Passengers told to disembark due skipping stops but train then called?

[Par]

This evening I was travelling on 1E74, the 1824 Chester to Leeds service, with a destination of Rochdale. Due to some commotion on the platform at Warrington Bank Quay, we were held outside the station for a good 10+ minutes. Thereafter the train was obviously running late and an announcement was made onboard (and via the onboard screens) on the approach to Manchester Victoria that the train would not be calling at either Rochdale (my destination) or Todmorden.

Disembarking at Victoria the PID on the platform showed next stop Hebden Bridge (as it would based on the revised calling pattern).

I joined a later Man Vic to Leeds service arriving at Rochdale about 40 late, so a delay repay has gone in and a complimentary ticket will be making its way to me in due course. I note however that on RTT (see below) it appears that the train did in fact call at Todmorden? My query would be how would passengers validate their delay repay claim in this scenario if industry systems show the Todmorden call, but they were in fact obliged to alight at Man Vic?

 

[Bletchleyite]

RTT doesn't always get this correct, it depends if it was correctly entered in the relevant systems.

 

[yorkie]

The train did not call at Rochdale or Todmorden.

If you bought your ticket from the forum's ticketing site, your booking confirmation would have a link to this page:

Chester to Leeds on 27/08/2025 | Train Timetable

Station​	Platform​	Arrive​	Depart​	Arrive​	Depart​	Notes​
	Chester	6​		18:24		18:24
	Frodsham	2​	18:35	18:36	18:35	18:36
	Runcorn East	2​	18:40	18:40	18:40	18:41
	Warrington Bank Quay	4​	18:49	18:49	19:07	19:09	20 mins late.
	Earlestown	4​	18:57	18:57	19:16	19:17	20 mins late.
	Newton Le Willows	1​	19:00	19:00	19:19	19:20	20 mins late.
	Manchester Victoria	5​	19:18	19:22	19:35	19:39	17 mins late.
	Rochdale	1​	19:34	19:35	Cancelled​
	Todmorden	2​	19:44	19:44	Cancelled​	The ticket office is currently closed at Todmorden station.
	Hebden Bridge	2​	19:49	19:50	20:03	20:05	15 mins late.
	Mytholmroyd	2​	19:52	19:53	20:07	20:09	16 mins late.
	Sowerby Bridge	2​	19:57	19:58	20:12	20:14	16 mins late.
	Halifax	2​	20:04	20:05	20:19	20:20	15 mins late.
	Low Moor	​	20:11	20:11	20:25	20:27	16 mins late.
	Bradford Interchange	4​	20:18	20:21	20:34	20:37	16 mins late.
	New Pudsey	2​	20:29	20:29	20:44	20:45	16 mins late.
	Bramley (West Yorks)	2​	20:32	20:33	20:48	20:49	16 mins late.
	Leeds	​	20:42		20:57		15 mins late.

(You may want to amend the thread title)

 

[BeijingDave]

Any idea what the commotion on the platform at WBQ was?

It's my local station but I haven't heard anything.

 

[geoffk]

As this is my former home area, I wonder on what basis the two stations selected to be omitted were chosen. For example, Mytholmroyd could have been chosen as it's very close to Hebden Bridge and fewer passengers would have been affected. It seems that just two minutes were saved.

 

[Par]

Any idea what the commotion on the platform at WBQ was?

It's my local station but I haven't heard anything.

The announcement from the train manager was a bit vague, but “disruptive passenger“ was mentioned.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2025 ==

As this is my former home area, I wonder on what basis the two stations selected to be omitted were chosen. For example, Mytholmroyd could have been chosen as it's very close to Hebden Bridge and fewer passengers would have been affected. It seems that just two minutes were saved.

Presumably because pretty much all services on the Calder Valley call at Rochdale and Todmorden, removing those would means a relatively short wait compared to skipping Mytholmroyd which has fewer calls?

 

[Cell2025]

As this is my former home area, I wonder on what basis the two stations selected to be omitted were chosen. For example, Mytholmroyd could have been chosen as it's very close to Hebden Bridge and fewer passengers would have been affected. It seems that just two minutes were saved.

