UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[cactustwirly]

It won't be long until you can buy a 10+ year old EV for a good price, and it'll have a far lower chance of going wrong than an ICE.

Bangernomics (buying 10+ year old cars and running them into the ground) doesn't apply to EVs at the moment (unless you want a milk float) but it will in due course!

I realise someone upthread disputed 10+ years old being a banger, but I think it depends on the vehicle. High value vehicles like Range Rovers tend to be kept well maintained for longer than your common or garden Astra or Focus.

To me bangers start at 15 years old. A lifespan of car is 20 years, rust is the killer

Even then my friends have 15 year old cars and I wouldn't call them bangers in the slightest, still very good cars and well maintained

A 10 year old car still has loads of life left in it and still retains value

 

[styles]

I looked at getting a second hand car on finance once. A lot of finance companies wouldn't touch anything >10 years old or with >100k miles on the clock.

I'm sure there's some out there who would lend on an older or more used car, but it really is closer to pay up front territory unless you want a stinker on an APR.

 

[cactustwirly]

It's illegal to require main dealer servicing to maintain warranties on cars in the UK (it is seen as breaching competition law), however the servicing does need to be to the specification, and there are relatively few back street garages that know EVs and would do that sort of thing correctly per the book.

That will come in the fullness of time, though, and the servicing is pretty minimal anyway.

Tell that to the dealers, they will reject claims if it has been serviced at Kwik Fit. There are numerous examples like Volvo and the EGR valve faults, they will only contribute if serviced at a Volvo dealer etc.

Most places will use aftermarket parts which breach the warranty, only a dealer or specialist will be able to keep it

 

[jon0844]

Tell that to the dealers, they will reject claims if it has been serviced at Kwik Fit. There are numerous examples like Volvo and the EGR valve faults, they will only contribute if serviced at a Volvo dealer etc.

Most places will use aftermarket parts which breach the warranty, only a dealer or specialist will be able to keep it

This is the problem. You often need to take further action to get claims accepted, just as sometimes you need to taken on insurance companies that refuse to pay out or try and pay as little as possible. Some people either don't know they can do this, are too scared, don't have the time or whatever - and so companies get away with it.

There will of course be situations where someone has got work done elsewhere and damaged something or not fixed something properly - and this will be what companies use to try and get away with not honouring a warranty. Again, I'm not sure on the specifics, but even in the USA (which is not known for consumer protections), a warranty can't be invalidated simply by someone else working on something if they were doing something else. Say, a PC repair where you got someone to fix a cable from the PSU to a hard drive, and later one of the RAM sticks stops working. Companies still fit warranty seals that are meaningless as you can open your own products without magically ending the warranty.

To keep on topic, I am sure we'll hear about some crazy situations relating to EVs as a lot of traditional mechanics struggle to catch up with the new technology - even if servicing an EV is considerably easier.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I looked at getting a second hand car on finance once. A lot of finance companies wouldn't touch anything >10 years old or with >100k miles on the clock.

I'm sure there's some out there who would lend on an older or more used car, but it really is closer to pay up front territory unless you want a stinker on an APR.

Unless you are a bad credit risk take an unsecured personal loan. You will pretty much always get a better rate than hire purchase and it's decoupled from the car which can be handy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2025 ==

Tell that to the dealers, they will reject claims if it has been serviced at Kwik Fit.

KF doesn't follow the manufacturer's standard servicing schedules, they have their own. So if something was missed AND that was material to the fault then they could reject it. However it isn't legal simply to reject it because of the simple fact of where it was serviced provided this was to specification and any deviation was not the potential cause.

There are numerous examples like Volvo and the EGR valve faults, they will only contribute if serviced at a Volvo dealer etc.

Within the warranty period that would be illegal - a good reason not to buy a Volvo then!

Outside of it what they contribute is up to them.

Most places will use aftermarket parts which breach the warranty, only a dealer or specialist will be able to keep it

Anyone can purchase OEM parts from a dealer or motor factor. If you want them used you simply have to say so. However in the UK this could only legally affect a warranty (or any other kind of insurance) if it was material to the fault being claimed for.

 

[styles]

Unless you are a bad credit risk take an unsecured personal loan. You will pretty much always get a better rate than hire purchase and it's decoupled from the car which can be handy.

