"Score" re foreign countries visited -- fair or unfair?

[sprunt]

Maybe they are on paper but in that case you'd not expect them to be free to go about their business in Ireland either given the data sharing links between police forces in Britain and Ireland.

I don't see why not. An Irish citizen who'd been deported from the UK shouldn't have anything to fear from the Irish authorities for that reason alone - being deported from the UK suggests that they wouldn't be wanted there - in any sense of the word - but doesn't suggest they've committed any crime in Ireland.

 

[GusB]

England / Wales / Scotland / Northern Ireland are simply provinces or states of the UK. I would count them all as one country as the UK. People might call them countries but they are not. They are no different to California or Florida or Texas (part of USA) or Alberta or Manitoba or Saskatchewan (part of Canada) or New South Wales or Queensland or Victoria (part of Australia) etc. In fact England / Wales / Scotland / Northern Ireland have even less autonomy and self governance than those examples in other countries.

Please think carefully before making such statements and be sure to take a carrier bag with you; it might be handy when you need something to carry your head in!

Isle Of Man / Guernsey / Jersey / Gibraltar are simply autonomous regions of the UK.

Factually incorrect. Please do some proper research before spouting nonsense.

 

[Starmill]

I don't see why not. An Irish citizen who'd been deported from the UK shouldn't have anything to fear from the Irish authorities for that reason alone - being deported from the UK suggests that they wouldn't be wanted there - in any sense of the word - but doesn't suggest they've committed any crime in Ireland.

It doesn't suggest they've committed a crime? Interesting idea.

 

[m0ffy]

It doesn't suggest they've committed a crime? Interesting idea.

Agreed. Committing an extremely serious offence and serving a decent stretch is pretty much the only way to get deported from Britain as an Irish citizen.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Maybe they are on paper but in that case you'd not expect them to be free to go about their business in Ireland either given the data sharing links between police forces in Britain and Ireland.

Agreed. Committing an extremely serious offence and serving a decent stretch is pretty much the only way to get deported from Britain as an Irish citizen.

Depends on what has happened.

The Isle of Man Courts routinely issue banning orders for non-residents who have committed even relatively minor criminal offences in the island. I've seen banning orders issued to people who have crossed the road whilst it was closed for the motorbike races.

 

[Starmill]

Depends on what has happened.

The Isle of Man Courts routinely issue banning orders for non-residents who have committed even relatively minor criminal offences in the island. I've seen banning orders issued to people who have crossed the road whilst it was closed for the motorbike races.

You can keep coming up with increasingly unlikely hypotheticals if you are pleased by it, I don't mind one bit. I'm sure you're right. It could never be me though!

 

[m0ffy]

Depends on what has happened.

The Isle of Man Courts routinely issue banning orders for non-residents who have committed even relatively minor criminal offences in the island. I've seen banning orders issued to people who have crossed the road whilst it was closed for the motorbike races.

I’m talking about Britain, not IoM. Irish people are not regarded as “foreign” in the way other nationalities are, and can only be deported/banned in extreme circumstances.

 

[sprunt]

It doesn't suggest they've committed a crime? Interesting idea.

It doesn't suggest they've committed one *in Ireland*, no. It suggests that they've committed one (and been served justice for it) in the country they've been deported from, and thus out of the jurisdiction of the Irish authorities.

 

[Bungle158]

A friend, who was very much into this, ticked off Indonesia by taking a ferry from Singapore to some obscure Indonesian island. Yes he got an Indonesian passport stamp, but.....

I ribbed him mercilessly.

The Riau Islands are about 2 hours from Singapore. Bintan is probably the best known. I think the islands are seen as part of Sumatra. Definitely an authentic Indonesian experience.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Sep 2025 ==

I live in India for 6 months every year. I then use it as a springboard to visit other neighbouring countries. For me, airport layovers don't count as a visit. In a new destination, l like to take a local bus or metro ride with a distinct journey goal, rather than a random trip. If l can navigate that, order a meal, do a shop and overnight in an hotel, l feel l have at least ticked off a country.

 

[peterblue]

How many 'places' you've been to, and countries, are not the same thing naturally. There are somewhere between 193 and 200 countries depending on whether you want to use a strict UN member state definition, or whether you want to include almost universally acknowledged countries (e.g. Kosovo, Palestine, Taiwan) that aren't official but mostly recognised as distinct entities.

I do not consider separate islands and overseas territories as distinct countries. The channel islands are British, Svalbard is Norwegian, Greenland is Danish.

I don't think there's an easy way to say what 'counts' as visiting a country, but I would say if you've been to a major city OR a major tourist attraction and spent some time there, then it counts. It's a slightly more liberal definition but I think it's fair to say if you spend a day in Legoland that counts for Denmark and if you spend a day in London then that counts for the UK. I do not consider airport layovers as visiting a country.