Presumably there are fewer trains that stop there compared to Rochdale and Todmorden (where all of the trains on that route stop). So a case of making more people change for less time rather than inconveniencing a few for a longer time.

Also the same applies for those getting on trains at those stations, not just those getting off.

 

[saismee]

The announcement from the train manager was a bit vague, but “disruptive passenger“ was mentioned.

Sometimes they are vague on purpose to prevent people from panicking or feeling unsafe. I've personally seen weapons be announced as signal faults or just simplified to "an aggressive passenger" if people question the police presence.

 

[jamiearmley]

As this is my former home area, I wonder on what basis the two stations selected to be omitted were chosen. For example, Mytholmroyd could have been chosen as it's very close to Hebden Bridge and fewer passengers would have been affected. It seems that just two minutes were saved.

The logic here is that the 19:36 MCV LDS (from Wigan) would collect at Rochdale (RCD) and Todmorden (TOD) with passengers for Halifax Bradford etc changing at Hebden. The 1941 MCV RCD would take local passengers as well. Passengers already on the stations would see the delay to their particular service and jump on the 18:57 MCV LDS as it came through also.

Far better to skip stops at stations which have a alternative option within minutes, rather than stations which have a sparser service. It also helps maintain customer connections for those already on the train - although not calling at RCD and TOD only saved a further 2 minutes, the time penalty for actually making the calls would likely have been greater than that, with knock on effects to the services behind.

 

[Kite159]

Bravo Northern for skipping two of the busiest stops to save all a minute!
(And hence pushing those customers onto the following train which could have already been busy as it was the stopping service)

 

[Par]

What I found disappointing from the customer perspective was the lack of information provided from the Northern TM about ongoing connections for those forced to alight at Victoria.

I could see that there was two options. The late running 2J25 Clitheroe - Rochdale, which should have left Vic at 1941, but was in fact running 10 down, or 1J28 Man Vic - Leeds at 19.57, which was already stabled in P1. I opted for 1J28, which ultimately arrived late at Rochdale, presumably slowed by the late running 2J25 stopper ahead of it?

If I could find all this information on my phone easily, I’m pretty such the Northern TM could have done similar and provided passengers with information?

I had to advise an elderly couple on what to do and where to go and they didn’t have an inkling about DR either, for which they are now entitled to two complimentary tickets.

Pretty poor from Northern all round I’d say.

 

[Falcon1200]

Bravo Northern for skipping two of the busiest stops to save all a minute!

Having made decisions on missing stops myself, albeit for a different area, I would have expected a train to make up more than 2 minutes in such circumstances; Perhaps Northern Trains Control did too?

 

[GordonT]

Pretty poor from Northern all round I’d say.

Sadly a familiar refrain from many of its users.

 

[Spartacus]

Having made decisions on missing stops myself, albeit for a different area, I would have expected a train to make up more than 2 minutes in such circumstances; Perhaps Northern Trains Control did too?

There's a couple of ESRs networked for 2 and 1 minutes respectively so in reality it was a 5 minute saving against what it would probably have done otherwise.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2025 ==

Bravo Northern for skipping two of the busiest stops to save all a minute!
(And hence pushing those customers onto the following train which could have already been busy as it was the stopping service)

The flip side of that is that by putting in the fails to stops it prevented the already late train from becoming full of passengers who would otherwise have caught the stopper to Rochdale & Tod

 

[Deepgreen]

Bravo Northern for skipping two of the busiest stops to save all a minute!
(And hence pushing those customers onto the following train which could have already been busy as it was the stopping service)

While I hate stop-skipping (especially when only 10 late) it will save far more than one minute to miss out two station stops - I would say nearer five). Not OK, though.

 

[Kite159]

..

While I hate stop-skipping (especially when only 10 late) it will save far more than one minute to miss out two station stops - I would say nearer five). Not OK, though.

At least it got ahead of the stopper from Victoria and didn't end up running 'nonstop' behind said stopper like I've had happen on late running Airport - Blackpool trains which get announced as skipping Heald Green only to end up getting dispatched after the stopper has gone so not stopping at Heald Green made no difference.