I suspect this is part of the issue though.

I have an above average 'credit score' (yes I know they're not used in lending decisions but they're a rough guide). But chances are, people with a similar credit score to me can buy a second hand car outright, possibly with part ex.

People with a lower credit score probably have on average lower disposable income and will be going for bangernomics, which don't work so well if the lenders willing to take on the risk of a lemon becoming uneconomical to repair require them to be under 10 years old and/or less than 100k miles.

It feels like it's going to be a long time before second hand EVs with decent battery health left become economical for people on low incomes.

 

[cactustwirly]

Unless you are a bad credit risk take an unsecured personal loan. You will pretty much always get a better rate than hire purchase and it's decoupled from the car which can be handy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2025 ==



KF doesn't follow the manufacturer's standard servicing schedules, they have their own. So if something was missed AND that was material to the fault then they could reject it. However it isn't legal simply to reject it because of the simple fact of where it was serviced provided this was to specification and any deviation was not the potential cause.



Within the warranty period that would be illegal - a good reason not to buy a Volvo then!

Outside of it what they contribute is up to them.



Anyone can purchase OEM parts from a dealer or motor factor. If you want them used you simply have to say so. However in the UK this could only legally affect a warranty (or any other kind of insurance) if it was material to the fault being claimed for.

You'd have to be stupid to service your car at Kwik Fit. If they are not following the manufacturers service plan how can you trust their work? Most modern cars have very specific oils etc.
If I saw a car had Kwik Fit stamps in its book that's an immediate red flag and I'd run a mile

Where is your source for this claim it's illegal, it's standard practice across all manufacturers to reject warranty claims if they are serviced outside the dealer network

 

[styles]

You'd have to be stupid to service your car at Kwik Fit. If they are not following the manufacturers service plan how can you trust their work? Most modern cars have very specific oils etc.
If I saw a car had Kwik Fit stamps in its book that's an immediate red flag and I'd run a mile

Where is your source for this claim it's illegal, it's standard practice across all manufacturers to reject warranty claims if they are serviced outside the dealer network

New car warranty, servicing and dealerships | RAC Drive

Will you invalidate your new car warranty if you get it serviced outside of the dealership network in the UK? Find out with our in-depth guide with RAC Drive.

www.rac.co.uk

Do you need to service your car at the dealership to keep the manufacturer warranty?
No, you do not need to service your car at the dealership to maintain the manufacturer warranty. Under European Block Exemption rules (which were retained by the UK after Brexit), car makers cannot void your vehicle’s warranty if you take it to a non-franchised dealership.

As a result, you are free to take your new car to any garage for its servicing. But you must ensure it is serviced in accordance with the manufacturer's schedule and requirements. This means the car must be serviced at or before the specified intervals using the correct parts, oils and fluids.

You should also keep a physical record of the car’s service history, which will prove the car has been maintained correctly.

A stamped service book and itemised invoice that details all of the work that has been carried out to the vehicle will be invaluable should you need to make a warranty claim at a later date. The invoice should document everything the garage has done to the car, right down to the grade of oil used.

You risk voiding the warranty of your car if it is not serviced in line with the manufacturer’s recommendations or you do not have sufficient evidence of the garage using the correct and genuine parts, fluids and oils.

The owner's manual and/or service book for your vehicle will detail the manufacturer's service schedule and requirements. If you cannot find these details or are unsure about the service requirements, contact the manufacturer of your vehicle for more information.

Manufacturers can't tie in customers to indefinitely priced services years into the future to maintain warranty. But they can set out the requirements for servicing and owners need to be very careful to ensure their vehicle is serviced to the strict requirements of the manufacturer.

 

[cactustwirly]

New car warranty, servicing and dealerships | RAC Drive

Will you invalidate your new car warranty if you get it serviced outside of the dealership network in the UK? Find out with our in-depth guide with RAC Drive.

www.rac.co.uk

Manufacturers can't tie in customers to indefinitely priced services years into the future to maintain warranty. But they can set out the requirements for servicing and owners need to be very careful to ensure their vehicle is serviced to the strict requirements of the manufacturer.

