Arrivals Platform and Departures Platform

[BeijingDave]

On many old diagrams of terminus stations there will be an arrivals platform and a departures platform, with many centre lines (presumably for stabling and running around).

My question is: how did this work in practice? A train would arrive at the arrivals platform presumably, then its carriages shunted out (possibly releasing its locomotive, or the locomotive itself may have run around), then would have to be shunted into the departures' platform when it was time for passengers to board?

Seems highly inefficient and no wonder it gave way to a system of a number of platforms that allowed both disembarking and boarding.

 

[hexagon789]

On many old diagrams of terminus stations there will be an arrivals platform and a departures platform, with many centre lines (presumably for stabling and running around).

My question is: how did this work in practice? A train would arrive at the arrivals platform presumably, then its carriages shunted out (possibly releasing its locomotive, or the locomotive itself may have run around), then would have to be shunted into the departures' platform when it was time for passengers to board?

Seems highly inefficient and no wonder it gave way to a system of a number of platforms that allowed both disembarking and boarding.

There were still some places this was done until recently.

One I can think of readily is Sligo in Ireland, process exactly as you outline, and they were still doing it until the end of loco-haulage in 2007 I think it was but then there were only 3 trains a day (plus an extra from Dublin on Friday evening, back Monday morning) and two on Sundays.

 

[edwin_m]

Up until at least the 1960s most long-distance trains would shunt off to sidings on arrival and only return to form a departure some time later. I don't know if this happened when these termini were originally built but expect it probably did, and it fits with the idea of separate platforms for arrivals and departures.

With hindsight it's quite easy to see that the major terminus stations would rapidly become unworkable with only one platform each for arrivals and departures, but when first built most of them only served one route with a handful of trains per day. It's fortunate that most did have those sidings between the two platforms, which could be removed and replaced by more platforms as demand increased. Replacement carriage sidings were then built further out from the city, where there was more space and land was cheaper, as well as being easier just to move trains to and from here instead of shunting them around within the actual terminus. But many of the stations still had arrival and departure "sides", with these now each having multiple platforms.

 

[LYradial]

Southport in its heyday was one such station, with no runaround facilities it was necessary to release the incoming engine, the station pilot would release the engine then often run the stock round the triangle to keep the brake end in the correct place.

Anyone else remember this little radial tank and its driver, usually surrounded by a group of small boys going on the footplate one at a time.

the stock was then put in the departure platform though the signalling permitted departures from several platforms but the passengers expected their train to be where it always was.

 

[PeterC]

Liverpool Street was designed this way. Cabs would set down outside the ticket office and passengers would walk through to their main line train in what became platform 9. Another cab road was alongside the arrivals platform. It made a lot of sense from a passenger flow perspective but didn't scale up as traffic increased

 

[Cricketer8for9]

Do you know the layout at Paddington? Platform 8 as the main arrival platform. Cabs came down a ramp and out into Praed St. train gets pulled back to Old Oak Common for servicing. They had back to Paddington via the flyover at Ladbroke Grove, often hauled by a tank engine withe the train engine coming back to the train from the up side Ranelagh Bridge.

Euston as rebuilt 1910-22 had similar ways of getting back to Willesden or Camden with relatively few conflicts.

 

[Magdalia]

On many old diagrams of terminus stations there will be an arrivals platform and a departures platform, with many centre lines (presumably for stabling and running around).

My question is: how did this work in practice? A train would arrive at the arrivals platform presumably, then its carriages shunted out (possibly releasing its locomotive, or the locomotive itself may have run around), then would have to be shunted into the departures' platform when it was time for passengers to board?

Seems highly inefficient and no wonder it gave way to a system of a number of platforms that allowed both disembarking and boarding.

It worked in the days when trains were not frequent, took a long time and were steam hauled. For long distance services most sets of coaching stock only worked one or two trains a day. After the stock had been shunted out steam locos off arrivals had to go on shed to be turned, coaled and watered before they could go out on a departure.