 

[30907]

RTT doesn't always get this correct, it depends if it was correctly entered in the relevant systems.

The time at TOD cannot be correct, as there's no way you could get from there to HBD in 3 min!
Yorkie has supplied correct information.

 

[yorkie]

They saved a lot more than "1 minute" or "2 minutes" as the train overtook the 1936 from MCV at Rochdale.

The 1936 from MCV only departed Rochdale a minute late as a result of being overtaken and arrived at Sowerby Bridge at 2027. I'm not sure of the headways there, but the counterfactual is that the 1936 would have got to SOW at 2026, with the delayed service arriving there perhaps around 2030. In reality, it arrived at 2013.

So, I'd argue that they actually saved approximately 17 minutes, certainly not 1 or 2.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Aug 2025 ==

Bravo Northern for skipping two of the busiest stops to save all a minute!
(And hence pushing those customers onto the following train which could have already been busy as it was the stopping service)

The following train to Rochdale would have been the 1941 stopper, which departed at 1952, and for Todmorden was the 1957, which is not a stopper.

Yes, it added a delay for Rochdale and Todmorden passengers, but for everyone else (including passengers boarding further along the line), it saved 17 minutes. It also avoided bunching; it would have been closely followed by the 1957 if it had been stuck behind the 1941 stopper.

It was the right decision.

 

[Par]

Yes, it added a delay for Rochdale and Todmorden passengers, but for everyone else (including passengers boarding further along the line), it saved 17 minutes. It also avoided bunching; it would have been closely followed by the 1957 if it had been stuck behind the 1941 stopper.

It was the right decision.

For operational expediency yes, but the manner in which was it was implemented and the communication (or rather lack of it) to affected passengers and their options was lamentable.

No advice provided for alternative services (of which there were two options for Rochdale) and no advice for Delay Repay, particularly given that complimentary tickets would be an option for all affected due to the 30 minute plus delay.

No excuse whatsoever as far as I am concerned for the TM not to be more proactive in this scenario.

 

[Tetchytyke]

No advice provided for alternative services (of which there were two options for Rochdale) and no advice for Delay Repay, particularly given that complimentary tickets would be an option for all affected due to the 30 minute plus delay.

That’s what the PIS at Victoria station is for.

As you’ve noted, some of the connections were also delayed. No doubt you’d also be complaining if the guard had told you to head for one train which was delayed and you could have caught another one which left on time.

I swear some people just like moaning for the sake of it.

 

[Par]

That’s what the PIS at Victoria station is for.

As you’ve noted, some of the connections were also delayed. No doubt you’d also be complaining if the guard had told you to head for one train which was delayed and you could have caught another one which left on time.

I swear some people just like moaning for the sake of it.

No, I knew exactly what my options were and no I’m not moaning for the sake of it.

The train arrived in P5 and I could either go to P6 for the delayed Clitheroe Rochdale service, or P1 for the next Leeds service.

There was an elderly couple on the train who had no idea what to do and the PIS that I saw on P5 only gave information on the next stops for the train we had disembarked from. I helped them with their options.

I’m not sure if there is a PIS on P5 that gives information on all subsequent departures? I know there is one on the main concourse but to view it you would need to climb and descend the overbridge and then (if you decided the earlier departing service from P6 was the one for you) re-trace your steps back over the overbridge if time permitted.

Not really a problem for those with no mobility issues, but not great if you do.

A simple onboard announcement to assist less savvy passengers is surely not too much to ask In these circumstances.

 

[Lewisham2221]

For operational expediency yes, but the manner in which was it was implemented and the communication (or rather lack of it) to affected passengers and their options was lamentable.

No advice provided for alternative services (of which there were two options for Rochdale) and no advice for Delay Repay, particularly given that complimentary tickets would be an option for all affected due to the 30 minute plus delay.

No excuse whatsoever as far as I am concerned for the TM not to be more proactive in this scenario.

How much notice were you given that the train wasn't going to stop at Rochdale/Todmorden?

