Situation at CAF Newport (197s/export work/897s)

[tfw756rider]

Does anyone in here know what the situation at CAF Newport is? To my knowledge, the "last" three 197s (197039/040/041) still haven't come out, and I haven't heard anything about them moving onto the eight 897s they'll assemble in addition to the two in Spain, or any work to "keep the factory open" after these 11 units (86 vehicles) have come out.

Also, I find it a bit odd that, despite the 897s having been ordered in November 2023, nearly two years later in September 2025 there has still (to my knowledge) been no mention of such things as manufacturer and type/power/quantity of diesel engines, manufacturer of electric traction motors/equipment and batteries, or even top speed in the different modes.

 

[D365]

Also, I find it a bit odd that, despite the 897s having been ordered in November 2023, nearly two years later in September 2025 there has still (to my knowledge) been no mention of such things as manufacturer and type/power/quantity of diesel engines, manufacturer of electric traction motors/equipment and batteries, or even top speed in the different modes.

Because there’s no need for these details to be broadcast in the public domain just yet?

 

[tfw756rider]

Because there’s no need for these details to be broadcast in the public domain just yet?

OK, but surely not much longer to wait.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Sep 2025 ==

Since my original post, it has been reported in the 197 thread that 197039 has left the factory and moved to Donnington.

So just two more 197s to leave the factory (197040+197041), meaning 10 overall units (two 197s and eight 897s) to come out, totalling 84 vehicles.

Surely the factory will need to get another order from "someone" to keep going after the 897s?

 

[800001]

Does anyone in here know what the situation at CAF Newport is? To my knowledge, the "last" three 197s (197039/040/041) still haven't come out, and I haven't heard anything about them moving onto the eight 897s they'll assemble in addition to the two in Spain, or any work to "keep the factory open" after these 11 units (86 vehicles) have come out.

Also, I find it a bit odd that, despite the 897s having been ordered in November 2023, nearly two years later in September 2025 there has still (to my knowledge) been no mention of such things as manufacturer and type/power/quantity of diesel engines, manufacturer of electric traction motors/equipment and batteries, or even top speed in the different modes.

I don't actually think building of the 2 x 897s I'm Spain has even started yet?

Last I heard form sources in LNER, was that this project is running very very late, last I saw was wooden mock ups (that was a year ago), unsure what the latest with the project is.

 

[Crithylum]

They are currently building assembling trams for Israel. 897s are still a long way away from production.

 

[800001]

They are currently building assembling trams for Israel. 897s are still a long way away from production.

Yet due into service 2027? Or is it 2028?
And that's when Mk4 need to be gone.

 

[TheWalrus]

Yet due into service 2027? Or is it 2028?
And that's when Mk4 need to be gone.

What would be the solution? More Hitachi bi-modes/electric/battery 80Xs and cascade some existing 80Xs from current operators to LNER?

Personally I don’t like CAF stock generally, would MUCH prefer Stadler Flirts to become more prominent across the UK.

 

[Crithylum]

Yet due into service 2027? Or is it 2028?
And that's when Mk4 need to be gone.

When I visited the assembly plant a few months ago, this is what I was told. The vibe I was getting was that it wouldn’t start until at least 2026 (although I wasn’t told any specific timeframe). Also bear in mind that body shell manufacture must start a while before they arrive in Newport for assembly.

 

[800001]

What would be the solution? More Hitachi bi-modes/electric/battery 80Xs and cascade some existing 80Xs from current operators to LNER?

Personally I don’t like CAF stock generally, would MUCH prefer Stadler Flirts to become more prominent across the UK.

No. As it would need to place another order which would not be finically viable.

 

[3RDGEN]

It was reported that one of the suppliers had their factory flooded last Autumn which has put the 897's project back significantly.

 

[TheWalrus]

No. As it would need to place another order which would not be finically viable.

So what if the 91+Mk4s can’t go beyond 2028? Will the resignalling be delayed to allow them to continue in service? Otherwise LNER is going to struggle with enough trains! Or maybe bring back the remaining 180s to cover

 

[D365]

So what if the 91+Mk4s can’t go beyond 2028? Will the resignalling be delayed to allow them to continue in service?

I don’t have sight of the latest ECDP (East Coast Digital Programme) timelines. But ECML ’lights away’ is known to already be delayed past 2028.

In other words, rolling stock is not yet the critical link.

 

[800001]

I don’t have sight of the latest ECDP (East Coast Digital Programme) timelines. But ECML ’lights away’ is known to already delayed past 2028.

In other words, rolling stock is not yet the critical link.

That delay may come in very handy then.

 

[Mollman]

So what if the 91+Mk4s can’t go beyond 2028? Will the resignalling be delayed to allow them to continue in service? Otherwise LNER is going to struggle with enough trains! Or maybe bring back the remaining 180s to cover

Or replace the 91s with 93s, but this is probably going off topic.

 

[Class15]

Or replace the 91s with 93s, but this is probably going off topic.

93s aren’t fast enough and will lose time

 

[wickham]

OK, but surely not much longer to wait.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Sep 2025 ==

Since my original post, it has been reported in the 197 thread that 197039 has left the factory and moved to Donnington.

