Senior Rail Card Restrictions. (Query)

[J663738]

Looking at the restrictions for the Senior Railcard, is says:

• The only restriction is morning Peak time services, Monday to Friday (not including public holidays) when journeys are made wholly within the London and South East Network Railcard area. See Time Restrictions for more details

As there didn't appear to be a map on the site, I googled one and this came up:

https://www.network-railcard.co.uk/clientfiles/files/Map.pdf

I assume the areas coloured pink are where the senior exclusions apply?
But Birmingham and Exeter are also included. (not exactly London and the South East)

Is this the correct map or can someone point me to the right one.

 

[jfollows]

Per “Network Railcard Area” on the map you link to, which includes Exeter but excludes Birmingham.

And remember that if one end of your journey is outside the area, the restriction does not apply.

https://www.network-railcard.co.uk/help/faqs/ also has easements allowing travel before 10am on specific routes.

 

[JonathanH]

I assume the areas coloured pink are where the senior exclusions apply?
But Birmingham and Exeter are also included. (not exactly London and the South East)

Yes, for journeys wholly within that pink area. Birmingham is not in the pink area.

Exeter St Davids via Honiton is, but someone could get round that by buying a ticket to Exeter St Thomas, and the restriction does not apply to journeys via Taunton.

Is this the correct map or can someone point me to the right one.

It is the correct map.

 

[J663738]

Per “Network Railcard Area” on the map you link to, which includes Exeter but excludes Birmingham.

And remember that if one end of your journey is outside the area, the restriction does not apply.

https://www.network-railcard.co.uk/help/faqs/ also has easements allowing travel before 10am on specific routes.

Ok, thanks, (On my screen Birmingham is also shaded pink) Angle of the laptop made them look the same.

Its a bit unfair, since everyone pays the same £35.
You could argue trains around Manchester/Leeds are just as busy in the mornings as is the South East.

 

[jfollows]

Ok, thanks, (On my screen Birmingham is also shaded pink)

Its a bit unfair, since everyone pays the same £35.
You could argue trains around Manchester/Leeds are just as busy in the mornings as is the South East.

Swings and roundabouts.
If I lived in London I’d get free travel for most of the day, I get nothing similar in Wilmslow and then only useless bus services when I’m 65.

 

[JonathanH]

Its a bit unfair, since everyone pays the same £35.
You could argue trains around Manchester/Leeds are just as busy in the mornings as is the South East.

Looked at the other way, it is fortunate that Regional Railways and Intercity didn't follow Network South East's lead when it introduced the restriction in 1992, and it hasn't been implemented in the 30-odd years since.

 

[Titfield]

But there is a sort of loophole in the south east which can not be disclosed on this forum as it breaks the rule of fare club (the same as fight club).

 

[Haywain]

If I lived in London I’d get free travel for most of the day, I get nothing similar in Wilmslow and then only useless bus services when I’m 65.

That's slightly different because that's about local authority schemes, not national railcards. Arguably, you pay for that through your council tax and by who you elect for your councils.

 

[jfollows]

That's slightly different because that's about local authority schemes, not national railcards. Arguably, you pay for that through your council tax and by who you elect for your councils.

Yes, but my council tax is hugely more than in parts of London, but I don’t disagree in general.

 

[snail]

Swings and roundabouts.
If I lived in London I’d get free travel for most of the day, I get nothing similar in Wilmslow and then only useless bus services when I’m 65.

No, it's state pension age = 66. If you were born after 6 March 1961 it will be 67 from next April.

Pensioners in England free bus pass blow as DfT confirms change

The Department for Transport has confirmed that people will have to wait an extra year to get a free bus pass in England from next April

www.lancs.live

 

[jfollows]

66. If you were born after March 1961 it will be 67 from next April.

Oh yes, 67 for me indeed.

 

[Jan Mayen]

But there is a sort of loophole in the south east which can not be disclosed on this forum as it breaks the rule of fare club (the same as fight club).

Anything to do with a former Inter City route perhaps?

 

[Titfield]

Anything to do with a former Inter City route perhaps?

eh no. I don't know that one...

 

[Jan Mayen]

eh no. I don't know that one...

Gatwick Express. Well, the Victoria to Gatwick bit, anyway.
I was told, when I got my Senior Railcard, that the South East restrictions don't apply as it was part of Inter City.
Disclaimer: I have no idea if this was or is correct. Rely on it at your own risk!

Of course, I'd love to know what the other loophole is then

But best not tell me. I'd only forget it was secret, what with having a Senile Railcard...

 

[Haywain]

I was told, when I got my Senior Railcard, that the South East restrictions don't apply as it was part of Inter City.
Disclaimer: I have no idea if this was or is correct. Rely on it at your own risk!

Never heard that one - sounds like cobblers to me.

But isn't, see below.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

I was told, when I got my Senior Railcard, that the South East restrictions don't apply as it was part of Inter City.
Disclaimer: I have no idea if this was or is correct. Rely on it at your own risk!

It's correct up to point but only as a rule of thumb. The removal of the peak hour restriction as far as I am aware applies when are travelling from inside to outside the area of the former Network South East. Thus it was intended to facilitate longer distance leisure travel rather than commuting. Longer distance travel would more likely than not be using "Inter City" services.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Gatwick Express. Well, the Victoria to Gatwick bit, anyway.
I was told, when I got my Senior Railcard, that the South East restrictions don't apply as it was part of Inter City.