In this kind of situation, it's not at all uncommon for the guard to only find out about the change at the last minute.

At that point, the priority is to ensure that everyone is aware that the train won't be stopping at those stations and that passengers for those stations get off at the next stop to avoid being over carried - especially when, as in this instance, Victoria is a large station with plenty of shelter, facilities and staff who will be able to provide that information.

 

[Tetchytyke]

A simple onboard announcement to assist less savvy passengers is surely not too much to ask In these circumstances.

Announcing a selection of alternative trains is not a simple announcement though. It’s information overload. It may well also be outdated information by the time you get to disembark the train a few minutes later- platform alterations are not uncommon at Manchester Victoria.

The only sensible message is to get off at Victoria and consult monitors or ask station staff for help.

There are monitors showing a list of departures at the bottom of the stairs on the island platform and on platform 6.

 

[Bantamzen]

Announcing a selection of alternative trains is not a simple announcement though. It’s information overload. It may well also be outdated information by the time you get to disembark the train a few minutes later- platform alterations are not uncommon at Manchester Victoria.

The only sensible message is to get off at Victoria and consult monitors or ask station staff for help.

There are monitors showing a list of departures at the bottom of the stairs on the island platform and on platform 6.

And as was seen at Victoria a couple of weeks ago, the screens can tell you one thing, the platform staff another, the crew another again. It's becoming a regular theme for me on my regular sorties across the Pennines, trains get canned but when you try to get a consistent message about what the best option going forward is it becomes a struggle. It's frustrating to say the least for someone who knows the resources to use, goodness knows how semi-regular and occasional passengers find it. Personally I've reached the point where I've pretty much stopped asking staff if I can work out an alternative route on a new ticket, I'll then seek a refund and argue my case with the TOCs. This isn't a reflection on the staff, but a lack of faith I have in them being given the right comms.

The thing is when things go pointy bits up, clear communication is critical for both staff and passengers, it's not an optional extra. If the comms lines start to fail, it becomes an additional problem, maybe even the major problem. This was exampled when the Calder Valley was blocked as above, the comms completely fell over, every member of staff had a different message, the boards where just confusing and the net result was people shunting between heavily populated platforms, and even being shunted on, off and back on to units. It was actually getting to the point where it was physically dangerous. I'm sorry to say it but this is where the rail industry in this country fails badly, and instead of making excuses needs to take a long hard look at how things are done and make improvements.

 

[43066]

And as was seen at Victoria a couple of weeks ago, the screens can tell you one thing, the platform staff another, the crew another again. It's becoming a regular theme for me on my regular sorties across the Pennines, trains get canned but when you try to get a consistent message about what the best option going forward is it becomes a struggle. It's frustrating to say the least for someone who knows the resources to use, goodness knows how semi-regular and occasional passengers find it. Personally I've reached the point where I've pretty much stopped asking staff if I can work out an alternative route on a new ticket, I'll then seek a refund and argue my case with the TOCs. This isn't a reflection on the staff, but a lack of faith I have in them being given the right comms.

The thing is when things go pointy bits up, clear communication is critical for both staff and passengers, it's not an optional extra. If the comms lines start to fail, it becomes an additional problem, maybe even the major problem. This was exampled when the Calder Valley was blocked as above, the comms completely fell over, every member of staff had a different message, the boards where just confusing and the net result was people shunting between heavily populated platforms, and even being shunted on, off and back on to units. It was actually getting to the point where it was physically dangerous. I'm sorry to say it but this is where the rail industry in this country fails badly, and instead of making excuses needs to take a long hard look at how things are done and make improvements.

Regarding your last sentence, can you point to some evidence in terms of passenger surveys etc.?

 

[jamiearmley]

Announcing a selection of alternative trains is not a simple announcement though. It’s information overload. It may well also be outdated information by the time you get to disembark the train a few minutes later- platform alterations are not uncommon at Manchester Victoria.

The only sensible message is to get off at Victoria and consult monitors or ask station staff for help.

There are monitors showing a list of departures at the bottom of the stairs on the island platform and on platform 6.

