Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[FlybeDash8Q400]

193 appears to have finally settled in after not managing a full day in service for months on end. The suggestion that the three Enviros could be replaced by 195 and 196 IMO is a bad one as we really need five buses available for the Eve's local routes. Remember one B7 is technically allocated to the X7 each day.
If only there were six short wheelbase single decks sitting gathering dust somewhere...

If I’ve got my numbers right, it’s 16 single deckers out at a time. An allocation of 20 would still be decent. Certainly, it’s consistent with the 1 for every 5 theory I was talking about. The way I see it, is that 195-196 replace 191-192, while 193 isn’t replaced, due to the very thing you’ve just been talking about!

Worst case scenario is that a decker goes on the X5, something that happens a lot anyway.

I’m hoping it will be easier if the 106 is expanded to run this new route all day, with the X7 moved completely to Dunbar. One for the next changes…

 

[stevenedin]

503 is now at East Coast Buses.

 

[ScotRail158725]

If I’ve got my numbers right, it’s 16 single deckers out at a time. An allocation of 20 would still be decent. Certainly, it’s consistent with the 1 for every 5 theory I was talking about. The way I see it, is that 195-196 replace 191-192, while 193 isn’t replaced, due to the very thing you’ve just been talking about!

Worst case scenario is that a decker goes on the X5, something that happens a lot anyway.

I’m hoping it will be easier if the 106 is expanded to run this new route all day, with the X7 moved completely to Dunbar. One for the next changes…

are 195 and 196 meant to be returning east? Are there any other vehicles moving depots with these changes or are all the moves done

 

[Bus9120UK]

are 195 and 196 meant to be returning east? Are there any other vehicles moving depots with these changes or are all the moves done

4 and 5 have been parked at Newbridge.
More BZL deliveries will allow further movement.

 

[computerSaysNo]

I've written up a "quick" summary of route changes and allocations as far as I can see currently on the Lothian Vehicle Finder. I'll spoiler each section otherwise it's quite long.

Spoiler: Lothian (day)

Lothian (day)

1 – was every 12 mins with 7900H (single deckers), now every 15 minutes with Volvo BZL (double deckers).

2 – moved from Central to Longstone. No other major change. Uses 7900H.

3 – no major change. No longer stopping at West Maitland Street (N3 still stopping). Uses B5TL/E400MMC.

4 – no major change. No longer stopping at West Maitland Street. Uses ex-London B9TL/Gemini 2.

5 – was every 20 mins, now every 15 mins. Allocation unchanged but diagrams adjusted in preparation for BZL. Currently uses ex-London B9TL/Gemini 2.

7 – no major changes. Uses BZL.

8 – no change. Uses BZL.

9 – no major changes. Uses BZL.

10 – no change. Uses BZL and BYD/E400EV.

11 – no major changes. Uses B8L/E400MMC-XLB.

12 – no major changes. Uses 7900H.

14 – no major changes. Uses BZL.

15 – no major changes; some adjustment of individual journeys. Looks to use any double decker.

16 – no major changes. Uses B8L/E400MMC-XLB.

17 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/E400MMC.

18 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/E400MMC.

19 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 (classic front/2014 batch).

20 – no change. Uses a single 7900H.

21 – no change. Uses ex-London B9TL/Gemini2, native B9TL/Gemini 2, B5TL/Gemini 3 (some classic front/2014, some Zoo/2017).

22 – no major changes. Looks to use any Longstone double-decker.

23 – no change. Uses BZL.

24 – no major changes; slight route change in Granton due to construction works; terminus moved to Granton Square. Uses BZL and BYD/E400EV.

25 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/E400MMC.

26 – no major changes. No longer stopping at West Maitland Street. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 (Zoo/2017 batch).

27 – no major changes. Uses native B9TL/Gemini 2.

29 – no major changes. Uses native B9TL/Gemini 2.

30 – no major changes. Uses B8RLE/Evora.

31 – no major changes; more journeys to/from Polton Mill in the evenings. No longer stopping at West Maitland Street (N31 still stopping). Uses B8L/E400MMC-XLB, and native B9TL/Gemini 2.

32 – no major changes; revised route/loop in Cramond. Uses two 7900H.

33 – no major changes. No longer stopping at West Maitland Street. Uses ex-London B9TL/Gemini2 and native B9TL/Gemini 2.

34 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2015 batch.

35 – Sunday frequency increased from every 30 mins to every 20 mins. Uses B5LH/Gemini 2 from the 2015 batch, and B5TL/E400MMC.

36 – moved from Longstone to Central. Uses 7900H.

37 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/E400MMC.

X37 - no major changes; Straiton P&R no longer served.

38 – no major changes; slight route change in Granton due to construction works; terminus moved to Granton Square. Uses B8RLE/Evora.

44 – no major changes. No longer stopping at West Maitland Street (N44 still stopping). Uses B5LH/Gemini 3 from the 2015 batch, and B5TL/E400MMC.

45 – no major changes; Sunday service introduced between Heriot-Watt and Bristo Square every 30 mins. Allocation Monday to Saturday; Sunday is BZL. Looks to use any Marine double-decker.

46 – no change. Uses B7RLE/Urban 2 from the 2012 and 2013 batches.

47/B – no major changes; 47B no longer serving Straiton P&R. Uses B8L/E400MMC-XLB.

48 – no change. Uses B7RLE/Urban 2 from the 2013 batch.

49 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/E400MMC.

100 – no change. Uses dedicated B8L/E400MMC-XLB buses.