Yes that is true. At least, journey planners generally implement it as an exception to that "morning peak rule", although not sure if it is written down anywhere.

 

[Skiddaw]

No, it's state pension age = 66. If you were born after 6 March 1961 it will be 67 from next April.

Pensioners in England free bus pass blow as DfT confirms change

The Department for Transport has confirmed that people will have to wait an extra year to get a free bus pass in England from next April

www.lancs.live

I know. I'm gutted (I was born in 1964). I still think it's pants that I could get my senior railcard at 60 but have to wait another 6 years before I get my bus pass.

 

[Haywain]

Turns out that it isn't cobblers and there is an easement. The Senior Railcard can be used at any time on Gatwick Express services (only) between Victoria and Gatwick Airport, and vice versa. Not much help if you're starting from somewhere else in the Network Railcard are though.

 

[wildcard]

But there is a sort of loophole in the south east which can not be disclosed on this forum as it breaks the rule of fare club (the same as fight club).

Not exactly a loophole - but I was on my third Senior railcard ( linked to my Oyster account ) before I realised I could use it with a LNR paper ticket out of Euston on a weekday afternoon ( 16:00 to 19:00 ). I had assumed for several years it followed the same restriction as applied to its Oyster implementation ( not valid in weekday evening peaks but with to London Lioness line / Z1 exceptions ) . Do we know which way it will go evening peak wise on Contactless ?

 

[David M]

I know. I'm gutted (I was born in 1964). I still think it's pants that I could get my senior railcard at 60 but have to wait another 6 years before I get my bus pass.

Not really disagreeing with you but you don't "get" your Senior Railcard, you have to buy it or choose not to.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Turns out that it isn't cobblers and there is an easement. The Senior Railcard can be used at any time on Gatwick Express services (only) between Victoria and Gatwick Airport, and vice versa. Not much help if you're starting from somewhere else in the Network Railcard are though.

Could it be because Network Railcard discounted tickets never used to be valid on the Gatwick Express, as as mentioned, it was part of Intercity. Therefore Senior Railcard discounted tickets with restrictions tied to the Network Railcard are irrelevant.
So it then follows, that if using the Gatwick Express, Gatwick Airport and Victoria are outside the Network Railcard area. So a Senior Railcard discounted ticket would be valid to a destination of Gatwick or Victoria at any time, as long as you are using the Gatwick Express.
Would that be a plausible explanation?

 

[Watershed]

Not exactly a loophole - but I was on my third Senior railcard ( linked to my Oyster account ) before I realised I could use it with a LNR paper ticket out of Euston on a weekday afternoon ( 16:00 to 19:00 ). I had assumed for several years it followed the same restriction as applied to its Oyster implementation ( not valid in weekday evening peaks but with to London Lioness line / Z1 exceptions ) . Do we know which way it will go evening peak wise on Contactless ?

In terms of 'Ovalised' routes where contactless is now accepted, the paper fares were changed to standardise the morning restrictions to 'not before 09:30', and to add evening peak restrictions heading out of London (where they didn't already exist).

The restriction on when you can use your Senior Railcard is slightly different - it is linked to when Off-Peak tickets become available in the morning for the journey you're making. Your Senior Railcard can then be used for the rest of the day, even if there are evening peak restrictions which mean you have to buy an Anytime ticket heading out of London.

In other words, Senior Railcards only exclude morning peak travel (within the Network Railcard area). Evening peak travel receives the normal discount.

Contactless PAYG still doesn't support Railcard discounts and there seems to be no indication that this will change anytime soon.

 

[fandroid]

There's another situation where a Senior Railcard discount applies to all journeys wholly within the Network Railcard area, regardless of time. That's for Railair buses from Reading and Guildford/Woking to Heathrow. Similar to that Gatwick Express exception mentioned, Network Railcard discounts do not apply to those tickets. It's worthwhile for Senior Railcard holders to do a manual split on ticket purchases if travelling to the airport early from somewhere else in the Southeast, although I'm sure the Forum's site will do it for you too.

 

[Skiddaw]

Not really disagreeing with you but you don't "get" your Senior Railcard, you have to buy it or choose not to.

Yes indeed, but I do think that encouraging as many people as possible to use public transport is a Good Thing and that therefore, some sort of 60+ concession for bus travel as well as train travel would be a good idea. Not necessarily a freebie but something along the Senior Railcard line. A joint bus & railcard perhaps?

 

[Haywain]

although I'm sure the Forum's site will do it for you too.

I've just tried, and it doesn't.

 

[Cell2025]

Yes indeed, but I do think that encouraging as many people as possible to use public transport is a Good Thing and that therefore, some sort of 60+ concession for bus travel as well as train travel would be a good idea. Not necessarily a freebie but something along the Senior Railcard line. A joint bus & railcard perhaps?

I appreciate that this relates to National Express only, and that you may already know, but you can get a £15 card for NE at age 60. I know it's not local buses, but better than nothing.

Buy a Senior Coachcard: Save 1/3 on coach travel for over 60s

Over 60? Get a Senior Coachcard and save 1/3 on standard & flexible National Express fares Pays for itself in just one trip - buy yours today!

www.nationalexpress.com

As for getting the benefit at age 60, and despite having just qualified for my Senior Rail Card, I have to say that I'm more grateful that I qualify at 60 than I am frustrated about paying full bus fares locally. Hand on heart I think age 60 is a pretty generous concession given how long people are working (or are expected to work).