I'm not disagreeing with you, and yes, it is information overload which a lot of people cannot process, especially when they're already suddenly becoming concerned that the train that they are on is no longer calling at the stations they wanted to go to.

However, it takes seconds to announce

"This train will no longer be calling at Rochdale or Todmorden. Passengers for Rochdale should change at Manchester Victoria and board the 1941 Rochdale service from platform number X. Passengers for Todmorden should change at Manchester Victoria and make their way to platform X for the 1957 departure for Leeds. If this results in you arriving at your final destination more than 15 minutes late, please google Northern Delay Repay and fill out the online form to claim compensation. Remember that if you are delayed by more than 30 minutes, you're entitled to claim complementary tickets which are worth their weight in gold and I do recommend that you take up this option if it is available to you. Please accept my apologies for the disruption to your journeys this evening."

Many people won't be able to process that - and will ask at Manchester Victoria on arrival - but those that can, will - and not only will this help them, It will also reduce the burden on the staff at Manchester Victoria and give them a better chance of being able to help those that do need it.

It's basic, simple, easy - and should have been done.

 

[Bantamzen]

Regarding your last sentence, can you point to some evidence in terms of passenger surveys etc.?

I've not thought to gather evidence from passenger surveys, but thread after thread here as well as across social media demonstrate that time after time communications break down badly when things go wrong. These complete failures where on full display on Saturday 16th this month at Manchester Victoria, when different members of staff where offering different information at almost the same time, whilst the CIS was telling something completely different again. The net result was punters shuffling between platforms very busy platforms, being advised to get onto a train only immediately told to get off, before within a couple of minutes being told to get on. It's far from the first time and certainly won't be the last.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I'm not disagreeing with you, and yes, it is information overload which a lot of people cannot process, especially when they're already suddenly becoming concerned that the train that they are on is no longer calling at the stations they wanted to go to.

However, it takes seconds to announce

"This train will no longer be calling at Rochdale or Todmorden. Passengers for Rochdale should change at Manchester Victoria and board the 1941 Rochdale service from platform number X. Passengers for Todmorden should change at Manchester Victoria and make their way to platform X for the 1957 departure for Leeds. If this results in you arriving at your final destination more than 15 minutes late, please google Northern Delay Repay and fill out the online form to claim compensation. Remember that if you are delayed by more than 30 minutes, you're entitled to claim complementary tickets which are worth their weight in gold and I do recommend that you take up this option if it is available to you. Please accept my apologies for the disruption to your journeys this evening."

Many people won't be able to process that - and will ask at Manchester Victoria on arrival - but those that can, will - and not only will this help them, It will also reduce the burden on the staff at Manchester Victoria and give them a better chance of being able to help those that do need it.

It's basic, simple, easy - and should have been done.

That announcement takes almost a minute to read out, absolutely doesn't need to waffle on complimentary tickets being "worth their weight in gold" and doesn't place enough emphasis on the fact that any passenger for Rochdale or Todmorden need to get off at Victoria to avoid being over carried. Add in the time taken to look up those connections and you're easily looking at a few minutes. That's fine if you find out about the change just after leaving Newton-le-Willows, it's no good if you find out once you've already passed Eccles and need to make sure that people who thought they were going to be onboard for another 20 minutes are fully aware that they need to get ready to leave the train in the next 2 or 3 minutes.

 

[Kite159]

They saved a lot more than "1 minute" or "2 minutes" as the train overtook the 1936 from MCV at Rochdale.



It was the right decision.

As per the link you posted earlier on, departed Victoria 17 minutes late, arrived at Leeds 15 minutes late. Therefore it only regained 2 minutes,

And how can a train pass another at Rochdale due to the track layout?

 

[Lewisham2221]

As per the link you posted earlier on, departed Victoria 17 minutes late, arrived at Leeds 15 minutes late

It recovered 2 minutes.

It saved many more. Just the ability to continue through the stations without slowing, stopping, dwell time, acelerarating prevents additional minutes adding to the delay. Also, as pointed out above, by not stopping at Rochdale they managed to avoid being stuck behind a slower service and thus again prevented the delay from increasing further and/or causing delays to other services.