Latin words in English

[edwin_m]

We can discuss this ad nauseam.

that makes it a perfect thread topic then!

We'd probably just end up back with the status quo ante.

 

[Tester]

We'd probably just end up back with the status quo ante.

Bonus

 

[eastwestdivide]

So long as people can spell termini with the correct number of I's.

 

[3141]

Slightly off-topic, but may be of interest if you know some Latin. Poem written in 1914 by Alfred Godley. There's a translation on Wikipaedia. There was a time when an educated person could compose Latin verse as readily as English.

What is this that roareth thus? Can it be a Motor Bus? Yes, the smell and hideous hum Indicat Motorem Bum! Implet in the Corn and High Terror me Motoris Bi: Bo Motori clamitabo Ne Motore caedar a Bo— Dative be or Ablative So thou only let us live:— Whither shall thy victims flee? Spare us, spare us, Motor Be! Thus I sang; and still anigh Came in hordes Motores Bi, Et complebat omne forum Copia Motorum Borum. How shall wretches live like us Cincti Bis Motoribus? Domine, defende nos Contra hos Motores Bos!

 

[edwin_m]

Slightly off-topic, but may be of interest if you know some Latin. Poem written in 1914 by Alfred Godley. There's a translation on Wikipaedia. There was a time when an educated person could compose Latin verse as readily as English.

What is this that roareth thus? Can it be a Motor Bus? Yes, the smell and hideous hum Indicat Motorem Bum! Implet in the Corn and High Terror me Motoris Bi: Bo Motori clamitabo Ne Motore caedar a Bo— Dative be or Ablative So thou only let us live:— Whither shall thy victims flee? Spare us, spare us, Motor Be! Thus I sang; and still anigh Came in hordes Motores Bi, Et complebat omne forum Copia Motorum Borum. How shall wretches live like us Cincti Bis Motoribus? Domine, defende nos Contra hos Motores Bos!

"Bus" is a shortening of the Latin "omnibus", meaning "for all", so it's just a Latin ending not a full word. Though "motor" may be.

 

[GusB]

Assuming this is a light-hearted thread...

Charlibus sittibus on the deskinorum,
Deskibus collapsibus, Charlie on the Floorum.

Sorry, couldn't resist!

 

[3141]

"Bus" is a shortening of the Latin "omnibus", meaning "for all", so it's just a Latin ending not a full word. Though "motor" may be.

You may have misunderstood my reason for posting the poem. I wasn't suggesting that either "motor" or "bus" is a genuine Latin word, but I thought that, in the context of a thread about Latin words in English, those who know some Latin might be entertained by the cleverness of the poem.

 

[edwin_m]

You may have misunderstood my reason for posting the poem. I wasn't suggesting that either "motor" or "bus" is a genuine Latin word, but I thought that, in the context of a thread about Latin words in English, those who know some Latin might be entertained by the cleverness of the poem.

Apologies, should have been clearer in my reply, it's a good contribution to the thread.

 

[3141]

Thanks!

 

[Calthrop]

Assuming this is a light-hearted thread...

Charlibus sittibus on the deskinorum,
Deskibus collapsibus, Charlie on the Floorum.

Sorry, couldn't resist!

And the kindred, old and even sillier, rhyme (with more bus stuff):

Caesar adsum jam (iam)? forte, Pompey aderat;
Caesar sic in omnibus, Pompey sic in at.

 

[jfollows]

You may have misunderstood my reason for posting the poem. I wasn't suggesting that either "motor" or "bus" is a genuine Latin word, but I thought that, in the context of a thread about Latin words in English, those who know some Latin might be entertained by the cleverness of the poem.

Yes, Latin was mandatory at my school in the 1970s and the most amazing O Level I got in terms of effort expended versus expectations was Latin in that I got a “B”. Any learning is good and I don’t complain about my knowledge today, but knowing that “de minimis” is ablative plural really isn’t that important.
I was more disappointed with my “B” in Physics and my “C” in English Language although I went on to get an “A” in Physics at A Level.

