New rail lines in Scotland

[GusB]

E Ren' imm'

What's this in English, please?

 

[Falcon1200]

What's this in English, please?

'East Renfrewshire immediately', I think, although the abbreviations do make the post difficult to read! Not to mention that the proposal, while interesting, will never happen, because of the cost and because Glasgow is the major destination for most passengers on the rail routes in the area.

 

[Dennyboy]

'East Renfrewshire immediately', I think, although the abbreviations do make the post difficult to read! Not to mention that the proposal, while interesting, will never happen, because of the cost and because Glasgow is the major destination for most passengers on the rail routes in the area.

I'm getting very confused. Are you saying there's no link to an East - West route to Edinburgh from EK?

Of course not, the same as Kilmarnock, and Barrhead, and Paisley don't have direct trains to Edinburgh. Motherwell does, several times a day, although I appreciate for most of the time, it's a change at Bellshill.

Fundamentally, there just isn't enough of a combination of capacity and demand, although, for the sake of understanding, could you draw a map of where your proposed line would go, and outline what your proposed services would be to use it, and their proposed stopping patterns, including where they go at the Lanarkshire and Edinburgh ends of the line. Once we have a proper understanding, it's a lot easier to say 'no, and here are the reasons why, but have you thought about this' instead of just saying it's not possible.

I've since begun drawing a clearer draft, also much 'watered down' from my initial EK-Kirky in that Coatbridge's rail-chord provides comparable connection to two upper Falkirk/Stirling corridors. Anyhow, please meanwhile find attached my illustration of an EK-spur.

 

[waverley47]

I've since begun drawing a clearer draft, also much 'watered down' from my initial EK-Kirky in that Coatbridge's rail-chord provides comparable connection to two upper Falkirk/Stirling corridors. Anyhow, please meanwhile find attached my illustration of an EK-spur.

Right, that's a lot of crayon, and that line is going to cost an absolute bomb. Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch are best served by Bishopbriggs, Lenzie and Croy, and have 2tph or 4tph into Queen Street, with journey times of less than fifteen minutes. At that point, is infinitely quicker to just walk to Central and get a train south from there.

There is already a line down the east of Glasgow, from Cumbernauld (linking with the services to Falkirk and Queen Street) through Coatbridge (a short walk to the Airdrie-Bathgate line) and Whifflet (interchange with the Carmyle line) to Motherwell (interchange with services south, and the Argyll line)

That line supports 1tph currently, and there may be an argument for doubling that, but that's a different issue.

For your new line, you'd be building a brand new alignment from the Cumbernauld line, weaving between the houses and vaguely down the M73, across the Clyde to Newton and down to East Kilbride. Crucially, unless you want to compulsorily purchase half of Kirkwood and Uddingston, you have to build it along the alignment that goes between these built up areas, which means you don't serve any existing stations, and instead you serve a whole load of fields, which means there's nobody within walking distance of your stations, and nobody is going to use it.

I just do not believe that in any universe, the potential demand for such a route would ever support such a business case.

 

[Dennyboy]

Right, that's a lot of crayon, and that line is going to cost an absolute bomb. Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch are best served by Bishopbriggs, Lenzie and Croy, and have 2tph or 4tph into Queen Street, with journey times of less than fifteen minutes. At that point, is infinitely quicker to just walk to Central and get a train south from there.

There is already a line down the east of Glasgow, from Cumbernauld (linking with the services to Falkirk and Queen Street) through Coatbridge (a short walk to the Airdrie-Bathgate line) and Whifflet (interchange with the Carmyle line) to Motherwell (interchange with services south, and the Argyll line)

That line supports 1tph currently, and there may be an argument for doubling that, but that's a different issue.

For your new line, you'd be building a brand new alignment from the Cumbernauld line, weaving between the houses and vaguely down the M73, across the Clyde to Newton and down to East Kilbride. Crucially, unless you want to compulsorily purchase half of Kirkwood and Uddingston, you have to build it along the alignment that goes between these built up areas, which means you don't serve any existing stations, and instead you serve a whole load of fields, which means there's nobody within walking distance of your stations, and nobody is going to use it.