Spoiler: Nightbus

Nightbus

N1, N22, N26 – new service N1 introduced operating one-way loop Leith Street then as per 1 route to Clermiston then Clerwood then Corstorphine Road then as per 26 route to Leith Street. N22 withdrawn. N26 west of City Centre withdrawn.

N3 – no major changes.

N11 – no major changes.

N14 – no change.

N16 – no change.

N18 – no change.

N25 – no major changes.

N26 – Clerwood to City withdrawn. City to Seton Sands revised timetable.

N28 – no major changes.

N30 – Route change in Musselburgh; timetable change.

N31 – timetable change.

N35 – timetable change.

N37 – no change.

N43 – no major changes.

N44 – no major changes.

N107 – no major changes.

N113 – no major changes.

N124 – no major changes.

Spoiler: Lothian Country

Lothian Country

X18 – no major changes. Uses ex-London B9TL/Gemini 2.

X19 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2016 batch.

X27/X28 – no major changes. Reduced number of stops in Sighthill. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2016 batch.

X40 – no major changes. Vehicle requirement increased from three to four by running buses back to depot after terminating at St John’s Hospital. Uses four ex-London B9TL/Gemini 2.

43 – no major changes. Uses B5LH/Gemini 3 from the 2017 batch.

71 – no major changes. Uses B5LH/Gemini 3 from the 2017 batch.

72 – Kirkliston to Winchburgh withdrawn. Frequency increases from every 60 mins to every 40 mins. Uses B5LH/Gemini 3 from the 2017 batch.

73 – now runs Armadale – Bathgate – Deans South – Eliburn Road – Livingston Village – Livingston Centre. Runs every 60 mins. Uses ex-London B9TL/Gemini 2.

74 – now runs Blackburn – Wester Inch – Bathgate – Deans South – Alderstone Road – Livingston Centre – West Calder – Loganlea – Addiewell – Fauldhouse. Runs every 60 mins. Looks to use any Livingston double-decker.

Spoiler: East Coast Buses

East Coast Buses

X4 – no major changes. Improved morning timetable. Uses mostly B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2017 and 2018 batches.

X5 – no major changes. Uses B8RLE/Urban 3.

X6 – no major changes. Additional morning service to Edinburgh. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2017 and 2018 batches.

X7 – no major changes. Uses B7RLE/Urban 2 from the 2012 batch, and B8RLE/Urban 3.

106 – daytime Monday to Saturday journeys now run Western General – Princes Street – Meadowbank – limited stop to Fort Kinnaird West – Fort Kinnaird then current route to Haddington. Route now serves Wallyford The Loan. Looks to use any Musselburgh double-decker.

107 – no major changes. Route now serves Wallyford The Loan. Uses buses to and from the X7.

113 – no major changes. Uses mostly B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2017 and 2018 batches.

120 – no change. Uses B7RLE/Urban 2 from the 2012 batch, and B8RLE/Urban 3.

121 – no major changes. Uses Eve Buses E200MMC.

123 – one additional small loop journey. Timetable revision. Uses Eve Buses E200MMC.

124 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2017 and 2018 batches.

Spoiler: Vehicle group notes – Lothian Buses

Vehicle group notes – Lothian Buses

7900H – Volvo 7900H. Delivered in three batches in 2013 and 2014 but treated as one group.

B7RLE/Urban 2 – 2012 batch originally for East Lothian services; some now in service with Lothian (City). 2013 batch all native to Lothian (City).

B8RLE/Urban – all from one batch new in 2017.

B8RLE/Evora – all from one batch new in 2020.

Ex-London B9TL/Gemini 2 – new to First London in 2011; bought by Lothian Buses, entered service with Lothian (City) and Lothian Country.

Native B9TL/Gemini 2 – most of 2009 batch withdrawn. All remaining were from one batch new in 2011.

B5TL/Gemini 3 – one batch new in 2014 which had the “classic” Gemini front. Additional batch in 2015 for Airlink, was then transferred to Skylink, is now in use with Lothian (City). Additional batch in 2016 for Lothian City, now mostly transferred to Lothian Country. Additional batch in 2017, some for Lothian (City) with Edinburgh Zoo branding which are still in use on service 26; some for Airlink, then transferred to Skylink, now mostly transferred to East Coast Buses. Additional batch in 2018 for Lothian (City), now transferred to East Coast Buses.

B5LH/Gemini 3 – hybrid vehicles. One batch new in 2015. Additional batch in 2017 for Skylink; was then transferred to Lothian (City), then Lothian Country.

B8L/E400MMC-XLB – one batch new in 2019.

BYD/E400EV – four vehicles in a special livery all new in 2020.

B5TL/E400 – one batch new in 2020 and 2021.

BZL – Volvo electric double deckers new in 2024 and 2025.

Spoiler: Vehicle group notes – Lothian Country

Vehicle group notes – Lothian Country

B9TL/Gemini 2 – some ex-London vehicles; see above. Limited number of native vehicles from the 2009 batch, new to Lothian (City) then transferred to Lothian Country. Additional batch new to Airlink in 2010; then transferred to East Coast Buses; limited number of vehicles then transferred to Lothian Country.

B5TL/Gemini 3 – batch new to Lothian (City) in 2016; most now transferred to Lothian Country.

B5LH/Gemini 3 – batch new to Skylink in 2017; then transferred to Lothian (City); now transferred to Lothian Country.

Spoiler: Vehicle group notes – East Coast Buses

Vehicle group notes – East Coast Buses

B7RLE/Urban 2 – small number of vehicles new in 2012; some currently with East Coast Buses.