Do you know the layout at Paddington? Platform 8 as the main arrival platform. Cabs came down a ramp and out into Praed St. train gets pulled back to Old Oak Common for servicing. They had back to Paddington via the flyover at Ladbroke Grove, often hauled by a tank engine withe the train engine coming back to the train from the up side Ranelagh Bridge.

The track layout at Paddington was completely changed in 1968 after the end of steam.

At Kings Cross the arrival platform was what is now platform 1. The cab road for arrivals was where platform 0 is now. There is a bit in the film The Ladykillers showing a train arriving in platform 1. The departure platform was what is now platform 8, though until the early 1970s it was numbered platform 10, because there had originally been 8 sidings (numbered 2-9) between the arrivals platform and the departure platform. The steam era Kings Cross layout survived much of the diesel era and was changed in 1977 as part of GN suburban electrification.

 

[edwin_m]

Several other big termini had or still have a cab road to meet arrivals on a platform that was to the left from the point of view of an approaching train. The arch in the end wall of St Pancras connected to one until rebuilding in the 2000s, and I believe Manchester Piccadilly did too.

 

[Helvellyn]

Waterloo Underground - the Waterloo & City still operates with an arrivals and departure platform, with trains shunting via the depot. Given the purpose of the line - to shift large numbers of passengers to the City in the morning, and back in the evening, it still works. It's slightly less efficient at Bank where the same platform is used for arrival/departure (albeit alternating between trains). Having recently used a counter-flow train in the evening peak exiting Bank was a challenge against the flow!

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Several other big termini had or still have a cab road to meet arrivals on a platform that was to the left from the point of view of an approaching train. The arch in the end wall of St Pancras connected to one until rebuilding in the 2000s, and I believe Manchester Piccadilly did too.

Yes, Manchester LR / Piccadilly had a cab road between Platforms 10/11 - latterly used mainly for mail and newspaper vehicles. It was replaced in the 1990 remodelling by travellators to reach the 'satellite lounge' for Platforms 13/14.

 

[Rescars]

When first built, Paddington had arrival and departure platforms with stabling between. Stock was manhandled across the station between the platforms and the stabling roads using a combination of transverse lines and wagon turntables. The apses still to be seen in the station roof indicate where the transverse lines were located. Such were the benefits of operating 4-wheeled coaches with no continuous brakes!

 

[Taunton]

Cab roads were not just used for taxis for arriving passengers; they were key to the nightly newspaper and mails dispatch from London and Manchester, the principal newspaper trains would leave from the "arrivals" platform, the lorries coming in from the printing presses pulling up right next to the relevant vans of the outgoing train.

And of course the Royal Train always used them for the limousine to pull up right next to the Royal Saloon's red carpet.

 

[Magdalia]

the principal newspaper trains would leave from the "arrivals" platform, the lorries coming in from the printing presses pulling up right next to the relevant vans of the outgoing train.

Kings Cross did not work like that. Mail, parcels and news trains left from the main departure platform (now platform 8) or from the adjacent suburban platform (platform 11 until the 1970s now platform 9). There was road access roughly where the western concourse north entrance is now located, and an archway through to the main departure platform near the footbridge. The big remaining clue to this is the name of the pub that's now between platforms 8 and 9 and called the Parcel Yard. Overnight Royal Trains also used the main departure platform with the members of the Royal Family travelling on the train discreetly ushered through the Parcel Yard.

 

[Rescars]

Waterloo Underground - the Waterloo & City still operates with an arrivals and departure platform, with trains shunting via the depot. Given the purpose of the line - to shift large numbers of passengers to the City in the morning, and back in the evening, it still works. It's slightly less efficient at Bank where the same platform is used for arrival/departure (albeit alternating between trains). Having recently used a counter-flow train in the evening peak exiting Bank was a challenge against the flow!

Doesn't the DLR do something similar to Waterloo W&C at its station at Bank, using a turn-back siding?

 

[norbitonflyer]

Bank DLR station still works like that.

There are some on the Paris Metro as well, with trains moving from arrival to departure side via a loop. (Port Dauphine on Line 2, Porte des Lilas on Line 3bis, and Porte de Clignancourt on Line 4, for example) There used to be more (Porte de Vincennes on Line 1, Porte d'Orleans on Line 4, Porte de la villette on Line 7, Porte de Clichy on Line 13) but the lines have since been extended.

