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TOC-specific policies

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GordonT

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One of the features of the UK's fragmented railway system has been the evolving of policies and procedures which are separate from the national rulebook and are specific to each TOC.

Sometimes TOC A will have a completely different, and sometimes diametrically opposite policy for dealing with a given situation to that which prevails in TOC B.

Some questions which come to my mind are shown below. Others may have better questions arising from this subject.
  1. Have TOC-specific policies largely survived subsequent changes of ownership (including nationalisation)?
  2. Have there been any cases where a TOC-specific policy appears to contradict the rulebook?
  3. Do TOCs tend to produce hard copy booklets detailing their specific policies, or is it all contained on staff access websites?
 
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skyhigh

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ii) Have there been any cases where a TOC-specific policy appears to contradict the rulebook?
There are plenty of cases where the policies are more strict than the rulebook requires, but I've never heard of any that contradict the rule book to reduce safety, if that's what you're asking? For obvious reasons, that would not be tolerated.
i) Have TOC-specific policies largely survived subsequent changes of ownership (including nationalisation)?
They normally do because the operation standards teams won't change with changes in ownership.
 

GordonT

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There are plenty of cases where the policies are more strict than the rulebook requires, but I've never heard of any that contradict the rule book to reduce safety, if that's what you're asking?
I wasn't actually thinking of contradictions which reduced safety - just thinking that it doesn't seem ideal to have two sources of reference for a given situation with the TOC policy version trumping the national rulebook version.
 

43066

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I wasn't actually thinking of contradictions which reduced safety - just thinking that it doesn't seem ideal to have two sources of reference for a given situation with the TOC policy version trumping the national rulebook version.

It isn’t an issue because TOCs will provide differences training on those areas that vary from the “standard” rule book. The different levels of emphasis/TOC specific rule books also reflect the drastically varying nature of different parts of the railway network. I certainly wouldn’t expect these differences to disappear just because of renationalisation.
 

zwk500

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I wasn't actually thinking of contradictions which reduced safety - just thinking that it doesn't seem ideal to have two sources of reference for a given situation with the TOC policy version trumping the national rulebook version.
It's not "trumping" the rulebook as such, as the rulebook is still complied with.

E.g. At Mitre Bridge Jn London Overground change traction system on the move, whereas GTR have a policy of stopping to do so. Both methods comply with the rulebook.
 

185

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i) Have TOC-specific policies largely survived subsequent changes of ownership (including nationalisation)?
This was being discussed at one operator last week.. their Ops Standards department was being referred to as the department of creating additional paperwork necessary to keep themselves in jobs - a department of 27 as opposed to their post BR department of 3. The widely used industry standard software, called ACMS (Assesstech ltd Competency Management System) was considered to be a breakthrough in reducing the time spent rooting through staff paperwork, in order to work out who is due to be monitored, assessed etc. At the time of ACMS arriving there were promises of fewer staff being required to manage traincrew. Despite this, the unexplored result in terms of management staff ratios was quite astounding.

Amongst traincrew, the ratio of managers to staff, in 1998 was around 35 guards or 30 drivers to one manager. Add in the current swathe of area and middle managers also responsible, but remove the heads of department, the current ratio is around 10 guards or drivers to one manager.

As for nationalisation, it seems to have no (immediate) effect on management numbers or policies - as TUPE brings most of the problem leadership to the new company. For example, one company has a guards must step down first before releasing doors policy. The neighbouring company does not - as long as you can see your train. Another company insists on steel toe caps, whilst it's neighbour insists on non-slip only. Neither company's policies have changed since nationalisation.

One part of the problem seems to be rule writer the err 'not for profit' RSSB Ltd company number 04655675. I've no issues with a safe, assessed, regulated railway, but this seems to be another cog in the machine that requires an inordinate amount of exceptionally well paid people to run it.
 

43066

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This was being discussed at one operator last week.. their Ops Standards department was being referred to as the department of creating additional paperwork necessary to keep themselves in jobs - a department of 27 as opposed to their post BR department of 3. The widely used industry standard software, called ACMS (Assesstech ltd Competency Management System) was considered to be a breakthrough in reducing the time spent rooting through staff paperwork, in order to work out who is due to be monitored, assessed etc. At the time of ACMS arriving there were promises of fewer staff being required to manage traincrew. Despite this, the unexplored result in terms of management staff ratios was quite astounding.

