ScotRail Suburban Fleet (EMU and BEMU) Market Engagement

[Trainbike46]

I think there are clearance problems where the line goes under the canal.

To install OHLE, so that makes the line a perfect candidate for some of the BEMUs discussed here.

On that note, the number of BEMUs quoted seems low - 28 isn't that many, and there's quite a few lines these would be used on. Is that my perception being wrong, or is the 28 only for some of the services?

 

[stevieinselby]

To install OHLE, so that makes the line a perfect candidate for some of the BEMUs discussed here.

On that note, the number of BEMUs quoted seems low - 28 isn't that many, and there's quite a few lines these would be used on. Is that my perception being wrong, or is the 28 only for some of the services?

If the plan is that they are 4/5/6-car units, you might find that each one is replacing two of the current diesel units. With East Kilbride being fully electrified and not needing BEMUs, that would allow them to directly or indirectly replace most 156s and 158s with BEMUs, but not all of them if my maths is correct.

 

[Snow1964]

I think there are clearance problems where the line goes under the canal.

It might be insufficient clearance for wires, but would a low profile solid bar conductor with rigid insulation fitted above it work.

There are also special shallow depth composite sleepers available nowadays which allows track height to few a few cm lower than normal

 

[EMU303]

I think there are clearance problems where the line goes under the canal.

I was referring to the line being used by BEMUs to avoid the need for electrification (except for a small section at Anniesland station).

 

[Altnabreac]

A couple of questions from a layman if you don’t mind:-

- what, if anything, does the suburban fleet procurement strategy tell us about how Transport Scotland thinks Clyde Metro will affect the heavy rail network? Do we infer that the Argyle Line and Cathcart routes are expected to continue as they are rather than be converted to metro/tram train?

- could the new BEMUs operate to Kilmarnock without further electrification?

Thanks.

2 out of 3 Glasgow / Kilmarnock diagrams operate pretty much self contained on that route with just a positioning move from Ayr CSD morning and evening. They could be easily run by BEMUs.

The 3rd diagram is linked in with Stranraer and Carlisle services so would require major changes to the diagram to make it work.

The only question would be whether having a small subfleet based in Ayr while the majority of the BEMUs are operating from Edinburgh would be viable?

 

[Carntyne]

I was referring to the line being used by BEMUs to avoid the need for electrification (except for a small section at Anniesland station).

You'd surely electrify Ashfield - Westerton on the Maryhill route to allow future BEMUs for the West Highland Line to run electric all the way to Craigendoran.

Lochburn tunnel might pose an issue as well.

 

[BorderCollie]

New battery-electric trains announced for Fife and Borders railway​

New battery-electric trains announced for Fife and Borders railway | Transport Scotland

www.transport.gov.scot

 

[Snow1964]

New battery-electric trains announced for Fife and Borders railway​

New battery-electric trains announced for Fife and Borders railway | Transport Scotland

www.transport.gov.scot

partial electrification of 2 routes too

“I am delighted to confirm that the next phase in Scotland’s programme to decarbonise the railway network will involve the electrification of sections of the Fife and Borders railways. This will support the deployment of battery-electric trains across these key routes.

New battery-electric trains announced for Fife and Borders railway | Transport Scotland

www.transport.gov.scot

 

[NCT]

Good to see Borders partial electrification given the go ahead and rolling stock procurement finally authorised!

 

[waverley47]

Good to see Borders partial electrification given the go ahead and rolling stock procurement finally authorised!

Rolling stock ITT expected week commencing 29th September, boots on the ground and piles in the soil on the Borders line expected January 2026.

 

[ld0595]

Fantastic news!

 

[800001]

Scotrail leading the way yet again in electrification.

 

[Gflynorw]

The electrification of these sections, will these battery trains cope with the climb from Newtongrange to Fushiebridge? I know there issues with tapping into the grid on the route but surely extending the wires from Shawfair to even Gorebridge would be achievable? Seems a long section to run on battery.

 

[Rick1984]

Is there any challenging bits on the Borders railway that explain the reasoning behind partial electrification?

 

[Trainbike46]

The electrification of these sections, will these battery trains cope with the climb from Newtongrange to Fushiebridge? I know there issues with tapping into the grid on the route but surely extending the wires from Shawfair to even Gorebridge would be achievable? Seems a long section to run on battery.

View attachment 187877

Shawfair to Galashiels is 27 miles, so that makes the gap something aroun 20-25 miles, well within range of BEMUs today, which can easily hit 60 miles, so I wouldn't worry about that

 

[alexf380]

Is the plan to return later and fill in the section between Shawfair and Bowshank Tunnel, or are BEMUs to remain on this line long term? Either way it's great to see the construction teams staying busy.

 

[RailWonderer]

With the Fife circle also getting these BEMUs it will mean more DMUs scrapped or cascaded. I'm interested to see who will be bidding for the contract if they'll get a European built microfleet or a 385 variation.