There are others where the terminus itself is a single platform on the loop, more like Heathrow terminal 4 or the Liverpool loop

 

[Falcon1200]

My local station, Neilston, has arrival and departure platforms, in this case because it used to be a through line and trains still reverse via a headshunt beyond the platforms.

 

[BeijingDave]

Bank DLR station still works like that.

There are some on the Paris Metro as well, with trains moving from arrival to departure side via a loop. (Port Dauphine on Line 2, Porte des Lilas on Line 3bis, and Porte de Clignancourt on Line 4, for example) There used to be more (Porte de Vincennes on Line 1, Porte d'Orleans on Line 4, Porte de la villette on Line 7, Porte de Clichy on Line 13) but the lines have since been extended.

It's very common for metro termini, but as you mention there is usually a loop or a turnback beyond the platforms that makes it highly efficient. Not buffers at the end of the platform.

I'm fairly sure Manchester Piccadilly's metrolink station works like that (or at least, used to).

 

[norbitonflyer]

My local station, Neilston, has arrival and departure platforms, in this case because it used to be a through line and trains still reverse via a headshunt beyond the platforms.

Knaresborough has terminating trains reverse onto the viaduct rather than depart back towards Leeds from the eastbound platform.

 

[BeijingDave]

Knaresborough has terminating trains reverse onto the viaduct rather than depart back towards Leeds from the eastbound platform.

There are loads of through stations where this happens with terminating services though.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It's very common for metro termini, but as you mention there is usually a loop or a turnback beyond the platforms that makes it highly efficient. Not buffers at the end of the platform.

I'm fairly sure Manchester Piccadilly's metrolink station works like that (or at least, used to).

There's a centre turn back siding just beyond the Piccadilly station undercroft where trams not continuing on towards the Etihad Stadium or Ashton-under-Lyne can reverse. Think it's referred to as the 'Sheffield Street pocket' or the Piccadilly reversing siding. There's a broadly similar set up just beyond Timperley Metrolink station heading towards Navigation Road. The former scissor crossing within Piccadilly undercroft is, I believe, no longer in use. Maybe @507 001 can confirm the above.

 

[edwin_m]

Where services are very frequent and all run on the same route, it's best to have all trains departing from the same platform, or opposite sides of the same island. That way passengers always go to the same place and there isn't the issue of someone heading for a platform, only to find their train has left and they then have to backtrack to wherever the next one is leaving from. Routes like the Victoria line achieve high frequencies with alternating departures from two platforms, with the aid of driver step-back, but for these frequencies it's preferable to have reversal in a turnback or balloon loop beyond the platforms. This also separates the flows of arriving and departing passengers.

The opposite applies to most major main line stations, where departures are less frequent and commonly on more than one route. Then it's better to have a different platform for each train so the platform or concourse isn't clogged up by people waiting for later departures.

 

[Taunton]

The main change to procedures is turning trains round for departure just at the platform. Traditional method was not to do so, but to take them out for servicing in a yard, where processes like sweeping out, watering, etc took place. Furthermore, it was common for the stock to just be used on a given service - the Flying Scotsman Down train one day was not used again until forming the Up train the next day, and so on. Out in the yard there was also commonly remarshalling taking place, trains being made up individually rather than fixed formation.

Both Paddington and Euston had extensive specific provision for the ECS thus needed to and fro, with specific tracks provided for this. Traces can still be seen, for example main line departures nowadays from the low numbered platforms at Euston use a diveunder track beyond the station throat to get onto the Down Main side without conflict - this was originally provided as the 'Empty Carriage' line to get the ECS from incoming arrivals out to their sidings.

 

[Senex]

Several other big termini had or still have a cab road to meet arrivals on a platform that was to the left from the point of view of an approaching train. The arch in the end wall of St Pancras connected to one until rebuilding in the 2000s, and I believe Manchester Piccadilly did too.