Amongst traincrew, the ratio of managers to staff, in 1998 was around 35 guards or 30 drivers to one manager. Add in the current swathe of area and middle managers also responsible, but remove the heads of department, the current ratio is around 10 guards or drivers to one manager.

As for nationalisation, it seems to have no (immediate) effect on management numbers or policies - as TUPE brings most of the problem leadership to the new company. For example, one company has a guards must step down first before releasing doors policy. The neighbouring company does not - as long as you can see your train. Another company insists on steel toe caps, whilst it's neighbour insists on non-slip only. Neither company's policies have changed since nationalisation.

One part of the problem seems to be rule writer the err 'not for profit' RSSB Ltd company number 04655675. I've no issues with a safe, assessed, regulated railway, but this seems to be another cog in the machine that requires an inordinate amount of exceptionally well paid people to run it.

Some interesting points above - and the ratio of managers to drivers is striking. Presumably because there’s so much more to do nowadays in terms of regularly downloading trains and interpreting said downloads to assess compliance with driving policies, performance improvement plans following incidents, attendance management, route retention, assessment and passing out of new drivers etc. Much of which would have been non existent or much reduced in BR days.

Some of the differences (dispatch methods) will be stock dependent, some will undoubtedly be due to different approaches being adopted at some TOCs not others. The steel toe cap thing is a little daft, and is done to diverging uniform policies.
 

TheManBehind

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This was being discussed at one operator last week.. their Ops Standards department was being referred to as the department of creating additional paperwork necessary to keep themselves in jobs - a department of 27 as opposed to their post BR department of 3. The widely used industry standard software, called ACMS (Assesstech ltd Competency Management System) was considered to be a breakthrough in reducing the time spent rooting through staff paperwork, in order to work out who is due to be monitored, assessed etc. At the time of ACMS arriving there were promises of fewer staff being required to manage traincrew. Despite this, the unexplored result in terms of management staff ratios was quite astounding.
Depends, surely, on what Operational Standards are required to do? If their remit is wider or at a larger operator, they'll naturally need more staff. TOCs have never been shy about putting recruitment freezes in place for departments that are featherbedded, so if there's 27 staff there, they obviously feel there's a need - given the recent state of having to find efficiencies at operators, they're not hiring managers for anything they're not needed for, that's for sure. The world 30 years ago is legislatively and legally very different to today as well - it's no real surprise that the department primarily invested with making sure the railway runs in a safe way has expanded compared to 1998.

Amongst traincrew, the ratio of managers to staff, in 1998 was around 35 guards or 30 drivers to one manager. Add in the current swathe of area and middle managers also responsible, but remove the heads of department, the current ratio is around 10 guards or drivers to one manager.
That's generally a reasonable management ratio in just about every other industry I've seen. 35 crew to one manager means that you get to see your manager twice a year, and maybe an inspector for assessment rides, which is almost to the point of negligence when you consider that the role of a manager in the modern world requires much more than it did 30 years ago. Retail, which offers very standardised but low-risk tasks normally sees 1:20 as a maximum.

You can't adequately look after your team if you don't see them apart from two Time With Your Manager sessions every year - pastoral care and awareness, as well as all the additional activities for managers, plays a much more significant role than it used to - at least one operator introduced non-technical managers while I was there to support this area, leaving managers with actual driver qualifications with more time to do the technical side of the work.

As for nationalisation, it seems to have no (immediate) effect on management numbers or policies - as TUPE brings most of the problem leadership to the new company. For example, one company has a guards must step down first before releasing doors policy. The neighbouring company does not - as long as you can see your train. Another company insists on steel toe caps, whilst it's neighbour insists on non-slip only. Neither company's policies have changed since nationalisation.
Well, it likely won't - railways even now run relatively leanly from a management perspective, much like the NHS. There's little meat to cut from the bone until you start applying rules and procedures in common across TOCs, and given that the majority of activity is expected to be planned and actioned by the routes themselves, I can't see GBR being much more than a common branding, policy, and fares management centre (particularly given the news of a raft of civil servants being transferred over). Routes will still have MDs (or "general managers", although most operators already employ those for their regions), and a board of directors/senior managers to oversee them as the current stance appears to be that they're remaining largely independent, seeking their funding/arguing against subsidy reduction measures individually.