B8RLE/Urban 3 – one batch of vehicles new in 2017 for then-new East Coast Buses services using the A1 dual-carriageway.

B9TL/Gemini 2 – new to Airlink in 2012, was then transferred to East Coast Buses; small number then transferred to Lothian Country. Vehicles remaining with East Coast are split between any Musselburgh double-decker route.

B5TL/Gemini 3 – one batch new to Lothian (City) in 2018, now transferred to East Coast Buses. Further batch new to Skylink in 2017, now mostly transferred to East Coast Buses.

Eve Buses E200MMC – buses bought by Eve Coaches for the rural routes in East Lothian. Short-wheelbase, Allison 5-speed gearboxes. 4-cylinder/4.5L engines.

 

[ScotRail158725]

4 and 5 have been parked at Newbridge.
More BZL deliveries will allow further movement.

Whats expected to be replaced by the rest of the BZLs? 30 more new buses so how many are expected to leave the fleet

 

[Bedford OB]

I've written up a "quick" summary of route changes and allocations as far as I can see currently on the Lothian Vehicle Finder. I'll spoiler each section otherwise it's quite long.

Spoiler: Lothian (day)

Lothian (day)

1 – was every 12 mins with 7900H (single deckers), now every 15 minutes with Volvo BZL (double deckers).

2 – moved from Central to Longstone. No other major change. Uses 7900H.

3 – no major change. No longer stopping at West Maitland Street (N3 still stopping). Uses B5TL/E400MMC.

4 – no major change. No longer stopping at West Maitland Street. Uses ex-London B9TL/Gemini 2.

5 – was every 20 mins, now every 15 mins. Allocation unchanged but diagrams adjusted in preparation for BZL. Currently uses ex-London B9TL/Gemini 2.

7 – no major changes. Uses BZL.

8 – no change. Uses BZL.

9 – no major changes. Uses BZL.

10 – no change. Uses BZL and BYD/E400EV.

11 – no major changes. Uses B8L/E400MMC-XLB.

12 – no major changes. Uses 7900H.

14 – no major changes. Uses BZL.

15 – no major changes; some adjustment of individual journeys. Looks to use any double decker.

16 – no major changes. Uses B8L/E400MMC-XLB.

17 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/E400MMC.

18 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/E400MMC.

19 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 (classic front/2014 batch).

20 – no change. Uses a single 7900H.

21 – no change. Uses ex-London B9TL/Gemini2, native B9TL/Gemini 2, B5TL/Gemini 3 (some classic front/2014, some Zoo/2017).

22 – no major changes. Looks to use any Longstone double-decker.

23 – no change. Uses BZL.

24 – no major changes; slight route change in Granton due to construction works; terminus moved to Granton Square. Uses BZL and BYD/E400EV.

25 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/E400MMC.

26 – no major changes. No longer stopping at West Maitland Street. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 (Zoo/2017 batch).

27 – no major changes. Uses native B9TL/Gemini 2.

29 – no major changes. Uses native B9TL/Gemini 2.

30 – no major changes. Uses B8RLE/Evora.

31 – no major changes; more journeys to/from Polton Mill in the evenings. No longer stopping at West Maitland Street (N31 still stopping). Uses B8L/E400MMC-XLB, and native B9TL/Gemini 2.

32 – no major changes; revised route/loop in Cramond. Uses two 7900H.

33 – no major changes. No longer stopping at West Maitland Street. Uses ex-London B9TL/Gemini2 and native B9TL/Gemini 2.

34 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2015 batch.

35 – Sunday frequency increased from every 30 mins to every 20 mins. Uses B5LH/Gemini 2 from the 2015 batch, and B5TL/E400MMC.

36 – moved from Longstone to Central. Uses 7900H.

37 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/E400MMC.

X37 - no major changes; Straiton P&R no longer served.

38 – no major changes; slight route change in Granton due to construction works; terminus moved to Granton Square. Uses B8RLE/Evora.

44 – no major changes. No longer stopping at West Maitland Street (N44 still stopping). Uses B5LH/Gemini 3 from the 2015 batch, and B5TL/E400MMC.

45 – no major changes; Sunday service introduced between Heriot-Watt and Bristo Square every 30 mins. Allocation Monday to Saturday; Sunday is BZL. Looks to use any Marine double-decker.

46 – no change. Uses B7RLE/Urban 2 from the 2012 and 2013 batches.

47/B – no major changes; 47B no longer serving Straiton P&R. Uses B8L/E400MMC-XLB.

48 – no change. Uses B7RLE/Urban 2 from the 2013 batch.

49 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/E400MMC.

100 – no change. Uses dedicated B8L/E400MMC-XLB buses.

Spoiler: Nightbus

Nightbus

N1, N22, N26 – new service N1 introduced operating one-way loop Leith Street then as per 1 route to Clermiston then Clerwood then Corstorphine Road then as per 26 route to Leith Street. N22 withdrawn. N26 west of City Centre withdrawn.

N3 – no major changes.

N11 – no major changes.

N14 – no change.

N16 – no change.

N18 – no change.

N25 – no major changes.

N26 – Clerwood to City withdrawn. City to Seton Sands revised timetable.

N28 – no major changes.

N30 – Route change in Musselburgh; timetable change.

N31 – timetable change.

N35 – timetable change.

N37 – no change.

N43 – no major changes.

N44 – no major changes.

N107 – no major changes.

N113 – no major changes.

N124 – no major changes.