 

[styles]

I was once involved in a lengthy discussion about the wording of a large charity's constitution, centered around whether 'referendums' or 'referenda'.

In the end we settled on referenda to refer to multiple referendum votes on a single ballot, and referendums to refer to multiple separate referendum ballots/events.

I doubt it was a correct decision, but this was part of a group formed to get all the people who cared about the precise wording of the charity's constitution, articles of association, and by-laws into a room away from the people discussing the policy which would actually make a difference to the members. We also discussed the formatting of bullet points and their line endings (whether to have commas, semicolons, periods etc), deciding it best to follow the UN document style guide.

 

[jfollows]

I agree with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendum#:~:text=A referendum, plebiscite, or ballot,large-scale opinion poll).

The use of "referenda" as a plural form in English (treating it as a Latin word and attempting to apply to it the rules of Latin grammar) is unsupportable according to the rules of both Latin and English grammar

in the sense that it doesn’t matter either way as long as the meaning is clear to the recipient.
Getting too ‘precious’ about it is silly to me. Same as “its” versus “it’s” where one of them is wrong - so what? I’d rather people post useful and interesting information without worrying about being pulled up for bad grammar.

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To be honest, I’m more annoyed by people posting fair instead of fare. I just don’t get that, other than if the post is dictated.

 

[styles]

I agree with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendum#:~:text=A referendum, plebiscite, or ballot,large-scale opinion poll).

in the sense that it doesn’t matter either way as long as the meaning is clear to the recipient.
Getting too ‘precious’ about it is silly to me. Same as “its” versus “it’s” where one of them is wrong - so what? I’d rather people post useful and interesting information without worrying about being pulled up for bad grammar.

Oh 100% agree. These members used to take up hours of time from 'council' meetings debating spelling, punctuation, grammar, etc. We instead set up a sub-committee for them to debate all this and put forward proposals for changes, which the 'council' ratified without question (because nobody else cared). It was just a way of redirecting their energy.

Similarly, I don't get the whole mocking people online for typos, misused phrases, etc. It seems quite snobbish.

 

[edwin_m]

Similarly, I don't get the whole mocking people online for typos, misused phrases, etc. It seems quite snobbish.

Ad hominem

Oh 100% agree. These members used to take up hours of time from 'council' meetings debating spelling, punctuation, grammar, etc.

Ad infinitum
Ad nauseam

 

[DelW]

In the end we settled on referenda to refer to multiple referendum votes on a single ballot, and referendums to refer to multiple separate referendum ballots/events.

There are cases where both Latin and English style plurals of (originally) Latin words have survived, but taken on different meanings.

Examples include mediums vs media and datums vs data. I'd expect that there are others too ...

In other cases, one version dominates. Has anyone ever attended a meeting where the agendums were discussed?

 

[Henffordd]

Paradoxically, it's really difficult to have a meeting with more than one agenda. So plural is singular??

 

[styles]

Can a meeting have more than one agenda? Or do they form separate meetings?

 

[edwin_m]

Is agenda actually the plural of agendum, or a singular whose plural would be agendae?

 

[AlterEgo]

Is agenda actually the plural of agendum, or a singular whose plural would be agendae?

Agenda means "things to be done", so is accurate when describing a list of things to be covered in a meeting.

A single agenda point ("Matthew to give an update on the progress of the vintage bus restoration") would be an agendum.

 

[oldman]

I remember arguing with a professor (of pharmacy) who insisted that agenda could only be a plural (to talk of 'an agenda' would be a mistake), because it was plural in Latin, and if nearly everyone used it as a singular, nearly everyone was wrong. He couldn't accept that a loan-word might differ grammatically from its origin, or that language could evolve.

Personally I blame the grammar schools for teaching bad Latinate grammar.

(Off topic, Polish has a word tipsy (nail extensions) with an English plural in -s followed by a Polish plural in -y. A single extension is a tips. The horror.)

 

[edwin_m]

Agenda means "things to be done", so is accurate when describing a list of things to be covered in a meeting.

A single agenda point ("Matthew to give an update on the progress of the vintage bus restoration") would be an agendum.