So just two more 197s to leave the factory (197040+197041), meaning 10 overall units (two 197s and eight 897s) to come out, totalling 84 vehicles.

Surely the factory will need to get another order from "someone" to keep going after the 897s?

Has anyone ever wondered (like me) why the CAF factory at Newport is not rail connected ? Everything has to be delivered by road and of course everything comes in by road. I have personally wondered right from the start if they are really concerned about the long term future of the site. They got a Government Grant to set up in the first place, so using it just for a few current jobs just while the investment money was rolling into the railway may have been their plan all along.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Has anyone ever wondered (like me) why the CAF factory at Newport is not rail connected ?

Wasn't it something about utilities blocking them from being able to make the connection?
Found quote:

I thought it was revealed recently that there's a gas main under where the link would have to go, so isn't possible? Plus the fact that the steelworks don't want to give other operators track access.

 

[Crithylum]

Most of the stuff being built now is being exported. I've been told that they are looking to have it done by the time the 897s are ready (which is not imminent)

 

[tfw756rider]

Thanks for the replies all.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Sep 2025 ==

They are currently building assembling trams for Israel. 897s are still a long way away from production.

Trams or trains? I've seen them called both. Either way, I had no idea, and I didn't realise until today (15/9/25) that there was a protest at the factory in June 2025 by people who believe that they're for a quote-on-quote "illegal" railway, but for some reason, it didn't cause the factory's making of them to end, so now the world will instead.

Does anyone in here know:

1. the exact total quantity of units (and/or vehicles) CAF Newport is building for Israel?
2. of any photos (or at least artist's impressions) of these units?
3. when CAF Newport started building these units?
4. how many of these units CAF Newport have built so far?

Also, @Crithylum, where did you find out that CAF Newport is building units for Israel? For some reason, I can't find any articles about it from any railway-related online publications - why would this be? When I search for it on Google, only the political/protest stuff comes up.

It was reported that one of the suppliers had their factory flooded last Autumn which has put the 897's project back significantly.

Thanks for this specifically. That's unfortunate - do you know which supplier it was?

 

[Crithylum]

Thanks for the replies all.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Sep 2025 ==


Trams or trains? I've seen them called both. Either way, I had no idea, and I didn't realise until today (15/9/25) that there was a protest at the factory in June 2025 by people who believe that they're for a quote-on-quote "illegal" railway, but for some reason, it didn't cause the factory's making of them to end, so now the world will instead.

Does anyone in here know:

1. the exact total quantity of units (and/or vehicles) CAF Newport is building for Israel?
2. of any photos (or at least artist's impressions) of these units?
3. when CAF Newport started building these units?
4. how many of these units CAF Newport have built so far?

Also, @Crithylum, where did you find out that CAF Newport is building units for Israel? For some reason, I can't find any articles about it from any railway-related online publications - why would this be? When I search for it on Google, only the political/protest stuff comes up.


Thanks for this specifically. That's unfortunate - do you know which supplier it was?

1. The number I think they said was approximately 50 to 70
2. I don’t have any photos, but they looked very similar to other Urbos trams
3. They had some basically fully assembled when I visited in late March
4. No idea

I saw them assembling these trams in the factory. They are assembling them in Newport to avoid shutting down the factory, as there isn’t anything else between the 197 and 897

CAF Group wins Tel Aviv tram Purple Line project | CAF

NTA (Metropolitan Mass Transit Systems) has chosen the transport consortium made up of the CAF Group and the construction firm Shapir for the Tel Aviv LRV Purple Line.

www.cafmobility.com

 

[3RDGEN]

Thanks for this specifically. That's unfortunate - do you know which supplier it was?

It just said a supply chain factory in Europe with delay unknown but LNER are still saying 2028 for entry to service.

 

[wickham]

1. The number I think they said was approximately 50 to 70
2. I don’t have any photos, but they looked very similar to other Urbos trams
3. They had some basically fully assembled when I visited in late March
4. No idea

I saw them assembling these trams in the factory. They are assembling them in Newport to avoid shutting down the factory, as there isn’t anything else between the 197 and 897

CAF Group wins Tel Aviv tram Purple Line project | CAF

NTA (Metropolitan Mass Transit Systems) has chosen the transport consortium made up of the CAF Group and the construction firm Shapir for the Tel Aviv LRV Purple Line.

www.cafmobility.com

The link to the announcement is very interesting, so the order is for 98 x 5 section trams, but that is not to say that they will ALL be completed at Newport. Surely bringing the body shells to the UK (presumably they are constructed elsewhere in Europe) and then exporting the finished trams will have increased their costs and one wonders what route they have taken. I have seen no reports of any trams being seen on road transport, but that does not mean there haven't been any.

 

[800001]

The link to the announcement is very interesting, so the order is for 98 x 5 section trams, but that is not to say that they will ALL be completed at Newport. Surely bringing the body shells to the UK (presumably they are constructed elsewhere in Europe) and then exporting the finished trams will have increased their costs and one wonders what route they have taken. I have seen no reports of any trams being seen on road transport, but that does not mean there haven't been any.

