of 'understaffing' (funnily enough this always seems to be the excuse given!) and some claim the Oyster card must have been registered online - but that's not correct; it is absolutely possible at a machine. It just takes extra time - which staff with that kind of attitude often don't seem willing to spend away from their newspaper/colleagues/phone...

London residents aged 60+ get free off-peak travel by applying for a 60+ Oyster card, but that's a completely different offer. The page on the TfL website which details the rules about Railcard discounts on Oyster is here:

National Railcard discounts

National Railcard discounts on Tube, DLR, London Overground, Elizabeth line and National Rail services

tfl.gov.uk

 

[MrJeeves]

some claim the Oyster card must have been registered online - but that's not correct; it is absolutely possible at a machine.

A hot issues bulletin went out about this recently, clarifying that registering online and at the machine are two separate things, and that adding a discount does not require online registration before it can be done.

 

[Buzby]

Is the lower fare advertised anywhere else? (Like a publicly viewable poster?). The ASA has just slapped down AliExpress for allowing vendors to advertise products at an unachievable price, by including accessories etc but the main item at a higher price is hidden - a bait-and-switch. This seems to be a similar tactic for travel.

 

[Haywain]

the Oyster Card is available with Senior railcard discount but ONLY if you live in a London Borough,

Definitely not true - I have an Oyster with a Senior Railcard discount and live well outside London.