In practice that's either dealer or independent specialists. As they use OEM parts, if you take your car to Kwik Fit you can't prove they used the correct parts or followed the correct schedule

 

[styles]

In practice that's either dealer or independent specialists. As they use OEM parts, if you take your car to Kwik Fit you can't prove they used the correct parts or followed the correct schedule

I was responding to your claim about the illegality of honouring warranties when serviced outside of the main dealer network.

I should've trimmed the quote down.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You'd have to be stupid to service your car at Kwik Fit. If they are not following the manufacturers service plan how can you trust their work?

You read what they do, they publish it clearly on their website. Most of it is in excess of what the manufacturer specifies, but it isn't hard to cross reference.

Kwik Fit prejudice is like the usual tripe about Trainline. In reality they are a franchised operation and like anything there are good and bad ones.

I would not however be giving much credit to main stealers, they are usually no more competent than Kwik Fit, three times the price and very often with a massive anti customer attitude problem. I will never, ever take a car to be serviced at one, I have had too many bad experiences.

Most modern cars have very specific oils etc.

I am well aware of that. KF would not wilfully use incorrect oils, the failures it would cause would lay them open to massive claims for compensation which would quickly send them out of business.

If I saw a car had Kwik Fit stamps in its book that's an immediate red flag and I'd run a mile

I wouldn't. I have used the one in Bletchley for years and have always been happy with it, unlike various main dealers in the past

Where is your source for this claim it's illegal, it's standard practice across all manufacturers to reject warranty claims if they are serviced outside the dealer network

@styles has correctly posted this:

New car warranty, servicing and dealerships | RAC Drive

Will you invalidate your new car warranty if you get it serviced outside of the dealership network in the UK? Find out with our in-depth guide with RAC Drive.

www.rac.co.uk

Manufacturers can't tie in customers to indefinitely priced services years into the future to maintain warranty. But they can set out the requirements for servicing and owners need to be very careful to ensure their vehicle is serviced to the strict requirements of the manufacturer.

Is the correct answer.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2025 ==

In practice that's either dealer or independent specialists. As they use OEM parts, if you take your car to Kwik Fit you can't prove they used the correct parts or followed the correct schedule

They state what their schedule is, and you can cross reference it with your service book and have any missing stuff done if there is any (there usually isn't). An independent specialist would be no different, you can't prove it 100% unless you stood there with a camera as it was done.

In short if you want to throw your money up the wall for poor service, be my guest, but there is no requirement to do so and such a requirement would be illegal.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2025 ==

I suspect this is part of the issue though.

I have an above average 'credit score' (yes I know they're not used in lending decisions but they're a rough guide). But chances are, people with a similar credit score to me can buy a second hand car outright, possibly with part ex.

People with a lower credit score probably have on average lower disposable income and will be going for bangernomics, which don't work so well if the lenders willing to take on the risk of a lemon becoming uneconomical to repair require them to be under 10 years old and/or less than 100k miles.

It feels like it's going to be a long time before second hand EVs with decent battery health left become economical for people on low incomes.

It'll be 5 to 10 years. The cars just need to filter through the market. Leafs are available now at affordable prices, they do have iffy batteries but that's just because of the design, cars with good batteries will be along soon.

 

[cactustwirly]

You read what they do, they publish it clearly on their website. Most of it is in excess of what the manufacturer specifies, but it isn't hard to cross reference.

Kwik Fit prejudice is like the usual tripe about Trainline. In reality they are a franchised operation and like anything there are good and bad ones.

I would not however be giving much credit to main stealers, they are usually no more competent than Kwik Fit, three times the price and very often with a massive anti customer attitude problem. I will never, ever take a car to be serviced at one, I have had too many bad experiences.



I am well aware of that. KF would not wilfully use incorrect oils, the failures it would cause would lay them open to massive claims for compensation which would quickly send them out of business.



I wouldn't. I have used the one in Bletchley for years and have always been happy with it, unlike various main dealers in the past



@styles has correctly posted this:



Is the correct answer.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2025 ==



They state what their schedule is, and you can cross reference it with your service book and have any missing stuff done if there is any (there usually isn't). An independent specialist would be no different, you can't prove it 100% unless you stood there with a camera as it was done.