 

[Egg Centric]

Depends on what has happened.

The Isle of Man Courts routinely issue banning orders for non-residents who have committed even relatively minor criminal offences in the island. I've seen banning orders issued to people who have crossed the road whilst it was closed for the motorbike races.

OTOH as someone who has marshalled the GP there, they do make non-residents police constables (technically) on not very much of a background check!

 

[CharlieSpotted]

How many 'places' you've been to, and countries, are not the same thing naturally. There are somewhere between 193 and 200 countries depending on whether you want to use a strict UN member state definition, or whether you want to include almost universally acknowledged countries (e.g. Kosovo, Palestine, Taiwan) that aren't official but mostly recognised as distinct entities.

It's got to be the UN Member State definition, hasn't it? If it's good enough for Richard Osman on Pointless it's good enough for me.

"And by 'country' we mean a sovereign state that is a member of the UN in its own right"

 

[The exile]

Wouldn't that make every country in Schengen one country?

No - as the right to impose border controls at inner-Schengen borders still exists - under exceptional circumstances. Polish border crossing have armed guards on duty, though they don’t appear to do much.

 

[Starmill]

No - as the right to impose border controls at inner-Schengen borders still exists - under exceptional circumstances. Polish border crossing have armed guards on duty, though they don’t appear to do much.

The police are armed in the street in many countries across Europe. They're routinely armed in the UK at airports and the like. It has absolutely no effect on anything generally!

In any case, it would be a treaty breach to start randomly refusing other citizens of Schengen countries. So any check is performative, in addition to being temporary in nature. They only really have any effect on third country citizens. Unless the Schengen member is looking at going for the nuclear option obviously.

 

[The exile]

The police are armed in the street in many countries across Europe. They're routinely armed in the UK at airports and the like. It has absolutely no effect on anything generally!

Whatever the guards on the Polish borders are, they are in military fatigues and work from semi-permanent gazebos - even at crossings you might consider insignificant such as Ostritz/ Krzewiba Zgorzelecka. However, that’s not really the point - which is that Schengen countries do retain the right not only to conduct border checks (a right which is quite frequently used - particularly if you don’t look Caucasian) on their borders but also to close them in a way that neither the Scots nor the Welsh (for example) do - though varying COVID restrictions got close to it!

 

[Starmill]

Whatever the guards on the Polish borders are, they are in military fatigues and work from semi-permanent gazebos - even at crossings you might consider insignificant such as Ostritz/ Krzewiba Zgorzelecka. However, that’s not really the point - which is that Schengen countries do retain the right not only to conduct border checks (a right which is quite frequently used - particularly if you don’t look Caucasian) on their borders but also to close them in a way that neither the Scots nor the Welsh (for example) do - though varying COVID restrictions got close to it!

Schengen countries cannot refuse to admit European citizens other than in certain very rare circumstances. They also cannot require passports, only compliance with national ID laws and some evidence that Schengen applies to you. They may impose internal controls, on a temporary basis, at which third country nationals, such as those of the UK, could be obligated to present their passport or else be turned away. The fact that you felt they looked a bit intimidating doesn't make the first bit of difference. Nearly all internal crossings within the Common Travel Area or within Schengen don't involve a check, nor could they involve a rejection of a CTA or EU citizen, save in certain extremely rare cases. Many checks are not even border checks, they're simply domestic police patrols that get onboard trains which have just arrived at the first station over the border. The local police may ask for IDs in most of these countries using national laws - nothing to do with the border.

 

[The exile]

Schengen countries cannot refuse to admit European citizens other than in certain very rare circumstances. They also cannot require passports, only compliance with national ID laws and some evidence that Schengen applies to you. They may impose internal controls, on a temporary basis, at which third country nationals, such as those of the UK, could be obligated to present their passport or else be turned away. The fact that you felt they looked a bit intimidating doesn't make the first bit of difference. Nearly all internal crossings within the Common Travel Area or within Schengen don't involve a check, nor could they involve a rejection of a CTA or EU citizen, save in certain extremely rare cases. Many checks are not even border checks, they're simply domestic police patrols that get onboard trains which have just arrived at the first station over the border. The local police may ask for IDs in most of these countries using national laws - nothing to do with the border.

Think we’re getting to stage of arguing how many angels fit on the point of a pin. The ultimate point is that all Schengen states are still sovereign countries - even if they have voluntarily pooled a degree of that sovereignty. Which way that pooling goes in the long term future is anybody’s guess.

