Research into procedure between driver and signaller for a short story

[Jack D]

Hi all,

I'm writing a short story in which a signaller encourages the driver of a goods train to pass a signal at danger in order to cause an accident. The story is in the same vain as Harold Pinter's play Victoria Station (which doesn't actually feature the station nor any trains which I was very disappointed to discover) I'm researching examples of conversations between drivers and signallers across the UK rail systems and what the correct procedure is for both sides.

Can anyone point me to some real life examples available online? The best example I've discovered is this humous exchange between train driver and signaller which I'm sure most users already know about.

Thanks in advance

Jack

 

[800001]

Hi all,

I'm writing a short story in which a signaller encourages the driver of a goods train to pass a signal at danger in order to cause an accident. The story is in the same vain as Harold Pinter's play Victoria Station (which doesn't actually feature the station nor any trains which I was very disappointed to discover) I'm researching examples of conversations between drivers and signallers across the UK rail systems and what the correct procedure is for both sides.

Can anyone point me to some real life examples available online? The best example I've discovered is this humous exchange between train driver and signaller which I'm sure most users already know about.

Thanks in advance

Jack

No Signaller will encourage a driver to pass a signal at danger to cause a collision.

A signaller will Instruct a driver to pass a signal at danger, due to a multitude of reasons in a safe manner.

Search Ben Elias on YouTube and there is a video of him been instructed to pass multiple signals at red due to signal cable theft.

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

It depends which era your story is set in as to how the conversation would be structured.
Up until around 20-25 years ago it was common for such exchanges to sound like a normal conversation, complete with slang and colloquialisms.
So "ey up cock, what's up wit' board?" "Aye mate, just go past it" wouldn't be unknown.
In more recent decades communication has been formalised with each party identifying themselves, signal numbers, phonetic alphabet etc- and rightly so, as it is much safer.

 

[zwk500]

Hi all,

I'm writing a short story in which a signaller encourages the driver of a goods train to pass a signal at danger in order to cause an accident. The story is in the same vain as Harold Pinter's play Victoria Station (which doesn't actually feature the station nor any trains which I was very disappointed to discover) I'm researching examples of conversations between drivers and signallers across the UK rail systems and what the correct procedure is for both sides.

Can anyone point me to some real life examples available online? The best example I've discovered is this humous exchange between train driver and signaller which I'm sure most users already know about.

Thanks in advance

Jack

For a more historical look, see this film from the LMS:

It shows the Absolute Block regulations and includes a train being cautioned for a cow on the line.

 

[Harpo]

No Signaller will encourage a driver to pass a signal at danger to cause a collision.

I could (but obviously won't) quote a real example of a signaller deliberately creating a SPAD trap. I've also known malicious signaller-on-signaller actions that have impinged on safety. Modern management techniques have made it vanishingly rare though.

 

[Horizon22]

No Signaller will encourage a driver to pass a signal at danger to cause a collision.

A signaller will Instruct a driver to pass a signal at danger, due to a multitude of reasons in a safe manner.

Search Ben Elias on YouTube and there is a video of him been instructed to pass multiple signals at red due to signal cable theft.

Of course not, but you would presume it is being done under creative licence and the signaller has an ulterior motive.

 

[dcsprior]

No Signaller will encourage a driver to pass a signal at danger to cause a collision.

But the OP has said that this is for a fictional story.

I have no idea what the OP is writing, but imagine for a second that in this story, the signaller's family are being held at gunpoint to force him to deliberately cause a collision. That's rather unlikely in real life, but wouldn't be out of place in a work of fiction.

 

[Krokodil]

No Signaller will encourage a driver to pass a signal at danger to cause a collision.

And no pilot would cut off fuel to both engines within seconds of takeoff. Except for that one who did...

 

[800001]

But the OP has said that this is for a fictional story.

I have no idea what the OP is writing, but imagine for a second that in this story, the signaller's family are being held at gunpoint to force him to deliberately cause a collision. That's rather unlikely in real life, but wouldn't be out of place in a work of fiction.

I know what he has said, I can read.
My reply is stating you are not going to find a signaller call as like how he asks(wants to write).

Plenty of signaller calls on YouTube to look at and research!

 

[Jack D]

I can confirm that it is a work of fiction and the signaller has sinister motives. The story is also set in the modern day.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Aug 2025 ==

I could (but obviously won't) quote a real example of a signaller deliberately creating a SPAD trap. I've also known malicious signaller-on-signaller actions that have impinged on safety. Modern management techniques have made it vanishingly rare though.

Oh, do tell!

 

[Horizon22]

I know what he has said, I can read.
My reply is stating you are not going to find a signaller call as like how he asks(wants to write).

Plenty of signaller calls on YouTube to look at and research!

I think it could be worked in as subterfuge on part of the signaller. Tells driver there’s a fault, authorisation to proceed, driver activates override and then…

It’s a pretty wild set of circumstances but as was most of ‘Nightsleeper’ and that had a prime time BBC slot.

