But most of that is downriver from the Pier Head. In the other direction there is very little.
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What extensions should be made to the Merseyrail Network?
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Fawkes Cat
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<COUGHS>
Ship Canal...
Garston Docks...
More relevant to the suggestion of an airport to town boat is surely how long such a boat would take? I don't actually know how fast boats move but my impression is that it tends to be a few miles an hour. So while there might not be any other traffic in the way of an airport ferry, might it not be so slow that any advantage it got by not going through traffic like a bus would be lost?
As well as the provision of access from JLA airport to the river.
It is true that during the 1984 Garden Festival ferries operated from Otterspool Promenade to the Wirral
Tazi Hupefi
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I still think it would be far cheaper, less disruptive and ready far sooner to put a ferry terminal in at the other side of Liverpool Airport and run London style Uber fast boats every 15-20 mins into the Pier Head with a journey time of well under 30 mins. You could really transform parts of the Wirral and South Liverpool. Especially now with Everton football club being at the docks and a huge number of fans flying in to Merseyside games.
At least compared to a Merseyrail extension.
Yes the river is used for freight and long distance stuff, but that isn't really serving Merseyside internally. London style river services would be a huge upgrade and supplement Merseyrail. The existing ferry is essentially a fairly expensive tourist cruise rather than a means of readily accessible public transportation. I'm not even sure whether all of the terminals are even still open.
At least compared to a Merseyrail extension.
Yes the river is used for freight and long distance stuff, but that isn't really serving Merseyside internally. London style river services would be a huge upgrade and supplement Merseyrail. The existing ferry is essentially a fairly expensive tourist cruise rather than a means of readily accessible public transportation. I'm not even sure whether all of the terminals are even still open.
Fawkes Cat
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As a commuter operation, the ferry now runs Seacombe - Pier Head. And when a ferry isn't available, I understand that a coach is substituted which doesn't seem to cause any great problem for the commuters.
Realistically, it's a tourist operation on the back of the Gerry and the Pacemakers song. Purely in terms of public transport, using a bus all the time would
BerkshireRails
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Ferries tend to have a maximum speed of between 15-30mph.
As I live with walking distance of Otterspool promenade and often go there, I have very rarely seen any ships going to or from either of those places. I can't see how a regular express ferry service (like the Thames clipper) is not compatible with the present use of the river. But I'm not a mariner and there may of course be good reasons. Whether or not it would be economically viable, or popular, is another question.
It is worth noting that for technical reasons a ferry terminal cannot be created at Everton's new stadium. This is stated on the club's website.
Bletchleyite
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It says legislative restrictions - would be interesting to know what those are!
frodshamfella
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I think this has been talked about in the past.
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I think the issue with improvements for transport to the airport, is its not just left before it becomes a real problem. Liverpool Airport is now the second busiest in the North of England, having past Newcastle Airport.
There are already plans to improve bus services to the airport once bus franchising kicks in.
BerkshireRails
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What does it say if your second busiest airport in the region has to use buses as public transport when the third busiest gets a direct metro service?
pokemonsuper9
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What's the third North West Airport? Or were you referring to a wider region?
Manchester is 1st, Liverpool is 2nd, what's the 3rd?
Fawkes Cat
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That given the location of the second busiest airport, buses are the right solution?
I know this is the speculative sub-forum, but we need to show a certain degree of realism. And that means taking on board that
- however fast it's growing, and however much bigger it is than the other also-rans, Liverpool JLA is not and never is going to challenge Manchester Airport to be the global airport for the North West. If nothing else, the North West doesn't need two global airports
- a fixed link to Liverpool JLA is likely to be too costly
- but if the money is to come from anywhere, it's by building the airport link as a bolt-on to a fixed link to Speke Estate. Given the size of Speke, having it connected to the rest of Liverpool only by road (so private car and bus) really is not adequate.
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I suspect that the OP (who on the basis of their name may not be local to any of the regions in the north) is of the impression that everywhere north of Watford is all the same - and so may have Newcastle Airport in mind.
pokemonsuper9
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That makes sense! I was trying to think of a metro connected airport that wasn't London or Manchester. Newcastle does sound like the answer there.
BerkshireRails
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For the figures I was referring to this quote which says Newcastle.
North of Watford you get to the Midlands before you reach the North. However the Midlands are still a bit further north than Watford, your looking at more like Rugby area before you start getting to the Midlands I would say.
Fawkes Cat
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OP seems to remain unaware that the North West, North East and Yorkshire are different places from each other. To say nothing of Cumbria (now Cumberland / Westmoreland & Furness) which has a tendency to be lumped in with the North East...
BerkshireRails
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I was going off the data that Frodshamfella had provided which lumped together everything into North of England.
I would say the Pennines are a rough marker of North West and North East.
How much if any of the metro line to Newcastle airport is new build? Was it a simpler task than extending from South Parkway, or nearer, to Speke and the airport would be? Speke estate has been neglected for years; a proper link to Merseyrail is what it needs and would get if it was in the south-east*. Although Thamesmead suggests the contrary, I think if it was next to an airport it might well be connected by now.
*well, not to Merseyrail, obviously!
*well, not to Merseyrail, obviously!
I find plenty of people who have never been to Liverpool seem to know what's best for it.
I was once told by a bank to go to their Newcastle branch as the Liverpool one was closed!
BerkshireRails
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Bank foot to Airport is a new line.
swt_passenger
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But it runs mostly over an existing formation that was still open for goods until it finally closed in the 1960s. Only the last few hundred yards into the airport was brand new. Goods traffic as far as Callerton and ICI Prestwick siding was still running occasionally in the mid to late 80s.
The Metro civil engineers were fortunate in that there was generally enough space to be able to run two tracks down what was previously a single track branch.
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