Seeing as you have a Latin username I'll assume your statement is ipso facto true.

 

[DelW]

Seeing as you have a Latin username I'll assume your statement is ipso facto true.

One source of confirmation (others are available):

Agenda vs. Agendum — What’s the Difference?

Agenda refers to a list or program of things to be done, while agendum, now rare, denotes a single item on such a list.

www.askdifference.com

An agenda is commonly understood as a planned list of items to be discussed, acted upon, or accomplished in a meeting or other gathering. It outlines the topics or activities in sequence, providing a structure for the event. In contrast, an agendum refers to one item on this list. However, the use of "agendum" is now relatively uncommon, with "agenda item" or "item" being preferred in modern English.

 

[Harpers Tate]

I just thought I'd fill this post up with some body text

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Aliquam sit amet efficitur dui. Nunc laoreet augue et finibus scelerisque. Nam pulvinar erat ac condimentum vulputate. Nam ac ipsum porttitor, porttitor lorem sed, convallis ipsum. Etiam vulputate euismod sapien non lobortis. Proin venenatis purus nec neque interdum tempus. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. Mauris placerat dolor id aliquam rhoncus. Ut eu urna tortor. Vivamus mauris arcu, bibendum vitae felis eu, posuere rutrum magna. Praesent imperdiet tristique metus, id luctus augue pretium ac. Sed gravida velit diam, at aliquam mi lacinia sagittis. Quisque blandit vehicula lorem a iaculis. Nam hendrerit ante a urna elementum egestas.

..which isn't, in fact Latin in any meaningful sense.

For those who don't know, "Lorem Ipsum" is a piece of intentionally meaningless text that is used in the publishing industry etc. to act as a placeholder in designing leaflets and websites and the like, pending the use of the intended actual material, so as to give a visual impression of the layout of the material.

 

[dcbwhaley]

Personally I blame the grammar schools for teaching bad Latinate grammar.

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At my grammar school we had a school song which contained the phrase Nobile canticum

That was translated as "Where is William? Is he unable to attend?"

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Two Latin mottos spring readily to my mind:-

1) ... Per ardua ad astra (Through struggles to the stars) is the official motto of the Royal Air Force

2) ... Nunquam otio torpebat (He never relaxes in idleness) is the school motto of St Bede's College, Manchester. I was in the Classics stream there commencing in 1956 in the Upper Third and did both Latin and Greek.

An oft-used Latin phrase is that of "Non Sequitur", which is a literacy device used for comedic purposes.

 

[GusB]

1) ... Per ardua ad astra (Through struggles to the stars) is the official motto of the Royal Air Force

The RAF motto is familiar to me for a couple of reasons; my dad serving 22 years is one, but also because I chose the history of the RAF as a school project in my second year in secondary school.

I'm struggling to find an online reference, but I'm fairly certain that my school motto was Sic Itur Ad Astra which, according to the almighty Google, translates as "thus one journeys to the stars".

I didn't have the opportunity to take latin as a subject; the year group above me was the last to be taught the subject. We were taught Classical Studies as a subject in first year but we'd be the last.

 

[DelW]

At my grammar school we had a school song which contained the phrase Nobile canticum

That was translated as "Where is William? Is he unable to attend?"

Took me a moment

In the same vein, sic transit Gloria mundi: "tell Gloria we can't repair her van until next week".

 

[edwin_m]

Read somewhere that a school wanted someone to translate its motto "I hear, I see, I learn" into Latin. This came out as "audio video disco".

I don't think they decided to use it.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Bradford FC was formed as a RU club in 1863 but converted to RL in the Great Spilt of 1895.

This did not go well and the club's life and guinea members voted to revert to RU at a meeting in April 1907. However the financial clout behind the club lay with A.H. Briggs, a woollen manufacturer from Harrogate. The club's solicitor declared the decision ultra vires as absolute powers were vested in the Finance and Property Committee. Within a month the announcement was made that the club would adopt Association.

So if it wasn't for Latin legalese, Bradford might now be a rugby union club.

Bradford Football Club 1895-1899 Origins