I just do not believe that in any universe, the potential demand for such a route would ever support such a business case.

Yeah, excuse my past detail oversight. I see where you're coming from in that Coatbridge Central provides for connectivity (eg a rail-chord) to N-S movements from the Baillieston/Bargeddie line. In hindsight I'd still advocate a 4.033km/2.5mile East Kilbride/Eastwood spur to the WCML. East of Mossend, connections could be made between E-W & N-S via a Holytown change of trains.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jul 2025 ==

Even Hawick is stretching it - the previous significant township is Newtown St Boswells which is about 15 miles away. Hawick (and Selkirk) currently have a half-hourly bus to Galashiels which a train would barely compete with.

If the map is a guide, that would involvep a fair bit of new build.

IF the Alloa-Dunfermline line ever gets reopened then a reinstatement of South Alloa's/Throsk's bridge (poss' fixed ie non-opening) may create viable cross-Forth services. Gone would be reliance Queensferry or Stirling detours.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2025 ==

The Herald have recently done a series of articles about Scotland's Railways and published an article by rail engineer and YouTuber Gareth Dennis with his view on where new rail lines in Scotland could/should be in the future.

View attachment 174304

Reimagining Scotland’s railways from the Highlands to the Scottish Borders

Rail expert Gareth Dennis reimagines the future of Scottish railways. Here is how it could look from the Highlands to the Scottish Borders.

www.heraldscotland.com

He also did a video going into more detail on these proposals:

Certainly they are ambitious proposals, however I'd be surprised to see any of them built (certainly in the next 25 years) with perhaps the exceptions of possibly a line out to Fraserburgh and an extension of the Borders Railway to Hawick.

Has consideration ever been given to creating a rail-chord at Ayrs' Mauchline Junction? This wouldn't only connect Ayr to Kilmarnock but to routes beyond the latter eg Stewarton, Barrhead, Pollokshaws West etc. Even Mauchline's 'much campaigned for' station would facilitate making train-connections.

 

[Bill57p9]

Has consideration ever been given to creating a rail-chord at Ayrs' Mauchline Junction? This wouldn't only connect Ayr to Kilmarnock but to routes beyond the latter eg Stewarton, Barrhead, Pollokshaws West etc. Even Mauchline's 'much campaigned for' station would facilitate making train-connections.

I am slightly confused by what you are suggesting here.
There are already direct trains from Ayr (Girvan and Stranraer) to Kilmarnock, Stewarton and Barrhead. They leave the Ayrshire coast route at Barrassie towards Kilmarnock where they reverse.

I suspect you are thinking of the Annbank route, which leaves the Ayrshire Coast at Newton Junction, originally a full triangle but now with only a north facing chord remaining, and joins the GSW just north of Mauchline, only facing south.

 

[jeffinabox]

Fraserburgh and Peterhead now 'strongest candidates in Scotland' for new rail links

Campaigners say it’s more important than ever to reverse historic railway cuts in north Aberdeenshire - ahead of a major energy conference.

www.pressandjournal.co.uk

A Scottish Government spokesperson said: “The transport secretary is keen to continue a discussion on this opportunity and has asked Transport Scotland to support an additional piece of work.”

Anyone know what this 'additional piece of work' is?

 

[AlastairFraser]

Fraserburgh and Peterhead now 'strongest candidates in Scotland' for new rail links

Campaigners say it’s more important than ever to reverse historic railway cuts in north Aberdeenshire - ahead of a major energy conference.

www.pressandjournal.co.uk

A Scottish Government spokesperson said: “The transport secretary is keen to continue a discussion on this opportunity and has asked Transport Scotland to support an additional piece of work.”

Anyone know what this 'additional piece of work' is?

Perhaps additional feasibility study stages?

 

[mcmad]

almost certainly more studies to kick the can down the road as they're broke

 

[MadMac]

Fraserburgh and Peterhead now 'strongest candidates in Scotland' for new rail links

Campaigners say it’s more important than ever to reverse historic railway cuts in north Aberdeenshire - ahead of a major energy conference.

www.pressandjournal.co.uk

A Scottish Government spokesperson said: “The transport secretary is keen to continue a discussion on this opportunity and has asked Transport Scotland to support an additional piece of work.”