Spoiler: Lothian Country

Lothian Country

X18 – no major changes. Uses ex-London B9TL/Gemini 2.

X19 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2016 batch.

X27/X28 – no major changes. Reduced number of stops in Sighthill. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2016 batch.

X40 – no major changes. Vehicle requirement increased from three to four by running buses back to depot after terminating at St John’s Hospital. Uses four ex-London B9TL/Gemini 2.

43 – no major changes. Uses B5LH/Gemini 3 from the 2017 batch.

71 – no major changes. Uses B5LH/Gemini 3 from the 2017 batch.

72 – Kirkliston to Winchburgh withdrawn. Frequency increases from every 60 mins to every 40 mins. Uses B5LH/Gemini 3 from the 2017 batch.

73 – now runs Armadale – Bathgate – Deans South – Eliburn Road – Livingston Village – Livingston Centre. Runs every 60 mins. Uses ex-London B9TL/Gemini 2.

74 – now runs Blackburn – Wester Inch – Bathgate – Deans South – Alderstone Road – Livingston Centre – West Calder – Loganlea – Addiewell – Fauldhouse. Runs every 60 mins. Looks to use any Livingston double-decker.

Spoiler: East Coast Buses

East Coast Buses

X4 – no major changes. Improved morning timetable. Uses mostly B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2017 and 2018 batches.

X5 – no major changes. Uses B8RLE/Urban 3.

X6 – no major changes. Additional morning service to Edinburgh. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2017 and 2018 batches.

X7 – no major changes. Uses B7RLE/Urban 2 from the 2012 batch, and B8RLE/Urban 3.

106 – daytime Monday to Saturday journeys now run Western General – Princes Street – Meadowbank – limited stop to Fort Kinnaird West – Fort Kinnaird then current route to Haddington. Route now serves Wallyford The Loan. Looks to use any Musselburgh double-decker.

107 – no major changes. Route now serves Wallyford The Loan. Uses buses to and from the X7.

113 – no major changes. Uses mostly B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2017 and 2018 batches.

120 – no change. Uses B7RLE/Urban 2 from the 2012 batch, and B8RLE/Urban 3.

121 – no major changes. Uses Eve Buses E200MMC.

123 – one additional small loop journey. Timetable revision. Uses Eve Buses E200MMC.

124 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2017 and 2018 batches.

Spoiler: Vehicle group notes – Lothian Buses

Vehicle group notes – Lothian Buses

7900H – Volvo 7900H. Delivered in three batches in 2013 and 2014 but treated as one group.

B7RLE/Urban 2 – 2012 batch originally for East Lothian services; some now in service with Lothian (City). 2013 batch all native to Lothian (City).

B8RLE/Urban – all from one batch new in 2017.

B8RLE/Evora – all from one batch new in 2020.

Ex-London B9TL/Gemini 2 – new to First London in 2011; bought by Lothian Buses, entered service with Lothian (City) and Lothian Country.

Native B9TL/Gemini 2 – most of 2009 batch withdrawn. All remaining were from one batch new in 2011.

B5TL/Gemini 3 – one batch new in 2014 which had the “classic” Gemini front. Additional batch in 2015 for Airlink, was then transferred to Skylink, is now in use with Lothian (City). Additional batch in 2016 for Lothian City, now mostly transferred to Lothian Country. Additional batch in 2017, some for Lothian (City) with Edinburgh Zoo branding which are still in use on service 26; some for Airlink, then transferred to Skylink, now mostly transferred to East Coast Buses. Additional batch in 2018 for Lothian (City), now transferred to East Coast Buses.

B5LH/Gemini 3 – hybrid vehicles. One batch new in 2015. Additional batch in 2017 for Skylink; was then transferred to Lothian (City), then Lothian Country.

B8L/E400MMC-XLB – one batch new in 2019.

BYD/E400EV – four vehicles in a special livery all new in 2020.

B5TL/E400 – one batch new in 2020 and 2021.

BZL – Volvo electric double deckers new in 2024 and 2025.

Spoiler: Vehicle group notes – Lothian Country

Vehicle group notes – Lothian Country

B9TL/Gemini 2 – some ex-London vehicles; see above. Limited number of native vehicles from the 2009 batch, new to Lothian (City) then transferred to Lothian Country. Additional batch new to Airlink in 2010; then transferred to East Coast Buses; limited number of vehicles then transferred to Lothian Country.

B5TL/Gemini 3 – batch new to Lothian (City) in 2016; most now transferred to Lothian Country.

B5LH/Gemini 3 – batch new to Skylink in 2017; then transferred to Lothian (City); now transferred to Lothian Country.

Spoiler: Vehicle group notes – East Coast Buses

Vehicle group notes – East Coast Buses

B7RLE/Urban 2 – small number of vehicles new in 2012; some currently with East Coast Buses.

B8RLE/Urban 3 – one batch of vehicles new in 2017 for then-new East Coast Buses services using the A1 dual-carriageway.

B9TL/Gemini 2 – new to Airlink in 2012, was then transferred to East Coast Buses; small number then transferred to Lothian Country. Vehicles remaining with East Coast are split between any Musselburgh double-decker route.

B5TL/Gemini 3 – one batch new to Lothian (City) in 2018, now transferred to East Coast Buses. Further batch new to Skylink in 2017, now mostly transferred to East Coast Buses.

Eve Buses E200MMC – buses bought by Eve Coaches for the rural routes in East Lothian. Short-wheelbase, Allison 5-speed gearboxes. 4-cylinder/4.5L engines.