In short if you want to throw your money up the wall for poor service, be my guest, but there is no requirement to do so and such a requirement would be illegal.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2025 ==



It'll be 5 to 10 years. The cars just need to filter through the market. Leafs are available now at affordable prices, they do have iffy batteries but that's just because of the design, cars with good batteries will be along soon.

Well they can barely change a tyre on a car without ripping you off for work that doesn't need doing.

If you pre buy service plans with a dealer it often ends up being cheap.

Independent specialists are often ex Main dealer mechanics, I used one for my Volvo and got a really good service at good prices. Cheaper than Kwik Fit, and they are using genuine parts. Everything carried out it categorised on the invoice and service report so you know what's been checked.

You don't know what Chinese parts Kwik Fit have used

Just looked on their website and their full service is more expensive than taking my car to a BMW main dealer.
More expensive than most independent garages I have used too

 

[jon0844]

There are a surprising number of Nissan Leafs with batteries that are still in good condition; certainly good enough for a lot of people - perhaps including the shift worker that needs a car but doesn't need anything particularly special. Not that a Leaf isn't a decent sized car (if subjectively hideous in early generation forms - before car makers decided to just make EVs look the same as ICE cars, not try and make them look futuristic).

Of course people will be thinking that an old car carries a high risk, as it does for many ICE cars. The risks are a lot lower, but you still need to be aware of them.

 

[Snow1964]

There are a surprising number of Nissan Leafs with batteries that are still in good condition; certainly good enough for a lot of people - perhaps including the shift worker that needs a car but doesn't need anything particularly special. Not that a Leaf isn't a decent sized car (if subjectively hideous in early generation forms - before car makers decided to just make EVs look the same as ICE cars, not try and make them look futuristic).

Of course people will be thinking that an old car carries a high risk, as it does for many ICE cars. The risks are a lot lower, but you still need to be aware of them.

A quick check on autotrader (there are also other sites which may have different cars) has 75 Leafs under £3500, or 147 under £5000

So yes, plenty of early electric cars available, the range will be lot less than newer cars, and might need a non standard charging lead, but for someone needing a car for commuting because of negligible public transport in their area, it ought to be an option.

If budget is nearer £8800 then have a choice of over 1000 electric cars. If you can run them for 7 years, then depreciation is about £100 per month.

 

[jon0844]

You can get an adapter for a Leaf so you can use any CCS cable, but I expect by now that most Leaf owners will charge exclusively at home and use it for short journeys only. With a 70-80 mile realistic range, that's still potentially a good few days of travel so if you topped up with a granny charger each night you wouldn't even need to invest in a dedicated 7kWh AC charger.. you'd be fine with 1-3kWh from a regular plug.

Is depreciation even an issue on a second hand car if so many people argue that they're keeping their ICE car until it stops working. On the same basis, get an EV and run it for another ten years with minimal cost of maintenance and rock-bottom charging costs, then scrap it. Chances are that if it still runs, you'll still be able to use it as a part-exchange on a new car.

 

[E27007]

New car warranty, servicing and dealerships | RAC Drive

Will you invalidate your new car warranty if you get it serviced outside of the dealership network in the UK? Find out with our in-depth guide with RAC Drive.

www.rac.co.uk

Manufacturers can't tie in customers to indefinitely priced services years into the future to maintain warranty. But they can set out the requirements for servicing and owners need to be very careful to ensure their vehicle is serviced to the strict requirements of the manufacturer.

An issue with using independent servicing outlets and not the manufacturer, is the case of "Goodwill" warranty claims, I had a car which was out of warranty and required an expensive part to be replaced, Honda waived all charges as a goodwill gesture, no quarrelling at all, the car had a full Honda service record, Honda and Toyota are well known for giving the owner the benefit of the doubt and goodwill, when warranty claims are made, not something I found with Ford, a warranty claim for the notorious starter motor of the Ford Mondeo, a high rate of failure part within 15,000 miles from new, and known to all.