Anyone know what this 'additional piece of work' is?

Right out of the Sir Humphrey Appleby playbook there…..

 

[jeffinabox]

The lost line: Clamour to re-open key Scots rail link amidst depopulation row

Calls are being made to re-open a railway line shut sixty years ago as concerns grow that transport links in Dumfries and Galloway have become a key…

www.heraldscotland.com

For those interested, a recent article in the Herald about calls to reopen the Dumfries to Stranraer line.

 

[D6130]

The lost line: Clamour to re-open key Scots rail link amidst depopulation row

Calls are being made to re-open a railway line shut sixty years ago as concerns grow that transport links in Dumfries and Galloway have become a key…

www.heraldscotland.com

For those interested, a recent article in the Herald about calls to reopen the Dumfries to Stranraer line.

Behind a pay wall unfortunately.

 

[Morayshire]

Behind a pay wall unfortunately.

Article text below c/o Firefox and Noscript

Calls are being made to re-open a railway line shut 60 years ago as concerns grow that transport links in Dumfries and Galloway have become a key cause of depopulation.

The Herald has revealed that the area, which has one of the oldest communities in the country, is facing a depopulation 'curse' with a flux of people equivalent to the population of Stranraer expected to vanish by 2043.

According to national records, the population of Dumfries and Galloway, one of the largest local authority regions in Scotland, has already fallen by 3,630 (2.42%) in the ten years to mid-2024 from 149,490 to 145,860.

And the last projections of the National Records of Scotland predict a further drop in the numbers in the community to below the 140,000 mark (136,286) for the first time.

The Just Transition Commission, formed to provide independent advice to Scottish Ministers on the challenges related to meeting a net-zero economy target by 2045 said that quality transport links for the region, particularly rail, was "constraining" the region in making the most of the economic opportunities associated with the climate transition and "encourage young people to leave in order to seek employment opportunities elsewhere, worsening the risk of depopulation".

Campaigners are urging government to re-open the 73-mile (120km) Stranraer to Dumfries line shut on 14 June 1965 - one of numerous victims of Beeching cuts to routes deemed no longer economically viable.

The reopening of the Borders Railway between Tweedbank and Edinburgh has fuelled hope that a similar project can be established.
The region’s poor transport connectivity - especially to the Cairnryan ferry terminal, which replaced Stranraer as the main Northern Ireland gateway in 2011 - has added further fuel to demands for investment

Railfuture Scotland, a longstanding and influential transport think tank, says the Dumfries to Stranraer rail link should return to connect the east and west of the region, enabling the transfer of all the Ireland-bound lorries "thundering along the A75 to a faster, more efficient and environmentally-friendly mode of transport".

Jane Ann Liston, secretary of the think tank said: "For the sake of the economy and well-being of the south-west, restoration of the Galloway line is long overdue and is the only rational way to deal with the excessive traffic on the A75. Anything else would be flying in the face of all current thinking on how to tackle climate change."

The British Regional Transport Association, a voluntary, membership-based public transport improvement association said it wants to see the re-opening process for the opening of a Dumfries to Stranraer rail link coupled with a new link to Kirkcudbright.

Richard Pill of the BRTA said the strategic rail link would boost employment and regeneration in the places that it served.

"It would cut the volumes of traffic – people and goods along the A75 corridor and give a direct rail alternative for optimal use," he said.

"There are very real challenges, practical, cost and political will, but a rail alternative is needed and a rail presence will only give people and businesses more options."

BRTA has called on councils, agencies, the Scottish Government and public to get behind the idea and support it all the way to delivery.

It has now created a forum based at Dumfries to take the railway proposition forward.

The echoes of steam engines once reverberated across the countryside thanks to the railway line which took travellers on a journey through the rolling hills and rugged coastlines of the area.

A vital artery connecting rural communities to the wider UK network, it was once more than just a transport route, it was a lifeline for trade, travel, and regional identity.