I've written up a "quick" summary of route changes and allocations as far as I can see currently on the Lothian Vehicle Finder. I'll spoiler each section otherwise it's quite long.

Spoiler: Lothian (day)

Lothian (day)

1 – was every 12 mins with 7900H (single deckers), now every 15 minutes with Volvo BZL (double deckers).

2 – moved from Central to Longstone. No other major change. Uses 7900H.

3 – no major change. No longer stopping at West Maitland Street (N3 still stopping). Uses B5TL/E400MMC.

4 – no major change. No longer stopping at West Maitland Street. Uses ex-London B9TL/Gemini 2.

5 – was every 20 mins, now every 15 mins. Allocation unchanged but diagrams adjusted in preparation for BZL. Currently uses ex-London B9TL/Gemini 2.

7 – no major changes. Uses BZL.

8 – no change. Uses BZL.

9 – no major changes. Uses BZL.

10 – no change. Uses BZL and BYD/E400EV.

11 – no major changes. Uses B8L/E400MMC-XLB.

12 – no major changes. Uses 7900H.

14 – no major changes. Uses BZL.

15 – no major changes; some adjustment of individual journeys. Looks to use any double decker.

16 – no major changes. Uses B8L/E400MMC-XLB.

17 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/E400MMC.

18 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/E400MMC.

19 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 (classic front/2014 batch).

20 – no change. Uses a single 7900H.

21 – no change. Uses ex-London B9TL/Gemini2, native B9TL/Gemini 2, B5TL/Gemini 3 (some classic front/2014, some Zoo/2017).

22 – no major changes. Looks to use any Longstone double-decker.

23 – no change. Uses BZL.

24 – no major changes; slight route change in Granton due to construction works; terminus moved to Granton Square. Uses BZL and BYD/E400EV.

25 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/E400MMC.

26 – no major changes. No longer stopping at West Maitland Street. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 (Zoo/2017 batch).

27 – no major changes. Uses native B9TL/Gemini 2.

29 – no major changes. Uses native B9TL/Gemini 2.

30 – no major changes. Uses B8RLE/Evora.

31 – no major changes; more journeys to/from Polton Mill in the evenings. No longer stopping at West Maitland Street (N31 still stopping). Uses B8L/E400MMC-XLB, and native B9TL/Gemini 2.

32 – no major changes; revised route/loop in Cramond. Uses two 7900H.

33 – no major changes. No longer stopping at West Maitland Street. Uses ex-London B9TL/Gemini2 and native B9TL/Gemini 2.

34 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2015 batch.

35 – Sunday frequency increased from every 30 mins to every 20 mins. Uses B5LH/Gemini 2 from the 2015 batch, and B5TL/E400MMC.

36 – moved from Longstone to Central. Uses 7900H.

37 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/E400MMC.

X37 - no major changes; Straiton P&R no longer served.

38 – no major changes; slight route change in Granton due to construction works; terminus moved to Granton Square. Uses B8RLE/Evora.

44 – no major changes. No longer stopping at West Maitland Street (N44 still stopping). Uses B5LH/Gemini 3 from the 2015 batch, and B5TL/E400MMC.

45 – no major changes; Sunday service introduced between Heriot-Watt and Bristo Square every 30 mins. Allocation Monday to Saturday; Sunday is BZL. Looks to use any Marine double-decker.

46 – no change. Uses B7RLE/Urban 2 from the 2012 and 2013 batches.

47/B – no major changes; 47B no longer serving Straiton P&R. Uses B8L/E400MMC-XLB.

48 – no change. Uses B7RLE/Urban 2 from the 2013 batch.

49 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/E400MMC.

100 – no change. Uses dedicated B8L/E400MMC-XLB buses.

Spoiler: Nightbus

Nightbus

N1, N22, N26 – new service N1 introduced operating one-way loop Leith Street then as per 1 route to Clermiston then Clerwood then Corstorphine Road then as per 26 route to Leith Street. N22 withdrawn. N26 west of City Centre withdrawn.

N3 – no major changes.

N11 – no major changes.

N14 – no change.

N16 – no change.

N18 – no change.

N25 – no major changes.

N26 – Clerwood to City withdrawn. City to Seton Sands revised timetable.

N28 – no major changes.

N30 – Route change in Musselburgh; timetable change.

N31 – timetable change.

N35 – timetable change.

N37 – no change.

N43 – no major changes.

N44 – no major changes.

N107 – no major changes.

N113 – no major changes.

N124 – no major changes.

Spoiler: Lothian Country

Lothian Country

X18 – no major changes. Uses ex-London B9TL/Gemini 2.

X19 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2016 batch.

X27/X28 – no major changes. Reduced number of stops in Sighthill. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2016 batch.

X40 – no major changes. Vehicle requirement increased from three to four by running buses back to depot after terminating at St John’s Hospital. Uses four ex-London B9TL/Gemini 2.

43 – no major changes. Uses B5LH/Gemini 3 from the 2017 batch.

71 – no major changes. Uses B5LH/Gemini 3 from the 2017 batch.

72 – Kirkliston to Winchburgh withdrawn. Frequency increases from every 60 mins to every 40 mins. Uses B5LH/Gemini 3 from the 2017 batch.

73 – now runs Armadale – Bathgate – Deans South – Eliburn Road – Livingston Village – Livingston Centre. Runs every 60 mins. Uses ex-London B9TL/Gemini 2.

74 – now runs Blackburn – Wester Inch – Bathgate – Deans South – Alderstone Road – Livingston Centre – West Calder – Loganlea – Addiewell – Fauldhouse. Runs every 60 mins. Looks to use any Livingston double-decker.