 

[david1212]

To me bangers start at 15 years old. A lifespan of car is 20 years, rust is the killer

Even then my friends have 15 year old cars and I wouldn't call them bangers in the slightest, still very good cars and well maintained

A 10 year old car still has loads of life left in it and still retains value

The killer often is not rust but one of a major failure, deterioration of rubber/synthetic rubber/plastic components or a fault for which the cause can not be definitely identified and then rectified for a low cost. The latter will only happen more often with an ever increasing number of electrical / electronic items and an ICU (computer) that says 'fault' which is a MOT failure or 'no'. Even if the actual fix is low cost the workshop time for disassembly to access then reassemble & reprogram can be uneconomic.

Back in 2010 I had to make a decision either to spend on my 10 year old current car trusting that it would then run at least 3 more years with no further major expenditure or change it. I chose the latter route which from following the next MOT's proved wise. The next had one advisory on deteriorating suspension then the following one had several advisories on steering / suspension. There was not another. While the history after then of course is unknown the cost to replace all the steering / suspension is components is a reasonable reason for demise.

A work colleague has a 12 plate sub 100k miles car that now is developing faults, so far lowish cost to sort but he is planning to change it next year.

Around me there are numerous 10+ year old cars that look good. To me while fine as a second car or if only used locally once over 10 years even if a modest mileage using for long journeys & holidays becomes an increasing risk. Some breakdown / recovery services do not cover cars over 10 years old while others increase their premium.

 

[Snow1964]

Government has added more cars to the electric car grant, including two Fords that get £3750, all rest get £1500 grant (on versions priced upto £37,000)

Band 1 cars​

The maximum discount available for cars assessed as Band 1 is £3,750.
The eligible vehicles are:

• Ford E-Tourneo Courier
• Ford Puma Gen-E

Band 2 cars​

The maximum discount available for cars assessed as Band 2 is £1,500.
The eligible vehicles are:

• Citroën ë-C3 and Citroën ë-C3 Aircross
• Citroën ë-C4 and Citroën ë-C4 X
• Citroën ë-C5 Aircross
• Citroën ë-Berlingo
• Cupra Born
• DS DS3
• DS N°4
• Nissan Ariya
• Nissan Micra
• Peugeot E-208
• Peugeot E-2008
• Peugeot E-308
• Peugeot E-408
• Peugeot E-Rifter
• Renault 4
• Renault 5
• Renault Alpine A290
• Renault Megane
• Renault Scenic
• Vauxhall Astra Electric
• Vauxhall Combo Life Electric
• Vauxhall Corsa Electric
• Vauxhall Frontera Electric
• Vauxhall Grandland Electric
• Vauxhall Mokka Electric
• Volkswagen ID.3

Low-emission vehicles eligible for a plug-in grant

Check which electric (plug-in) and hybrid vans, trucks and motorbikes are available for a grant.

www.gov.uk

 

[jon0844]

The Puma is now cheaper than the hybrid, plus workout checking the finer details right now, the EV works out even cheaper because it comes with more features than the equivalent ICE model - which requires a higher spec variant (with higher price) to match the features.

I expect the new Nissan Leaf, which frankly should have been given a new name as it's nothing like the current or previous models, to qualify too given it's made in the UK. That's going to be quite some car from what I've seen so far - especially using the Google based software already used in recent Renault cars.

 

[cactustwirly]

The killer often is not rust but one of a major failure, deterioration of rubber/synthetic rubber/plastic components or a fault for which the cause can not be definitely identified and then rectified for a low cost. The latter will only happen more often with an ever increasing number of electrical / electronic items and an ICU (computer) that says 'fault' which is a MOT failure or 'no'. Even if the actual fix is low cost the workshop time for disassembly to access then reassemble & reprogram can be uneconomic.

Back in 2010 I had to make a decision either to spend on my 10 year old current car trusting that it would then run at least 3 more years with no further major expenditure or change it. I chose the latter route which from following the next MOT's proved wise. The next had one advisory on deteriorating suspension then the following one had several advisories on steering / suspension. There was not another. While the history after then of course is unknown the cost to replace all the steering / suspension is components is a reasonable reason for demise.

A work colleague has a 12 plate sub 100k miles car that now is developing faults, so far lowish cost to sort but he is planning to change it next year.

Around me there are numerous 10+ year old cars that look good. To me while fine as a second car or if only used locally once over 10 years even if a modest mileage using for long journeys & holidays becomes an increasing risk. Some breakdown / recovery services do not cover cars over 10 years old while others increase their premium.

