Hulley's of Baslow (Defunct)

[Trainman40083]

No idea why they would do that since the name's reputation has plummeted! Surely it would make more sense to just use the high peak brand.

Maybe they want to keep it separate from the High Peak brand, like Wellglade does with it's various companies.

 

[peterblue]

Maybe they want to keep it separate from the High Peak brand, like Wellglade does with it's various companies.

I suppose so, but unlike Wellglade with their cheaper low-cost Notts&Derby offshoot, High Peak isn't a particularly extravagant or high cost operation to begin with.

 

[mayneway]

Indeed or if they really want to use the name 'The New Hulleys by Centrebus'. Still it might at last mean Connexions at last rebrand at least Enviro 200 YX12DHN which is crazilly still running around in full Hulleys livery.

At first i thought Connexions were being extremely lazy not painting the bus or removing the fleet names etc but given the way the owner was heavily defending Hulleys and owner Alf a couple of weeks back on social media I suspect it’s purposely been left as a nod to Alf.

 

[Trainman40083]

I suppose so, but unlike Wellglade with their cheaper low-cost Notts&Derby offshoot, High Peak isn't a particularly extravagant or high cost operation to begin with.

I see Trentbarton as an operator of commercial bus services, whereas Notts and Derby are tendered and contract services. Maybe lower cost, even lower margin. But they have their niche market.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

No idea why they would do that since the name's reputation has plummeted! Surely it would make more sense to just use the high peak brand.

Matlock isn't in the High Peak and so none of these routes will touch that area so it may be felt a more appropriate brand needs to be developed if a network of routes has been gained in this area whilst avoiding something too geographically focused to allow development into a new area. As to the specific brand chosen that is a question only certain senior people at Centrebus could answer but there is a often an unseen strand of enthusiasm in some managers that isn't obvious that leads to historic identities reappearing. Hulleys may have had a shaky couple of years before the collapse but they had been going for over a hundred years and so there will be a lot of affection for the company in the community that may well survive to be built on. Not sure it is the choice I would have made but once you start thinking along those lines it does make sense though I may have gone back slightly further and picked up Silver Service as an alternative.

 

[mangad]

I would have thought the other obvious reason for not using the High Peak brand is because High Peak is a joint venture with Wellglade, and (presumably) these contract wins were made by Centrebus itself, not High Peak.

 

[SCH117X]

At first i thought Connexions were being extremely lazy not painting the bus or removing the fleet names etc but given the way the owner was heavily defending Hulleys and owner Alf a couple of weeks back on social media I suspect it’s purposely been left as a nod to Alf.

and sod confusing passengers. Its bad enough with their multiple coloured fleet without not having the correct fleetname showing.

 

[MotCO]

Interesting development! The depot (according to the linked advert) is in DE45 which covers this area:


Yet it is for Crick area contracts, which is about 10km to the south east of this area.

I wonder how many routes have been gained and what the PVR is? If Hulley's found it hard to recruit staff in this area, and most of the staff have now presumably found alternative employment, how easy will it be to establish a new base to service these contracts?

 

[tocguard]

Interesting development! The depot (according to the linked advert) is in DE45 which covers this area:
View attachment 188018

Yet it is for Crick area contracts, which is about 10km to the south east of this area.

I wonder how many routes have been gained and what the PVR is? If Hulley's found it hard to recruit staff in this area, and most of the staff have now presumably found alternative employment, how easy will it be to establish a new base to service these contracts?

Because it's baslow depot that's being used.

 

[m79900]

Is the plan to establish a wider network? It'd be odd for Centrebus to revive a whole name just to run a couple of infrequent services some distance from their base.

 

[38291018]

Is the plan to establish a wider network? It'd be odd for Centrebus to revive a whole name just to run a couple of infrequent services some distance from their base.

Would of thought with Andrew's of Tideswell venturing into public services again and repainting a load of buses for there 172/173/178/257 that they would be trying to expand more into the area through DCC contacts or atleast keeping there current as long as possible till they loose it so will be interesting to see how centrebus will do in Baslow as now they have the crich services there's only a few matlock-asbourne and chesterfield contract they can bid for. Question is it really worth opening up the depot in Barlow for the 3 crich services as it may be difficult to expand in the peak district and buxton seems to cope with dead milage to Ashbourne so surely can get to matlock or use trents matlock depot to hold 3 solos. In my opinion if they wanted expand around peaks makes more sence to move from Barlow to chesterfield as you can find more competition there than around bakewell?