 

[Paul AC]

How many of you have 'ticked off' West Bank (Palestine) for train travel, as I have (somewhat dubiously I have to say)? When you travel on the high speed line to Jerusalem you pass in tunnel under about 1 km of West Bank, but the line comes out into the open briefly to cross a stream - OpenStreetMap: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/31.81216/35.16273

 

[peterblue]

How many of you have 'ticked off' West Bank (Palestine) for train travel, as I have (somewhat dubiously I have to say)? When you travel on the high speed line to Jerusalem you pass in tunnel under about 1 km of West Bank, but the line comes out into the open briefly to cross a stream - OpenStreetMap: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/31.81216/35.16273

I mean surely you must have also been to the old town of Jerusalem too, that's in the west bank technically and you have to go through a checkpoint.

 

[Starmill]

Think we’re getting to stage of arguing how many angels fit on the point of a pin. The ultimate point is that all Schengen states are still sovereign countries - even if they have voluntarily pooled a degree of that sovereignty. Which way that pooling goes in the long term future is anybody’s guess.

The point is that how one crosses the border is a very poor indicator of whether the place on one side of the border is a country or not.

 

[Mojo]

I go by the list of 197 countries, which is the 193 UN Members + 2 observer states (Vatican & Palestine) + Taiwan and Kosovo.

There is also the US organisation Travelers’ [sic] Century Club which has a list of 330 countries & territories although I’m not convinced by this list as it includes oddities such as classing the Sinai Peninsula as additional to the rest of Egypt, and both Hawaii and Alaska as additional to the rest of the US.

In terms of countries visited, I don’t count them unless I have actually spent time there outside of transport. I have changed planes in both Dubai and Doha but wouldn’t say I’ve visited either the UAE or Qatar as in neither case did I leave the airport.

 

[takno]

There is also the US organisation Travelers’ [sic] Century Club which has a list of 330 countries & territories although I’m not convinced by this list as it includes oddities such as classing the Sinai Peninsula as additional to the rest of Egypt, and both Hawaii and Alaska as additional to the rest of the US.

If they're counting Hawaii then we should count the Isle of Wight

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's got to be the UN Member State definition, hasn't it?

Plus Kosovo and Taiwan, surely?

Hawaii and Alaska as additional to the rest of the US.

And this is where you get into the reeds again, especially if you look at places like Puerto Rico.

There are so many weird examples. If you fly from Paris to Reunion your 11-hour flight is actually a domestic flight and you've not left France. But if I went all that way I'd like to tick it off as a different country!

 

[FinsburyPark]

So i as a massive europhile wish to visit all EU countries. I have a Romanian passport so why not see the whole of what the EU has to offer.

Here is the limits I put on myself as to what I consider having visited a country.

1) only being inside transport hubs like Airports, Coach Stations, Ferry Terminals etc does not count.

2) Driving through without getting put of the car does not count. Also if the only time you get out of a vehicle is to stop at a service station or garage, this also does not count.

Theres a guy on youtube who in his definition, visited all EU countries in 4 days. It was mostly flying with some driving. His definition of visiting a country does not align with mine at all.

That said I did appreciate the video he did and I appreciate it was done as a "speed run" or "youtube challenge" and i appreciate it from that viewpoint even if driving through the edge of france for 4 minutes to claim you visisted it, would be a major stretch for most people.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Sep 2025 ==

Plus Kosovo and Taiwan, surely?

And this is where you get into the reeds again, especially if you look at places like Puerto Rico.

There are so many weird examples. If you fly from Paris to Reunion your 11-hour flight is actually a domestic flight and you've not left France. But if I went all that way I'd like to tick it off as a different country!

Ahhh France. The place where you can fly from Africa to South America without leaving France or the EU.

You can fly from Mayotte to Paris and then Paris to Cayenne French Guiana and would have visited 3 continents while still being on French and EU territory.

EU citizens can do the whole thing on an EU ID card and don't need a passport either.

Fun fact or fun trivia question:

Q: Which country has the longest border with France?

A: Brazil

 

[geoffk]

I work to this listing:

ISO 3166-1 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Its worth pointing out that Guernsey and Jersey are very definitely not part of the UK - they were governed by what is todays Crown before the Norman invasion, they are in fact the last part of the Duchy of Normandy!

Self-governing Crown Dependencies, like the Isle of Man. In each case, the UK is constitutionally responsible for defence but the islands make a contribution to the cost.

 

[Bungle158]

No - as the right to impose border controls at inner-Schengen borders still exists - under exceptional circumstances. Polish border crossing have armed guards on duty, though they don’t appear to do much.

Stringent checks by Bulgarian guards at the Greek frontier to the north of Thessaloniki back in July