Steering and suspension parts are not hugely expensive.
No one is going to spend thousands on a brand new car Vs a couple hundred on new springs or steering rack inner joints etc.
People have an irrational fear of 100k miles. Most modern cars will exceed this easily, I sold my 13 plate which had done over 100k and there wasn't anything wrong with it at all. I just wanted a change and was in the position to get a better car. I could have easily kept it for another 2 years without issues.

I still got really cheap breakdowns on it through Green Flag

 

[dcbwhaley]

I still got really cheap breakdowns on it through Green Flag

Toyota offer full rescue (home start etc) for £99 on my Yaris.
Serviced, rather efficiently, by the AA

 

[E27007]

Steering and suspension parts are not hugely expensive.
No one is going to spend thousands on a brand new car Vs a couple hundred on new springs or steering rack inner joints etc.
People have an irrational fear of 100k miles. Most modern cars will exceed this easily, I sold my 13 plate which had done over 100k and there wasn't anything wrong with it at all. I just wanted a change and was in the position to get a better car. I could have easily kept it for another 2 years without issues.

You are correct, 100,000 miles is not a death sentence for a vehicle from a good manufacturer, my employer were running a large fleet of IC Vauxhalls and IC Fords beyond 150,000 miles post-covid when new vehicles were in short supply
ZEVs are not immune to wear and tear of suspension and steering components , wheel bearings, void bushes etc, personally I'll stick with IC for an elderly vehicle, my 2006 Jazz still drives as new, fuel economy has not suffered, the Jazz tackles long journeys with aplomb ( six 200 mile trips last Christmas ) I harbour many doubts about the long-term utility of ZEVs beyond their mandated 8 year / degrade to 70% battery warranties

 

[trebor79]

You are correct, 100,000 miles is not a death sentence for a vehicle from a good manufacturer, my employer were running a large fleet of IC Vauxhalls and IC Fords beyond 150,000 miles post-covid when new vehicles were in short supply
ZEVs are not immune to wear and tear of suspension and steering components , wheel bearings, void bushes etc, personally I'll stick with IC for an elderly vehicle, my 2006 Jazz still drives as new, fuel economy has not suffered, the Jazz tackles long journeys with aplomb ( six 200 mile trips last Christmas ) I harbour many doubts about the long-term utility of ZEVs beyond their mandated 8 year / degrade to 70% battery warranties

I've only driven over vehicle past 100,000 miles. That was my last ICE car. By 85,000 miles the engine was literally worn out and only got through mot because my local garage fiddled the emissions test somehow. A litre of oil every 800 miles was expensive too!
I bought my Tesla at 24,000 miles. It's now approaching 90,000 miles and I expect it will go 200,000 without issue. Battery degradation occurs mostly in the first 18 months, and my experience has validated that, I have an app that tracks it, amongst other things. The step do around 40,000 miles is when Tesla changed the charging recommendations and I think fished with the battery management system. Anyway, total degradation in my ownership requests to roughly 9-12 miles of range which is insignificant. When we do repeat long journeys we still stop at the same places we were stopping when it was first in my ownership.

What specifically makes you think the batteries will suddenly become useless after the warranty period? It's becoming very clear that battery degradation just isn't an issue for all practical purposes.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I've only driven over vehicle past 100,000 miles. That was my last ICE car. By 85,000 miles the engine was literally worn out and only got through mot because my local garage fiddled the emissions test somehow. A litre of oil every 800 miles was expensive too!

That sounds like my first car: 1986 Rover SD1 and a definite "British Leyland Friday afternoon assembly"
Conversely, my last three ICE cars all happily exceeded 100k miles - the Saab 9-3 I had prior to my current car, didn't miss a beat at 150k miles and was traded in purely as my son no longer fitted in the back seats.
My current ICE car is at 90k miles and drives as smoothly as it did when I bought it nearly new.

 

[bspahh]

I've only driven over vehicle past 100,000 miles. That was my last ICE car. By 85,000 miles the engine was literally worn out and only got through mot because my local garage fiddled the emissions test somehow. A litre of oil every 800 miles was expensive too!