Spoiler: East Coast Buses

East Coast Buses

X4 – no major changes. Improved morning timetable. Uses mostly B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2017 and 2018 batches.

X5 – no major changes. Uses B8RLE/Urban 3.

X6 – no major changes. Additional morning service to Edinburgh. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2017 and 2018 batches.

X7 – no major changes. Uses B7RLE/Urban 2 from the 2012 batch, and B8RLE/Urban 3.

106 – daytime Monday to Saturday journeys now run Western General – Princes Street – Meadowbank – limited stop to Fort Kinnaird West – Fort Kinnaird then current route to Haddington. Route now serves Wallyford The Loan. Looks to use any Musselburgh double-decker.

107 – no major changes. Route now serves Wallyford The Loan. Uses buses to and from the X7.

113 – no major changes. Uses mostly B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2017 and 2018 batches.

120 – no change. Uses B7RLE/Urban 2 from the 2012 batch, and B8RLE/Urban 3.

121 – no major changes. Uses Eve Buses E200MMC.

123 – one additional small loop journey. Timetable revision. Uses Eve Buses E200MMC.

124 – no major changes. Uses B5TL/Gemini 3 from the 2017 and 2018 batches.

Spoiler: Vehicle group notes – Lothian Buses

Vehicle group notes – Lothian Buses

7900H – Volvo 7900H. Delivered in three batches in 2013 and 2014 but treated as one group.

B7RLE/Urban 2 – 2012 batch originally for East Lothian services; some now in service with Lothian (City). 2013 batch all native to Lothian (City).

B8RLE/Urban – all from one batch new in 2017.

B8RLE/Evora – all from one batch new in 2020.

Ex-London B9TL/Gemini 2 – new to First London in 2011; bought by Lothian Buses, entered service with Lothian (City) and Lothian Country.

Native B9TL/Gemini 2 – most of 2009 batch withdrawn. All remaining were from one batch new in 2011.

B5TL/Gemini 3 – one batch new in 2014 which had the “classic” Gemini front. Additional batch in 2015 for Airlink, was then transferred to Skylink, is now in use with Lothian (City). Additional batch in 2016 for Lothian City, now mostly transferred to Lothian Country. Additional batch in 2017, some for Lothian (City) with Edinburgh Zoo branding which are still in use on service 26; some for Airlink, then transferred to Skylink, now mostly transferred to East Coast Buses. Additional batch in 2018 for Lothian (City), now transferred to East Coast Buses.

B5LH/Gemini 3 – hybrid vehicles. One batch new in 2015. Additional batch in 2017 for Skylink; was then transferred to Lothian (City), then Lothian Country.

B8L/E400MMC-XLB – one batch new in 2019.

BYD/E400EV – four vehicles in a special livery all new in 2020.

B5TL/E400 – one batch new in 2020 and 2021.

BZL – Volvo electric double deckers new in 2024 and 2025.

Spoiler: Vehicle group notes – Lothian Country

Vehicle group notes – Lothian Country

B9TL/Gemini 2 – some ex-London vehicles; see above. Limited number of native vehicles from the 2009 batch, new to Lothian (City) then transferred to Lothian Country. Additional batch new to Airlink in 2010; then transferred to East Coast Buses; limited number of vehicles then transferred to Lothian Country.

B5TL/Gemini 3 – batch new to Lothian (City) in 2016; most now transferred to Lothian Country.

B5LH/Gemini 3 – batch new to Skylink in 2017; then transferred to Lothian (City); now transferred to Lothian Country.

Spoiler: Vehicle group notes – East Coast Buses

Vehicle group notes – East Coast Buses

B7RLE/Urban 2 – small number of vehicles new in 2012; some currently with East Coast Buses.

B8RLE/Urban 3 – one batch of vehicles new in 2017 for then-new East Coast Buses services using the A1 dual-carriageway.

B9TL/Gemini 2 – new to Airlink in 2012, was then transferred to East Coast Buses; small number then transferred to Lothian Country. Vehicles remaining with East Coast are split between any Musselburgh double-decker route.

B5TL/Gemini 3 – one batch new to Lothian (City) in 2018, now transferred to East Coast Buses. Further batch new to Skylink in 2017, now mostly transferred to East Coast Buses.

Eve Buses E200MMC – buses bought by Eve Coaches for the rural routes in East Lothian. Short-wheelbase, Allison 5-speed gearboxes. 4-cylinder/4.5L engines.

I'm pleased to see that for the mainstream services at least, you have not displayed the same carelessness as Lothian, who nowadays manage to infect every service change notification on their web site with errors and inconsistencies. This time round they start off by including every service, and if unchanged, say so - for example for 8 and 10, so people know where they stand. But by the time they got to the likes of 20, 46 and 48, they just completely omitted any reference to them, so people don't know where they are. Just about every network change or Christmas/New Year programme in recent times has featured issues like this. Their standard of information provision is not good enough; they clearly need somebody who can proof read.

 

[Bus9120UK]

I've written up a "quick" summary of route changes and allocations as far as I can see currently on the Lothian Vehicle Finder. I'll spoiler each section otherwise it's quite long.

I'm pleased to see that for the mainstream services at least, you have not displayed the same carelessness as Lothian, who nowadays manage to infect every service change notification on their web site with errors and inconsistencies. This time round they start off by including every service, and if unchanged, say so - for example for 8 and 10, so people know where they stand. But by the time they got to the likes of 20, 46 and 48, they just completely omitted any reference to them, so people don't know where they are. Just about every network change or Christmas/New Year programme in recent times has featured issues like this. Their standard of information provision is not good enough; they clearly need somebody who can proof read.