 

[800001]

With the Fife circle also getting these BEMUs it will mean more DMUs scrapped or cascaded. I'm interested to see who will be bidding for the contract if they'll get a European built microfleet or a 385 variation.

Or they go for a 756 stadler unit, ticks all the boxes already, electric, battery and level boarding.

 

[Snow1964]

With the Fife circle also getting these BEMUs it will mean more DMUs scrapped or cascaded. I'm interested to see who will be bidding for the contract if they'll get a European built microfleet or a 385 variation.

Might be a micro fleet in Scotland, but there might be other UK operators, as others are also looking at similar BEMUs. Much easier to pass risk tests if second operator is piggybacking on a tested design. As an example the units for C2C were quick because they accepted clones of Anglia units

 

[NCT]

I don't think there are any current piggyback options that procurement rules would allow?

I'm pretty sure the procurement will cover both the Fife/Borders BEMUs and the Strathclyde EMUs, with options for future BEMUs for Maryhill and Aberdeen local services. That's a substantial fleet.

 

[Russel]

I don't think there are any current piggyback options that procurement rules would allow?

I'm pretty sure the procurement will cover both the Fife/Borders BEMUs and the Strathclyde EMUs, with options for future BEMUs for Maryhill and Aberdeen local services. That's a substantial fleet.

Whatever is chosen, I hope it is has a proper urban door set up, after using the Maryhill line last week, 156 and 158s aren't a suitable setup with narrow doors at the car ends.

 

[Mollman]

New battery-electric trains announced for Fife and Borders railway​

New battery-electric trains announced for Fife and Borders railway | Transport Scotland

www.transport.gov.scot

The key bit - no trains actually ordered yet

The announcement will see £342 million invested by the Scottish Government, electrifying the lines and procuring 69 new trains, as part of the next stage in modernising Scotland’s Railway.

 

[clc]

2 out of 3 Glasgow / Kilmarnock diagrams operate pretty much self contained on that route with just a positioning move from Ayr CSD morning and evening. They could be easily run by BEMUs.

The 3rd diagram is linked in with Stranraer and Carlisle services so would require major changes to the diagram to make it work.

The only question would be whether having a small subfleet based in Ayr while the majority of the BEMUs are operating from Edinburgh would be viable?

Could that subfleet also serve the Maryhill line do you think?

 

[JumpinTrainz]

The key bit - no trains actually ordered yet

Yeah I’m confused by the announcement - there hasn’t actually been anything ordered

 

[800001]

Yeah I’m confused by the announcement - there hasn’t actually been anything ordered

Because they have not ordered anything.

The following is from the announcement
'ScotRail expects to issue a contract notice for the Suburban Fleets in Autumn 2025.'

 

[GraphitProjekt]

Is a contract announcement the precursor to a tender then? Meaning we've been given notice of the intention to issue another notice (in autumn) which is itself a notice that a tender is coming soon.

 

[clc]

Is a contract announcement the precursor to a tender then? Meaning we've been given notice of the intention to issue another notice (in autumn) which is itself a notice that a tender is coming soon.

I believe publishing the Contract Notice is the official commencement of procurement.

 

[waverley47]

ITT expected week beginning 29th September

 

[Snow1964]

Is a contract announcement the precursor to a tender then? Meaning we've been given notice of the intention to issue another notice (in autumn) which is itself a notice that a tender is coming soon.

Sometimes called a Market Engagement notice, or Prior Information notice,

They are slightly different, but they are issued when an organisation knows roughly what it needs, but is out of touch with who has capacity, and skills to actually supply what it needs. They invite manufacturers to get in touch and say yes we can do it with A, B, C, etc requirements, but if you want to add D, E etc specs then going to have to do some redesign and development (which is riskier and will take time and cost). Manufactures might come back and say have something that is close to D which works, but not 100% so bear this in mind when you write the tender.

There are two ways to formulate tenders, the simple version says needs to be able to do W, X, Y, Z etc and leave it to builder (who can adapt a design for elsewhere that works), or second way is to make a very long list of requirements micro managing all the features (which inevitably leads to delays, or a bad bodge to fit the spec) even if the spec was not optimised to be practical, but more a list of thoughts in a remote office. DfT has been known to do second type so trains with compromises exist.

 

[D365]

Or they go for a 756 stadler unit, ticks all the boxes already, electric, battery and level boarding.

I was under the impression that, going forward, all tenders for passenger rolling stock will be stipulating that manufacturers provide all three of the above features. So it’s not something that will be unique to Stadler.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2025 ==

… or second way is to make a very long list of requirements micro managing all the features (which inevitably leads to delays, or a bad bodge to fit the spec) even if the spec was not optimised to be practical, but more a list of thoughts in a remote office. DfT has been known to do second type so trains with compromises exist.

And the governing bodies continues to do so!