 

[tram21]

I'm told that Hulley's old depot in Baslow is being used, and they will initially be operating Crich routes 140-143 and the 272 service from this base under the new brand name 'Hulleys'

 

[Teapot42]

Not massively surprising in some ways - High Peak tried to buy Hulleys a few years back. Most odd thing is that Richard Eades didn't cash in and sell the depot site for access / housing. As there is a restriction on the number of vehicles which can be operated from there (which Hulleys ignored and the Peak Park made noises about enforcing) then they can't exactly run lots from there anyway.

I can't see many staff moving back - from what I've seen and been told Andrews is a very different and very nice place to work.

 

[Trainman40083]

Not massively surprising in some ways - High Peak tried to buy Hulleys a few years back. Most odd thing is that Richard Eades didn't cash in and sell the depot site for access / housing. As there is a restriction on the number of vehicles which can be operated from there (which Hulleys ignored and the Peak Park made noises about enforcing) then they can't exactly run lots from there anyway.

I can't see many staff moving back - from what I've seen and been told Andrews is a very different and very nice place to work.

Some Hulleys drivers have probably retired.

 

[Simon75]

Or maybe because its a name people know, regardless of it went under (like Wilko)

 

[markymark2000]

I would have thought the other obvious reason for not using the High Peak brand is because High Peak is a joint venture with Wellglade, and (presumably) these contract wins were made by Centrebus itself, not High Peak.

Is it a fact or opinion that the tenders were won by Centrebus itself?

 

[mangad]

Is it a fact or opinion that the tenders were won by Centrebus itself?

Well I did say "presumably".

 

[Trainman40083]

Is it a fact or opinion that the tenders were won by Centrebus itself?

The Hulleys name has been sold to Centrebus. So 8 buses will transfer from High Peak to "Hulleys" at Baslow to work routes 140/141/142/143 and 272.

 

[ACBest]

The Hulleys name has been sold to Centrebus. So 8 buses will transfer from High Peak to "Hulleys" at Baslow to work routes 140/141/142/143 and 272.

There are no plans for the 272 to move over, and I’m not sure the number of vehicles is as high as 8 either.

 

[Teapot42]

The Hulleys name has been sold to Centrebus. So 8 buses will transfer from High Peak to "Hulleys" at Baslow to work routes 140/141/142/143 and 272.

Is it being operated as a new division within Centrebus, or just a brand?

The use of Baslow depot doesn't make much sense for operating the 14x services alone, so I wonder what other plans there are?

 

[m79900]

Is it being operated as a new division within Centrebus, or just a brand?

The use of Baslow depot doesn't make much sense for operating the 14x services alone, so I wonder what other plans there are?

Commercial?

 

[tocguard]

The Hulleys name has been sold to Centrebus. So 8 buses will transfer from High Peak to "Hulleys" at Baslow to work routes 140/141/142/143 and 272.

Source?

There really isn't any requirement for the name to be sold. Why would it be? Any company registered as anything can trade as what it likes. "Hulleys of Baslow" even, was just a trading name of the legal "Henry Hulleys and Sons Ltd".

Where have you had the 272 being ran out of Baslow from too? That's certainly not something that will have been decided because of the implications of wellglade involvement. It may well in time, possibly be ran from there but it's a High Peak registered service so is legally a different company to that which will operate the 14x services. Whilst it is not impossible and does happen, i'm sure discussions will need to take place before any of that is decided, which up to now, I'm told has definitely not taken place!

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Commercial?

It most likely seems one of two things to me. One is that commercial is a strong case with a base closer to the edges of Chesterfield and Sheffield. Cannot see any competition against Trent (6.1) or TM (218) though, seeing as they operate in partnership with Wellglade. They may try and make a go of something in Chesterfield. I'm sure they're miffed at Stagecoach anyway for the 170 scenario. Depending on how and if existing tendered services are renewed as before, they have option to go for those routes. It probably hasn't escaped their attention the particularly high prices that have been put in by limited bidders as of late. There is real concern of some Stagecoach employees that they will lose work as quickly as they gained it. They applied for all the former Hulleys routes and only got the 63. They have now lost the 14x series due to high prices.

Other option is they are building capacity for if the EM mayor decides to award package lot services.

 

[Teapot42]

Commercial?

How much opportunity is there? They've shown they aren't prepared to go up against Stagecoach on the 170 and there seems little other opportunity, other than possibly picking up the 218 once SY franchising happens. There would be the possibility of starting new routes in to Sheffield that would fall under the permit system rather than franchising, but that would mean going up against Stagecoach at a disadvantage, so seems unlikely.

The bigger question is whether this is actually Centrebus, or if it's High Peak. The former would seem odd as it would surely raise concerns in Wellglade.