The Dumfries to Stranraer line was part of a broader network developed in the mid-19th century to connect the agricultural heartlands of Galloway with the rest of Scotland and Northern Ireland.

The Castle Douglas and Dumfries Railway opened in 1859, linking Dumfries to Castle Douglas.

From there, the Portpatrick and Wigtownshire Joint Railway extended westward to Stranraer and Portpatrick, completing the route by the early 1860s.

Together, these lines formed the Port Road - which linked Dumfries, via Castle Douglas, with the port towns of Portpatrick and Stranraer and was a strategic route for mail, passengers, and freight traveling between England and Ireland. Stranraer’s development as a ferry port was driven by the Caledonian Railway, which leased the line and invested in infrastructure to support long-distance traffic.

Despite its strategic importance, the line struggled financially.

By the 1960s, increased car ownership and competition from road freight made it vulnerable and the final blow came with the Beeching Report of 1963, which recommended widespread closures of underused railways.

Richard Pill said the rail link would boost employment (Image: BRTA) The Dumfries to Stranraer line was closed to passengers on June 14, 1965, as part of the Beeching cuts. A short freight-only section between Dumfries and Cargenbridge remained operational until 1994, but was eventually mothballed.

Ms Liston supported extending any new line to the current Cairnryan ferry terminal would also bring back the convenient ‘rail & sail’ option for foot passengers, which she said vanished when Stranraer ceased to be the port, "and almost certainly caused more passengers to drive rather than walk on board".

She added: "A railway also requires a narrower corridor than does a dual carriageway, thus having less of an impact on the landscape and wildlife.

"Tourism has a long history in the region, which the restoration of a railway would also boost. Currently those wishing to visit attractions such as Wigtown Book Festival and the Galloway Dark Skies Park are hardly likely to travel by train due to the long distance of those destinations from a station.

"Even the Stranraer Oyster Festival is unlikely to be deemed suitable for access by train, given the extremely limited service to the erstwhile port.

"And there would be an enhanced opportunity to capitalise on the area’s literary history, as the Galloway line itself is the setting of the action in several novels, such as Richard Hannay evading his pursuers in The Thirty-Nine Steps, Lord Peter Wimsey trying to identify the Five Red Herrings and Inspector French investigating Sir John Magill’s Last Journey."

Reopening a Dumfries to Stranraer railway was one of a string of options on the table for the future of transport in south west Scotland in 2019 as part of a strategic transport review, but so far it has not been taken forward.

In 2022, transport minister Jenny Gilruth confirmed that the line would not be part of the final investment recommendations. The decision was based on cost, environmental concerns, and a shift in focus toward decarbonisation and urban connectivity.

Transport Scotland said the rail link was "not expected to provide value for money".

A spokesman said there was a recommendation which includes measures to "improve access to Stranraer and ports at Cairnryan; to encourage greater use of public transport and support wider town regeneration proposals". It also included consideration for a review of the upgrade or relocation of Stranraer rail station.

 

[Killingworth]

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Get out OS map, look at distance involved, see how old railway trackbed has been utilised to improve the A75 and realise how much work is needed.

Imagine the cost.

Drive from Carlisle to Stranraer and see how far it is - and appreciate how little other traffic you'll see for most of it at most times of day.

Consider a declining population will reduce demand for a railway, built no sooner than 2040-50.

Boris Johnson was in favour. Case closed!

Make a few more improvements to the A75 at a fraction of the cost and far more useful.

 

[D6130]

Article text below c/o Firefox and Noscript

Many thanks!

 

[Dennyboy]

The lost line: Clamour to re-open key Scots rail link amidst depopulation row

Calls are being made to re-open a railway line shut sixty years ago as concerns grow that transport links in Dumfries and Galloway have become a key…

www.heraldscotland.com

For those interested, a recent article in the Herald about calls to reopen the Dumfries to Stranraer line.

Further pressure to have this rail-link reinstated is 'music to my ears'.

 

[Bald Rick]

Further pressure to have this rail-link reinstated is 'music to my ears'.