They also surprisingly miss out some changes. E.g a new journey on the X37 in the afternoon, new peak 27 from Lauriston Place to Hunter's Tryst, afternoon service on the 1 reduced to every 15 minutes, new early service on the X27 from Edinburgh to Bathgate, etc. Sometimes they get some wrong, "minor timetable changes" on the 14 despite the timetable being identical to the previous one. I had suggested that it may have been an error due to interworking altering the boards, but then the 8 which also has interworking is still marked as "no changes". The X19 was also marked as minor changes, despite a number of journeys being removed and altered.

 

[Resuwen]

Various Lothian fleet lists still show Wright Streetairs on the fleet albeit they haven’t been used for years.

Where are these vehicles physically now?

Should they be deleted from the list?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Various Lothian fleet lists still show Wright Streetairs on the fleet albeit they haven’t been used for years.

Where are these vehicles physically now?

Should they be deleted from the list?

They’re on bustimes as they’re still on Lothian’s books legally. Their own fleet list also shows them in this way.

We simply don’t know why they have left and what Wrightbus are doing with them; if anything at all.

Until something changes on that, they will not be removed from bustimes. I can’t speak for other lists, as I have no control over them.

 

[scosutsut]

Various Lothian fleet lists still show Wright Streetairs on the fleet albeit they haven’t been used for years.

Where are these vehicles physically now?

Should they be deleted from the list?

I seem to remember they are out at Newbridge at the coach depot.

 

[Busman757]

Someone is going around on the Facebook groups saying that 1-10 are for scrap.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Someone is going around on the Facebook groups saying that 1-10 are for scrap.

It might happen, but for now they’re being stored. 1-2 will carry on until availability of other vehicles is a bit higher. 40 returned from Volvo this morning, with 41 taking its place.

I’ve been insulted a few times by one of the guys who runs the main Facebook pages about Lothian, for no real reason, yet alone an acceptable one, so I’m always cautious with what I say about it. The irony of course is that it’s promoted by that same admin as a welcoming space, when really he does the exact opposite, albeit indirectly. What I do think is a sensible conclusion though is that a lot of speculation does crop up, many of which I find easy to conclude as made up/fiction. At least with this 1-10 rumour, there is some logic to it. Whether or not it is made up, that’s hard to prove either way.

I would suggest it’s more likely 1-10 would be raided for parts if they were to be scrapped. The 7900H was pretty rare in the UK - certainly in comparison to mainland Europe. So with Lothian being I think now the sole operator of the type left, it would make sense to recycle parts that are no doubt becoming rarer.

A handful of 7900E’s remain with a few operators. Transdev’s ones have recently been listed for sale, with as yet no buyer.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Someone is going around on the Facebook groups saying that 1-10 are for scrap.

It might happen, but for now they’re being stored. 1-2 will carry on until availability of other vehicles is a bit higher. 40 returned from Volvo this morning, with 41 taking its place.

I’ve been insulted a few times by one of the guys who runs the main Facebook pages about Lothian, for no real reason, yet alone an acceptable one, so I’m always cautious with what I say about it. The irony of course is that it’s promoted by that same admin as a welcoming space, when really he does the exact opposite, albeit indirectly. What I do think is a sensible conclusion though is that a lot of speculation does crop up, many of which I find easy to conclude as made up/fiction. At least with this 1-10 rumour, there is some logic to it. Whether or not it is made up, that’s hard to prove either way.

I would suggest it’s more likely 1-10 would be raided for parts if they were to be scrapped. The 7900H was pretty rare in the UK - certainly in comparison to mainland Europe. So with Lothian being I think now the sole operator of the type left, it would make sense to recycle parts that are no doubt becoming rarer.

A handful of 7900E’s remain with a few operators. Transdev’s ones have recently been listed for sale, with as yet no buyer.

I would honestly be surprised to see any of the 7900 hybrids end up anywhere other than the scrapyard. As said above Lothian are the sole operator in the UK and im pretty sure in left hand drive countries altogether, with First and Transdev having scrapped theirs long ago, what operator will really want to take on a batch of obsolete hybrids

 

[CSB0241]

Dont know if this is a one off thing or not but im on 708 and all its next stop announcements are all in French both the audio ones and on the screen

A while back I was on (I think) 720 & it’s announcements were in french too, very odd.

Vehicle movements at this time -
42/3 Central to Marine
391/2 Marine to Central
366/71/2/4 Central to Longstone (1148/9/51/2 out of use)

Yeah, I saw yesterday that 371 was on the 33 & I was quite blown away until I realised it had recently moved.

Additionally, a morning peak 11 from Kaimes to George Street has been curtailed to Lauriston Place and will likely form one of the Uni shuttle buses as well.

Seems that does a peak run on the 9 that gets into Kings Buildings at 0940.

The allocations are generally unchanged other than the BZLs on the 1 and new sunday 45. The Marine 7s are back to B9TLs and no longer B5TLs.

Is there enough demand for the 1 to use double deckers at it’s current frequency? I get that it’s been reduced on weekday afternoons to every 15min, but does it need to be more than every 20 minutes if it’s solely using deckers?

 

[mb88]

Perhaps they could be used to help with frequency increases at Lothian Country? Could potentially allow for the 72/74 to be rerouted to terminate at Fauldhouse railway station.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Perhaps they could be used to help with frequency increases at Lothian Country? Could potentially allow for the 72/74 to be rerouted to terminate at Fauldhouse railway station.