I have owned 8 cars since 1986. I sold the first two, and scrapped 3 at 140k, 140k and 220k miles. I part exchanged one after a year of reliability problems, and still have the other two (with 230k and 6k miles). I've bought three used cars when they had done ~60k miles. One was fine. The other two were lemons. The three that I got from relatives have been fine. One was brand new. The other is nearly new and its too soon to say if it has been a good buy.
I have learnt:

• Run your winners, cut your losses.
• Regular maintenance is a gamble. You spend a bit of money, and have a bit of hassle, in the hope that it saves you lots of money and a lot of hassle.
• If a car does not do what you need it to do (too big, too small, missing features etc), then change it.
• If there are minor annoyances or missing features, and you're going to own the car for a long time, then fix them. If you there are issues that you don't care about, ignore them.
• The resale value of a high mileage car is very low. If you can get one from someone that you trust, who is changing it for a good reason, and not because it needs expensive repairs, then that is a really good buy.
• There is a sweet spot, where the car has lost most of its value to depreciation, but it still runs well, without expensive repairs.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Around me there are numerous 10+ year old cars that look good. To me while fine as a second car or if only used locally once over 10 years even if a modest mileage using for long journeys & holidays becomes an increasing risk. Some breakdown / recovery services do not cover cars over 10 years old while others increase their premium.

I've literally never heard that from any of the major providers, and it seems a sure-fire way to lose business. My breakdown cover (with RAC) is included in my insurance policy, and pretty much everyone I know who has a car has a similar provision. In any case I seem to recall that the two main providers in the UK sold coverage to individuals not to the vehicles if you got your breakdown cover independent of your insurance. One of them even had "You're the member, not the car" as their advertising slogan.

Towing an EV is much more problematic than recovering in ICE vehicle in most cases, due to the weight and inability to freewheel. A smaller FWD ICE car can be towed by a Transit with a towing attachment, most EVs require a flatbed wagon.

 

[GusB]

Towing an EV is much more problematic than recovering in ICE vehicle in most cases, due to the weight and inability to freewheel. A smaller FWD ICE car can be towed by a Transit with a towing attachment, most EVs require a flatbed wagon.

Are we really at the point where the only remaining argument against EVs is that they're not as towable when they break down?!

I seem to recall that towing cars with automatic transmission can be tricky, so it's not always straightforward for ICE vehicles either. In any case, if there is a breakdown, the recovery company is likely to send the most suitable vehicle for the job. If you break down around here, you'll likely be rescued by a local contractor whose recovery vehicles are small chassis/cab trucks with ramps and and they pull the car off the road completely.

Clutching at straws?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Are we really at the point where the only remaining argument against EVs is that they're not as towable when they break down?!

I seem to recall that towing cars with automatic transmission can be tricky, so it's not always straightforward for ICE vehicles either. In any case, if there is a breakdown, the recovery company is likely to send the most suitable vehicle for the job. If you break down around here, you'll likely be rescued by a local contractor whose recovery vehicles are small chassis/cab trucks with ramps and and they pull the car off the road completely.

Clutching at straws?

No. I was replying to an (unsourced) post about how it's supposedly harder to get breakdown cover for older cars- so it was relevant to mention the issues with towing EVs. For the record I'm not an advocate for automatic gearboxes either.

Throughout this thread, nobody has convinced me that it's viable for the UK to switch to EVs entirely (which isn't specified in the thread title, but it's strongly implied) because we simply don't have the infrastructure or the political will to make it happen. The only way it'll happen is if those for whom EVs aren't a viable option (for whatever reason) are priced off the road entirely. Whilst such a prospect might be music to the ears of radical urbanists, it isn't really sensible in the real world

 

[ABen90]

There does seem to be some reticence from rural communities that EVs are not for them which I don’t understand. If you live rurally you may be half an hour from a petrol station but you’ll have electricity at your house. You’re probably also more likely to have a driveway. How much easier just to be able to plug in at home. With the range of cars now there is no need for anxiety about the scarcity of rural chargers as you will only use your own for the vast majority of daily journeys. Going on longer trips the motorway infrastructure is definitely getting there. EVs are definitely not just for city dwellers.

 

[thejuggler]

4 weeks with out hybrid, average 68mpg. 500 mile range.