But that music is the theme tune to the “Benny Hill Show”

 

[daodao]

When will campaigners to open rail lines realise that proposals for long routes across lightly populated rural areas are completely futile? The only proposals that are realistic and worthy of consideration are shorter routes into major cities (in Scotland only Edinburgh and Glasgow) from their commuter catchment zones.

 

[Killingworth]

When will campaigners to open rail lines realise that proposals for long routes across lightly populated rural areas are completely futile? The only proposals that are realistic and worthy of consideration are shorter routes into major cities (in Scotland only Edinburgh and Glasgow) from their commuter catchment zones.

The costs, complexity and contrasts of 2 recent success stories meeting those criteria must serve as a warning for any new routes - Elizabeth and Northumberland lines.

 

[Dennyboy]

How much scope is there for new urban railways around Edinburgh or Glasgow which wouldn't be better-served as tram or subway routes (e.g. maybe orbital routes south / west of Glasgow)?

Only 4.023km/2.5miles of track would be needed to better connect East Kilbride, Busby & Clarkston to Edinburgh, W Lothian, S Lanarks' & N Lanarks'. Rather than simply terminate EK's extension at Newton or Uddingston, those 2 towns could be served by a suburban-like circular service linking a multitude of Lanarks' towns. This would tolerate periodic low, off-peak patronage between EK & a WCML/E'burgh chord.

 

[daodao]

Only 4.023km/2.5miles of track would be needed to better connect East Kilbride, Busby & Clarkston to Edinburgh, W Lothian, S Lanarks' & N Lanarks'. Rather than simply terminate EK's extension at Newton or Uddingston, those 2 towns could be served by a suburban-like circular service linking a multitude of Lanarks' towns. This would tolerate periodic low, off-peak patronage between EK & a WCML/E'burgh chord.

Suburban circular services are rarely if ever likely to generate sufficient patronage to warrant light rail, yet alone heavy rail. It is only worth considering new radial lines from the commuter catchment zones of Edinburgh and Glasgow into their respective city centres. East Kilbride is part of the Glasgow conurbation, not Edinburgh, and already has a newly electrified rail line into its nearby metropolis.

 

[Dennyboy]

If we're proposing big new lines I'm surprised a new Edinburgh-Perth line via Kinross isn't proposed. The rail route is very indirect and slower than the bus, and it would improve intercity connections for Dunfermline.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Feb 2025 ==

Additionally if we're creating new lines along the lines of the OP, a new fast line via Forfar and Brechin could speed up intercity journeys and put the two towns on the railway map.

There have been less feasible reopenings but given the M90 motorway utilises part of the former rail route a new alignment would be required. Again, by no means far-fetched.

 

[JKF]

How come Peebles never gets proposed in lists like this? That’s a reasonable sized town with a route not unlike the one built to Tweedbank. Not saying it would be feasible, just curious why it doesn’t at least appear on wish lists like this ahead of nonsense like Fort William to Inverness.

 

[najaB]

How come Peebles never gets proposed in lists like this? That’s a reasonable sized town with a route not unlike the one built to Tweedbank. Not saying it would be feasible, just curious why it doesn’t at least appear on wish lists like this ahead of nonsense like Fort William to Inverness.

How would it be served? A separate line from Edinburgh or with a reversal at Galashiels? Looking at old maps it seems it was previously served by a line that branched off at Eskbank.

 

[Millisle]

Peebles is defeated by geography. Any line to Peebles would at considerable length just serve Peebles as @najaB points out. Peebleshire, along with Kirkcudbrightshire, remains a historic mainland Scottish county guaranteed never to see another train. It is interesting to note the line was closed before Beeching.

 

[stevieinselby]

(Moved from Re-opening rail line to St Andrews rejected by Scottish Government)

Regardless of population density, as just over 5 miles of new railway to St Andrews cannot be justified, I cannot see how 38 miles from Dyce to Peterhead is ever going to be affordable.

Justifiable and affordable are different concepts.
A rail link to St Andrews is not going to be justifiable because the benefits it would bring are small – its transport needs are well met by the existing service from Leuchars and connecting bus.
A potential line to Ellon and Fraserburgh and/or Peterhead is a different kettle of fish, because a rail line would offer a significantly better service than the current bus service from Aberdeen, which takes 75 minutes to Peterhead and 90 minutes to Fraserburgh.