Will Lothian ever want to run down there again though? Half of Fauldhouse is missed, but that bridge is a problem for Lothian.

 

[mb88]

Will Lothian ever want to run down there again though? Half of Fauldhouse is missed, but that bridge is a problem for Lothian.

Hence using single decks.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Seems that does a peak run on the 9 that gets into Kings Buildings at 0940.

The one I am referring to runs not in service from Lauriston Place back to Kaimes to form a full trip to Western Harbour. This trip previously formed off an 11/15 from Bush, which now returns to the garage.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Hence using single decks.

Ah right I’m with you now, just wasn’t quoted, hence why I got confused. Sorry.

I think the 72 is in a position where it would suffer badly if that happened. I would suggest it’s better to cut that back to Whitburn and replace it with a new single deck route. The only gap as I’ve said before is the Birniehill route so it’d have to pick up that.

The 74 is a different one. Mind you, its route is a bit of a mess now.

Really though it feels too short term to work. The Evora’s are probably a better option in time. However, they’re more likely to move onto the 46/48.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Hence using single decks.

However, Lothian want to keep the Country operations fully double decks.

 

[buslad1988]

Is there enough demand for the 1 to use double deckers at its current frequency? I get that it’s been reduced on weekday afternoons to every 15min, but does it need to be more than every 20 minutes if it’s solely using deckers?

Yes the 1 is busy enough now to warrant a permanent decker allocation. Not forgetting also that the BZL’s don’t have a huge capacity anyway.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Yes the 1 is busy enough now to warrant a permanent decker allocation. Not forgetting also that the BZL’s don’t have a huge capacity anyway.

The 1 has been busy enough for a while, however only now its become possible with the high number of BZLs arriving.
I still say that the 15 minutes feels excessive out of peak, even on 7900s on the west end of the route I sometimes saw buses with less than 10 people onboard. It's mainly peak hours when it fills well - the one I was on this morning had all seat pairs taken by at least one person.
If someone has experience with the east end of the route, how does it look over there?

Like you said capacity is another argument. The BZLs have a lower overall capacity than the 7900s, only because of the high number of standing places on them. Not as if this would be met realistically anyway.

 

[buslad1988]

The 1 has been busy enough for a while, however only now its become possible with the high number of BZLs arriving.
I still say that the 15 minutes feels excessive out of peak, even on 7900s on the west end of the route I sometimes saw buses with less than 10 people onboard. It's mainly peak hours when it fills well - the one I was on this morning had all seat pairs taken by at least one person.
If someone has experience with the east end of the route, how does it look over there?

Like you said capacity is another argument. The BZLs have a lower overall capacity than the 7900s, only because of the high number of standing places on them. Not as if this would be met realistically anyway.

The east end is certainly the busiest section of the 1 route. It’s the core direct service between the City and Easter Road and Seafield and it gets extremely busy.

Yes it might now be allocated deckers, however lowering the frequency would put people off with longer waits and still being crammed in.

The west end of the route is arguably quieter but that doesn’t mean the rest of the route should suffer as a result. There are lots of services where one end is busier than the other etc.

Overall it’s a win win. Maintain the 15 minute headway and gains deckers. I’m not sure what the issue is.

 

[Bus9120UK]

The west end of the route is arguably quieter but the doen’t mean the rest of the route should suffer as a result. There are lots of services where one end is busier than the other etc.
is.

Thanks, that's exactly why I ask how it performs on that end. I don't want to make my judgement purely on the quiet buses I'm passing and travelling on here on the west end.

Overall it’s a win win. Maintain the 15 minute headway and gains deckers. I’m not sure what the issue is.

My concern is more generally on whether long term, it's the best use of these resources. If there is geniuenly no better place for them then there is no issue. I tend to overthink these things.

 

[Graeme Duncan]

Is bus 41 currently at Central or Marine.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Is bus 41 currently at Central or Marine.

Central allocated. It’s the one that’s at Volvo just now.

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

It might happen, but for now they’re being stored. 1-2 will carry on until availability of other vehicles is a bit higher. 40 returned from Volvo this morning, with 41 taking its place.

I’ve been insulted a few times by one of the guys who runs the main Facebook pages about Lothian, for no real reason, yet alone an acceptable one, so I’m always cautious with what I say about it. The irony of course is that it’s promoted by that same admin as a welcoming space, when really he does the exact opposite, albeit indirectly. What I do think is a sensible conclusion though is that a lot of speculation does crop up, many of which I find easy to conclude as made up/fiction. At least with this 1-10 rumour, there is some logic to it. Whether or not it is made up, that’s hard to prove either way.

I would suggest it’s more likely 1-10 would be raided for parts if they were to be scrapped. The 7900H was pretty rare in the UK - certainly in comparison to mainland Europe. So with Lothian being I think now the sole operator of the type left, it would make sense to recycle parts that are no doubt becoming rarer.

A handful of 7900E’s remain with a few operators. Transdev’s ones have recently been listed for sale, with as yet no buyer.

Stagecoach in Kilmarnock still have their 21 plate 7900Es, decent buses I'm told

 

[Lx008]

Stagecoach in Kilmarnock still have their 21 plate 7900Es, decent buses I'm told

Did Lothian ever trial a 7900e, on the surface this seems like a much better replacement for the single decks than a single deck BZL, purely capacity related.

 

[Resuwen]

Just saw 15 running an X4 which seems an unusual allocation