Aren't the 14x contacts only for a year? If so, maybe taking out a short term lease on the depot and giving it a go isn't such a bad punt.

 

[38291018]

It most likely seems one of two things to me. One is that commercial is a strong case with a base closer to the edges of Chesterfield and Sheffield. Cannot see any competition against Trent (6.1) or TM (218) though, seeing as they operate in partnership with Wellglade. They may try and make a go of something in Chesterfield. I'm sure they're miffed at Stagecoach anyway for the 170 scenario. Depending on how and if existing tendered services are renewed as before, they have option to go for those routes. It probably hasn't escaped their attention the particularly high prices that have been put in by limited bidders as of late. There is real concern of some Stagecoach employees that they will lose work as quickly as they gained it. They applied for all the former Hulleys routes and only got the 63. They have now lost the 14x series due to high prices.

Other option is they are building capacity for if the EM mayor decides to award package lot services.

I could kind of understand mabey the EM mayor thing you said but other than that as I said before, to me it makes no sence at all running only 14x services from baslow as i can't imagine that's much room for expansion around bakewell with Andrew's repainting buses and presumably trying to expand or atleast keep hold of what they have. Would make more sence storing 1 or 2 buses or however many can fit in trents matlock depot or just running dead like they already do with the Ashbourne belper and Derby services. I get Baslow may help to unlock chesterfield however if they wanted a go at that I would try find a cheap place around chesterfield itself not baslow as its dead milage they can adviod knowing if they want to move to the area, but chesterfield makes more sence to me to run from which could run 14x services like stagecoach do now.

 

[tocguard]

I could kind of understand mabey the EM mayor thing you said but other than that as I said before, to me it makes no sence at all running only 14x services from baslow as i can't imagine that's much room for expansion around bakewell with Andrew's repainting buses and presumably trying to expand or atleast keep hold of what they have. Would make more sence storing 1 or 2 buses or however many can fit in trents matlock depot or just running dead like they already do with the Ashbourne belper and Derby services. I get Baslow may help to unlock chesterfield however if they wanted a go at that I would try find a cheap place around chesterfield itself not baslow as its dead milage they can adviod knowing if they want to move to the area, but chesterfield makes more sence to me to run from which could run 14x services like stagecoach do now.

The Andrew's contacts only have 13 months remaining. Their expiry is Oct 26.

 

[MotCO]

The Andrew's contacts only have 13 months remaining. Their expiry is Oct 26.

Maybe the 'new' Hulleys is hoping to establish themselves with the 14x routes, then try their chances with bidding for the contracts currently held by Andrews?

I wonder if Alf is in the background advising Centrebus?

 

[Tetchytyke]

There really isn't any requirement for the name to be sold. Why would it be? Any company registered as anything can trade as what it likes.

The name belongs to Henry Hulley and Sons Limited, which is in administration. Therefore the name has to be purchased from that company’s administrators.

You can’t just set up a new company and trade under the old name, as the old name is an asset of the old company.

 

[MotCO]

The name belongs to Henry Hulley and Sons Limited, which is in administration. Therefore the name has to be purchased from that company’s administrators.

You can’t just set up a new company and trade under the old name, as the old name is an asset of the old company.

But presumably you can set up a company could Smith & Sons or anything else, but paint the name Hulleys on the side of the buses. Provided the legal name on the bus says Smith & Sons, then surely nothing is wrong. Unless 'Hulleys' is protected as a trademark (like 'Harrods' is).

 

[tocguard]

The name belongs to Henry Hulley and Sons Limited, which is in administration. Therefore the name has to be purchased from that company’s administrators.

You can’t just set up a new company and trade under the old name, as the old name is an asset of the old company.

Do you know categorically that they are using "Hulleys of Baslow"? Even if they are and not just trading as "Hulleys", I doubt the name being sold from the administrators is going to cost any more than a nominal fee.

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I wonder if Alf is in the background advising Centrebus?

that's a joke, right?

 

[mangad]

But presumably you can set up a company could Smith & Sons or anything else, but paint the name Hulleys on the side of the buses. Provided the legal name on the bus says Smith & Sons, then surely nothing is wrong. Unless 'Hulleys' is protected as a trademark (like 'Harrods' is).

I am not a legal expert but there are laws about "passing off". It's why there were legal battles about Caterpillar shaped cakes.

Hulleys as a business may be in liquidation but it's brand is still an asset. If the brand fell out of use after liquidation then that's a different matter. I doubt UK North ever got permission to use the GM Buses brand, nor Go Goodwins for Little Gem. But they were both long gone when resurrected.