At St Pancras you had a set-up where a cab bringing a passenger to the station would turn off the Euston Road and come under the tower arch to drop the passenger off outside the booking office, then carry straight on to drop back down to road level, turn under the tracks (if the driver wished), and come up between the two arrival platforms (later 5 & 6 — 7 was originally designated the excursion pltform) to collect another fare, leaving the station out of the arch opposite those platforms and then heading down the ramp back to the Euston Road.

 

[507 001]

There's a centre turn back siding just beyond the Piccadilly station undercroft where trams not continuing on towards the Etihad Stadium or Ashton-under-Lyne can reverse. Think it's referred to as the 'Sheffield Street pocket' or the Piccadilly reversing siding. There's a broadly similar set up just beyond Timperley Metrolink station heading towards Navigation Road. The former scissor crossing within Piccadilly undercroft is, I believe, no longer in use. Maybe @507 001 can confirm the above.

It’s called Sheffield Street siding. I have made it my one man mission to eradicate the use of the word ‘pocket’, although Sheffield Street was always referred to as a siding.

Of course before the EML was built, the current outbound and inbound roads within the undercroft were the storage road and reversing road. Half of the scissors crossover is still in use, allowing inbound EML services to crossover to the outbound platform. The other half of the crossover had been plain lined until fairly recently but was reinstated to allow manually controlled moves over it during the recent Piccadilly gardens blockade.

The siding at Timperley is still used extensively, and there’s also a siding at Velopark which is used as part of the main service pattern.

 

[Rescars]

Do terminating down Euston trains at Wolverhampton still go out to Oxley to reverse? The effect if this was to create separate arrival and departure platforms at High Level. Back in the day, the loco used to run round its train at Oxley and then form the next up working.

 

[Western 52]

Aberdare is an interesting modern example. Arriving trains call at the "arrivals" platform then continue a short distance to the "departure " platform. I'm not sure if these platforms are technically part of the same station or not, but the arrivals platform appears as "Aberdare 1" on information systems.

 

[Rescars]

Another modern variation is the layout for loading and unloading vehicles from Le Shuttle, with an arrivals (unloading) ramp at one end of the "platform" and a departure (loading ramp at the other). So one platform switches from arrival to departure without any conflict of passenger movement. Meanwhile the use of balloon loops avoids the need for running round to reverse the direction of travel. Has this strict directional ro-ro flow to segregate arrivals and departures at a rail terminal ever been used successfully for foot passengers or is this something reserved for vehicular traffic only?

 

[Snow1964]

If you go back to some of the very early stations, many of the centre roads were linked by small turntables, these could handle the original 4 wheel wagons and carriages. Some of the shunting was by winch or with horses.

Back in 1840s trains were often only every 2 or 3 hours so plenty of time to move them between services.

Even Kings Cross was originally built with an arrivals platform and a departure platform (now 1 and 8) and some of the arches (nowadays between platforms 4&5) had transverse tracks through them.

4&5 were not the next platforms built, it was 2&3 and was originally called excursion platform (before any platforms got numbers), which reflects how usage grew.

 

[edwin_m]

Another modern variation is the layout for loading and unloading vehicles from Le Shuttle, with an arrivals (unloading) ramp at one end of the "platform" and a departure (loading ramp at the other). So one platform switches from arrival to departure without any conflict of passenger movement. Meanwhile the use of balloon loops avoids the need for running round to reverse the direction of travel. Has this strict directional ro-ro flow to segregate arrivals and departures at a rail terminal ever been used successfully for foot passengers or is this something reserved for vehicular traffic only?

Eurostar sort of does the passenger flow part at St Pancras and Gare du Nord. As mentioned some Metro termini have balloon loops, with separate arrival and departure platforms. Kennington before the extension to Battersea Power Station was the only recent UK example of this, although what is now Embankment on what is now the Northern Line did this when first opened.

 

[Fenchurch SP]

Doesn't the DLR do something similar to Waterloo W&C at its station at Bank, using a turn-back siding?

Also slightly different at Tower Gateway there is one line with a departures platform one side and arrivals the other so the doors open on both sides.