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How does a TTI know a contactless card is valid for travel?

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silverfoxcc

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BiL is travelling from Twyford to Kings Cross ( Elizabeth line to farringdon the Thameslink to Kings Cross)
He is tapping his barclaycard in at Twyford and he asked if a ticket inspector gets on, how does he prove hr has a ticket?

I guess that his Gizmo can read the card, but other than that i am stumped.

Can you reassure him he wont be handcuffed lol for inability to produce

He is getting on at Twyford later at about 10.30

Thanks

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ainsworth74

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They have handheld devices that check if a card has been blocked or not. If it's been blocked then you have no valid ticket and a Penalty Fare or report for prosecution follows. If it hasn't been blocked then at the end of the day in the "back office" the touch data is reconciled and, as long as you touched in, nothing else happens. If you didn't touch in a maximum journey charge will be applied to the card. Do this repeatedly and the card will get blocked.

There's no-way for an inspector to know when they actually scan your ticket if it's valid for travel or not (other than if it comes back as blocked). It all happens overnight.
 

ainsworth74

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Can a card be blocked between tapping in and inspection?
I suppose possibly if you're travelling very late at night (as that's when things get reconciled)? However I'm not really an expert! Someone like @MikeWh or @Watershed might have a better idea! But either way it seems highly unlikely to happen in practice and particularly to OPs brother in law who will be travelling wholly legitimately!
 

PeterC

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Can a card be blocked between tapping in and inspection?
Low probability but the issuer may block it if it is compromised and they spot fraudulent activity. It happened to me about 20 years ago between leaving the house to take my mother out to lunch and trying to pay the bill.
 

Ken H

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isnt the business case for allowing people to use bank cards to tap i and out is that most transactions wil go through OK? The few that fail probably cost less than the equipment they replace so its quids in for the railway.
The railway will go for the low hanging fruit of fraud to give a message that fraud does not pay to deter others.

most businesses dont pursue small amounts of non payment. the cost of sending letters probably exceeds the debt.
 

Surreytraveller

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Low probability but the issuer may block it if it is compromised and they spot fraudulent activity. It happened to me about 20 years ago between leaving the house to take my mother out to lunch and trying to pay the bill.
There's a difference between blocked from the railway's point of view, and blocked from the bank's point of view. I suppose the railway's 'blocked' is more of a blacklist
 

Watershed

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I suppose possibly if you're travelling very late at night (as that's when things get reconciled)? However I'm not really an expert! Someone like @MikeWh or @Watershed might have a better idea! But either way it seems highly unlikely to happen in practice and particularly to OPs brother in law who will be travelling wholly legitimately!
As I understand it, the way that the system works is that barriers and inspection devices only store part of the full list of blocked cards. That part is refreshed/filtered so that it only includes the blocked card most recently used (or attempted to be used). I don't know what period that covers, but based on my experience of working with systems like this, I would hazard a guess at something between a month and a year.

So if your card was blocked a long time ago (e.g. because your account didn't have enough balance for the payments to go through for a day's travel) and you then try to use it again some months/years later, it might allow you to enter when you touch in at the start of your journey, since your card wouldn't be on the list of recently used blocked cards.

But before you complete your journey, the blocked card list would have updated to include your card, so if that flows through to barriers/validators quickly enough, you wouldn't be able to touch out and would have to speak to staff (possibly incurring an MG11 or Penalty Fare). It might also update quickly enough mid-journey so that an RPI doing onboard checks would see your card as blocked.

In my view this isn't really an acceptable solution since, when you get the green light on tapping in at the start of your journey, that is your authorisation to travel. It can't be revoked mid-journey in the way that TfL's systems basically purport to do. But we have seen a few cases where people have got caught out with that.

We have also seen the reverse issue crop up, where a card that was blocked for non-payment has been unblocked and re-authorised for travel (i.e. the overdue payment has gone through or been manually paid) and therefore someone is able to start their journey. However, they get stopped by an RPI part way through the journey because the RPI's device doesn't have the latest list of blocked devices (i.e. where the card is no longer showing as blocked).
 
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