Tweedbank to Carlisle may well be a non-starter but surely there must be quite a good case for extending from Tweedbank to Hawick?

Hawick is a small town of 13,500 people, which isn't much for a terminus. Even if you could get past the trackbed being heavily built on through Melrose and Newtown St Boswells, you're still looking at a journey time of 25–30 minutes from Galashiels to Hawick – compared with a 35 minute bus journey running every 30 minutes. I would rather spend the money on improving bus links from Galashiels/Tweedbank to Selkirk/Hawick, Melrose/St Boswells and potentially the wider area.

This will no doubt be an unpopular opinion, but the railway is a crucial part of the UK infrastructure, and should not be run for profit.

There are many many reasons why a rail link to St Andrews isn't practical or possible, but all this talk of "cost benefit analysis" and the line "washing its face to pay for itself" are arguments which should be assigned to the scrapheap.

Nobody expects schools or hospitals to be "profitably viable"

There's a false dichotomy there.
I agree that we should be prepared to run the railways as a public service and not expect new lines to be profitable.
But I also believe that we should consider the economic case and the cost/benefit analysis.
The parameters of a CBA can be adjusted according to the political priorities of the country, to put a greater value on the wider benefits accrued. We need to have some way of determining the value of a proposal – the value in the widest sense – to make sure that we are spending money where it is most needed, and not subject to whichever pressure group shouts loudest or a particular politician's pet project.

 

[Killingworth]

How come Peebles never gets proposed in lists like this? That’s a reasonable sized town with a route not unlike the one built to Tweedbank. Not saying it would be feasible, just curious why it doesn’t at least appear on wish lists like this ahead of nonsense like Fort William to Inverness.

It never gets proposed because it was a separate line from Edinburgh to Galashiels that closed in 1962. A fairly quick look at the OS map will show how much track would have to be rebuilt, let alone totally realigned, to serve a town of less than 9,000.

There's interesting information about the original line on Wikipedia at; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peebles_Railway

Trouble is that virtually any line that's been closed for over 50 years is beyond economic restoration. The world has moved on too far.

 

[styles]

Hawick is a small town of 13,500 people, which isn't much for a terminus.

That's about 7x the population of Tweedbank which is the current terminus!

Even if you could get past the trackbed being heavily built on through Melrose and Newtown St Boswells, you're still looking at a journey time of 25–30 minutes from Galashiels to Hawick – compared with a 35 minute bus journey running every 30 minutes. I would rather spend the money on improving bus links from Galashiels/Tweedbank to Selkirk/Hawick, Melrose/St Boswells and potentially the wider area.

Yes I suspect this is why extending to Hawick or further is unlikely to happen. Presumably once the cost benefit analysis comes out of the report, it'll be decided not to bother.

That said, I think the line would be popular. If others are like me, I'd be happy to sit on a train for an hour rather than a bus for half an hour then a train for half an hour. Mentally it just feels like an easier journey.

There's a false dichotomy there.
I agree that we should be prepared to run the railways as a public service and not expect new lines to be profitable.
But I also believe that we should consider the economic case and the cost/benefit analysis.
The parameters of a CBA can be adjusted according to the political priorities of the country, to put a greater value on the wider benefits accrued. We need to have some way of determining the value of a proposal – the value in the widest sense – to make sure that we are spending money where it is most needed, and not subject to whichever pressure group shouts loudest or a particular politician's pet project.

Well, quite.

While I like the idea of a direct service to Carlisle, I can't see the cost benefit of it checking out personally.

 

[najaB]

That's about 7x the population of Tweedbank which is the current terminus!

Operationally Tweedbank is the terminus, but only because there wasn't enough room in Galashiels town centre. Once they got outside the town, it made sense to continue to Tweedbank and terminate there.

 

[styles]

Operationally Tweedbank is the terminus, but only because there wasn't enough room in Galashiels town centre. Once they got outside the town, it made sense to continue to Tweedbank and terminate there.

Hawick also has a higher population than Galashiels (albeit not by much).