Sounds similar to Hitachi, shipping and then reading the Milan Metros to Newton Aycliffe to have the internals fitted into the shell, then road and shipped back.

 

[Mollman]

The link to the announcement is very interesting, so the order is for 98 x 5 section trams, but that is not to say that they will ALL be completed at Newport. Surely bringing the body shells to the UK (presumably they are constructed elsewhere in Europe) and then exporting the finished trams will have increased their costs and one wonders what route they have taken. I have seen no reports of any trams being seen on road transport, but that does not mean there haven't been any.

Perhaps it is cheaper than the penalty for late delivery if there is no capacity elsewhere to do the work.

 

[tfw756rider]

1. The number I think they said was approximately 50 to 70
2. I don’t have any photos, but they looked very similar to other Urbos trams
3. They had some basically fully assembled when I visited in late March
4. No idea

I saw them assembling these trams in the factory. They are assembling them in Newport to avoid shutting down the factory, as there isn’t anything else between the 197 and 897

CAF Group wins Tel Aviv tram Purple Line project | CAF

NTA (Metropolitan Mass Transit Systems) has chosen the transport consortium made up of the CAF Group and the construction firm Shapir for the Tel Aviv LRV Purple Line.

www.cafmobility.com

It just said a supply chain factory in Europe with delay unknown but LNER are still saying 2028 for entry to service.

Many thanks both.

@Crithylum, thanks for the link to the article, but being from 2022, it unfortunately doesn't mention anything about the Newport / Wales / UK factory assembling them. Do you (or anyone else) know of any relevant articles (from 2025) that do mention it? I trust that you saw the trams being assembled there, but something seems off that an article with any mention of it can't easily be found.

Also, did you find out anything related to 197s during your visit? Were the "last" few (197039/040/041) still actually being assembled (I know 039 has since left), or were they basically finished but just small bits keeping them there?

 

[87electric]

There were plenty of industry magazines/websites that announced the Tel Aviv contract for CAF in 2022/2023. What I might suggest is that Newport assembly might be sensitively quiet due to the political climate. Why attract undue attention in these difficult times? Anyway, business is business and usually goes under the radar of the general public.

 

[Crithylum]

Many thanks both.

@Crithylum, thanks for the link to the article, but being from 2022, it unfortunately doesn't mention anything about the Newport / Wales / UK factory assembling them. Do you (or anyone else) know of any relevant articles (from 2025) that do mention it? I trust that you saw the trams being assembled there, but something seems off that an article with any mention of it can't easily be found.

Also, did you find out anything related to 197s during your visit? Were the "last" few (197039/040/041) still actually being assembled (I know 039 has since left), or were they basically finished but just small bits keeping them there?

I didn’t look at the unit numbers, and I don’t remember too much now, but they seemed mostly complete. Also 2 of the 3 production lines had switched at that point to trams.

 

[tfw756rider]

I didn’t look at the unit numbers, and I don’t remember too much now, but they seemed mostly complete. Also 2 of the 3 production lines had switched at that point to trams.

Many thanks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2025 ==

What I might suggest is that Newport assembly (of the Tel Aviv trams) might be sensitively quiet due to the political climate. Why attract undue attention in these difficult times? Anyway, business is business and usually goes under the radar of the general public.

Yeah, it's just a shame that there's absolutely no article that can be used as a reference/source for things that need them, so as far as those are concerned it's like it's not happening even though it is. I do have an idea to solve that, but I'll deal with that myself.

 

[Snow1964]

Whilst I am not sure if CAF at Newport has any involvement in the proposed Belgium order, but worth noting that Belgium Council of State has just dismissed the appeal by Siemens that was blocking the award

The Council of State has dismissed an appeal by Siemens and rejected a request from NGOs, clearing the way for Belgian state railway NMBS / SNCB to move forward with its plans to order hundreds of new trainsets from Spanish manufacturer CAF. A ruling on a parallel case brought by French rival Alstom is still pending.

On Friday, the Dutch-speaking chamber of Belgium’s highest administrative court ruled that NMBS / SNCB had acted properly in designating Construcciones y Auxiliar de Ferrocarriles (CAF), from the Basque Country in Spain, as preferred bidder for the supply of new MR30 / AM30 passenger trains. Siemens, from Germany, which had lost out on the contract, had contested the decision, but the Council found no evidence of procedural irregularities.

The framework agreement covers a minimum of 180 and up to 600 trainsets, worth between €1.7 and €3.4 billion. It represents what Belgian media have called the “order of the century,” with huge implications for the railway’s long-term fleet renewal and for industrial jobs in Belgium.

Of course there could be an indirect effect, if another CAF factory (eg Beasain, Spain) is busy with an order for Belgium, another order might be put together at Newport

BELGIUM | Council of State backs NMBS / SNCB’s choice of Spanish CAF for multi-billion train order

The Council of State has dismissed an appeal by Siemens and rejected a request from NGOs, clearing the way for Belgian state railway NMBS / SNCB to move forward with its plans to order hundreds of …

tripbytrip.org

 

[Chris172]

Aren't Northern looking for new units to replace the sprinters (not all?) surely they go for more 195/331 or go for a 196/197 or a 331 with a walk through variant?