One part of the problem seems to be rule writer the err 'not for profit' RSSB Ltd company number 04655675. I've no issues with a safe, assessed, regulated railway, but this seems to be another cog in the machine that requires an inordinate amount of exceptionally well paid people to run it.
I wouldn't say they were exactly expensive in the grand scheme of it, and they conduct a significant amount of research additional to just producing the rules; it's something that could arguably be absorbed into GBR as a cost-saving measure, but it's funded by the operators either way. The average pay is about £65k not including directors, which given the largely technical nature of the work I wouldn't have thought is exactly obscene.
 

pompeyfan

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Not particularly relevant but not really worthy of a new thread is the observation of how roles have diverged in the last 30 years.

A lot of TOCs have regraded controller roles to manager roles (presumably a cost saving exercise to do away with night / overtime enhancements), however some are still controllers.

Traincrew supervisors are now (duty) resource managers, train service controllers are now train service managers, customer experience and so on.

Even with a standardised title the role varies wildly between TOCs, for example a train service manager at GWR, SWR and GTR have wildly different responsibilities and day to day tasks. Some are more involved in the fleet side of things, some more resources side etc.
 

Carlisle

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I can't see GBR being much more than a common branding, policy, and fares management centre
If that turns out to be correct it’ll be another significant setback for Labour given how much they’ve promoted nationalisation as a solution to so many of its issues.
 
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TheManBehind

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If that turns out to be correct it’ll be another significant setback for Labour given how much they’ve promoted nationalisation as a solution to so many of its issues.
I think half the trouble is simply that no-one knows. GBRTT have now all transferred to NR (for whatever reason), and it feels like in many cases it's the DfTO operators that are setting the future standards for the network - which may or may not actually meet the needs of the (still substantial) passengers on NRC operators, who don't really have much of an input.
 

TPO

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This was being discussed at one operator last week.. their Ops Standards department was being referred to as the department of creating additional paperwork necessary to keep themselves in jobs - a department of 27 as opposed to their post BR department of 3. The widely used industry standard software, called ACMS (Assesstech ltd Competency Management System) was considered to be a breakthrough in reducing the time spent rooting through staff paperwork, in order to work out who is due to be monitored, assessed etc. At the time of ACMS arriving there were promises of fewer staff being required to manage traincrew. Despite this, the unexplored result in terms of management staff ratios was quite astounding.

Amongst traincrew, the ratio of managers to staff, in 1998 was around 35 guards or 30 drivers to one manager. Add in the current swathe of area and middle managers also responsible, but remove the heads of department, the current ratio is around 10 guards or drivers to one manager.

As for nationalisation, it seems to have no (immediate) effect on management numbers or policies - as TUPE brings most of the problem leadership to the new company. For example, one company has a guards must step down first before releasing doors policy. The neighbouring company does not - as long as you can see your train. Another company insists on steel toe caps, whilst it's neighbour insists on non-slip only. Neither company's policies have changed since nationalisation.

One part of the problem seems to be rule writer the err 'not for profit' RSSB Ltd company number 04655675. I've no issues with a safe, assessed, regulated railway, but this seems to be another cog in the machine that requires an inordinate amount of exceptionally well paid people to run it.

I find it slightly amusing that yet again the "ops standards" people are being singled out as non-productive overheads.....

You cannot compare competence management of safety critical operational staff in 2025 with old BR practises. Totally different world- many changes brought in following accidents (as usual).

The requirements have changed massively, from the Train Driving Licences and Certificates Regulations 2010 (implementing an EU Directive) to the mandatory use of OTDR (on train data recording), and the competence requirements of the core railway safety legislation. Just the basics of transfer of safety critical information from one train operator to another when a Driver moves jobs has to be seen to be believed (and that's a Rail Industry Standard- a RIS- published by RSSB and effectively mandatory across all mainlien train operators).

THere's several IT systems in the sector- some costly, some less so- but they are still all databases which require management. Whilst GPS recording has made route knowledge management much easier, someone still has to carry out the risk-based training needs assessment, set up suitable competence cycles and make sure they happen- even when logging assessments directly into an electronic device which feeds th edatabase, the actual human assessment is required.

It's perhaps difficult to explain the expectations on safety critical staff these days compared with BR days. Take the whole drugs & alcohol and medical fitness situation for example- read the Morpeth crash report from the accident on 24 June 1984 and compare to current practice...... what was deemed as OK in those days just wouldn't be allowed in 2025.

Times have changed, and unless the public develop an appetite for increased levels of train accidents, I don't see the requirements for fitness and competence levels (and evidence for maintaining them) being reduced any time soon.

TPO
 
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