 

[tumbledown]

There's a video posted by a driver of Emergency Special Working at

Wigan Disruption 20/8/25

Does anybody know the nature of the Signalling problem that is currently causing problems in/around Wigan Northwestern area at the moment? Looks like its going to be causing problems until 12:00 at the earliest so it must be something major that's happened. I know earlier it was even affecting...

www.railforums.co.uk

which gives some idea of the comms.

 

[Tetragon213]

No Signaller will encourage a driver to pass a signal at danger to cause a collision.

A signaller will Instruct a driver to pass a signal at danger, due to a multitude of reasons in a safe manner.

Search Ben Elias on YouTube and there is a video of him been instructed to pass multiple signals at red due to signal cable theft.

Wasn't Seer Green (as well as the 2nd Castlecary accident) caused by the bobby incorrectly letting another train pass a signal at danger? And wasn't that Greek accident recently down to someone incorrectly telling someone to ignore a Red?

There's also this little doozey from a while back.

Doesn't take a gigantic leap of imagination for a signalman to drop the mother of all clangers and give the authorisation incorrectly. Alternatively, never forget that a trusted member of staff, one Signalman Alan Frost, deliberately wrecked the Queens Own Highlanders at Conington out of immaturity.

 

[800001]

Wasn't Seer Green (as well as the 2nd Castlecary accident) caused by the bobby incorrectly letting another train pass a signal at danger? And wasn't that Greek accident recently down to someone incorrectly telling someone to ignore a Red?

There's also this little doozey from a while back.

That's incorrectly letting a train pass at danger. Not encouraging to pass at danger.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Aug 2025 ==

There's a video posted by a driver of Emergency Special Working at

Wigan Disruption 20/8/25

Does anybody know the nature of the Signalling problem that is currently causing problems in/around Wigan Northwestern area at the moment? Looks like its going to be causing problems until 12:00 at the earliest so it must be something major that's happened. I know earlier it was even affecting...

www.railforums.co.uk

which gives some idea of the comms.

This is the video I was referring to, very good to hear the call, certainly from a drivers perspective.

 

[Tetragon213]

That's incorrectly letting a train pass at danger. Not encouraging to pass at danger.

In which case, we also have Connington South to draw from, where I remain by my conviction that Alan Frost deliberately wrecked the Down Express. It's not a huge leap of imagination for a story to combine elements of Connington with Seer Green.

 

[Towers]

I can confirm that it is a work of fiction and the signaller has sinister motives. The story is also set in the modern day.

It’s worth noting that all calls between trains and signal boxes are recorded, which would obviously have an effect on the actions of a signaller behaving maliciously - e.g. a signaller wouldn’t get away with giving a driver an instruction and then denying it.

 

[edwin_m]

In which case, we also have Connington South to draw from, where I remain by my conviction that Alan Frost deliberately wrecked the Down Express. It's not a huge leap of imagination for a story to combine elements of Connington with Seer Green.

I was thinking of Connington South too. For those not familiar, https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=415

I am satisfied that this derailment was caused by the unlocking and movement of a pair of facing points at a time when a train was passing over them. The signalling equipment was in order and the points could only have been opened as a result of deliberate irregular actions on the part of Signalman Frost, who was alone in the signalbox at the time and thus solely responsible for the derailment.
...
NOTE: Signalman A. J. Frost was tried on charges of manslaughter and endangering the safety of railway passengers at the Huntingdon Autumn Assizes held at Nottingham in November 1968. After a trial lasting 11 days, Mr. Justice Fisher instructed the Jury to acquit Frost on the charges of manslaughter and sentenced him to two years imprisonment for unlawfully operating the signal and points mechanism of the Connington South signalbox so as to endanger persons being conveyed on a railway, on which charge Frost had changed his plea to Guilty.

This report also refers to https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=450, accident at Douglas Park in 1949.

There is no doubt that the derailment was caused by the points being moved in front of the train, either by Signalman Smith or with his knowledge, and for this he must be held fully responsible.

Neither of these particular accidents would have been possible with modern power signalling, although they might still be with some surviving mechanical interlockings. There are probably thousands of accident reports on this website of which only a handful are caused by malicious actions of rail staff. So it's a hugely rare event but not impossible.

 

[RGM654]

If a pilot can deliberately fly a plane full of children into a mountain, a signaller could maliciously authorise a driver to pass a signal at danger. The story will need to present a plausible scenario.

 

[66701GBRF]

I could (but obviously won't) quote a real example of a signaller deliberately creating a SPAD trap. I've also known malicious signaller-on-signaller actions that have impinged on safety. Modern management techniques have made it vanishingly rare though.

Why can’t you quote these incidents but not name the locations?

 

[Towers]

If a pilot can deliberately fly a plane full of children into a mountain, a signaller could maliciously authorise a driver to pass a signal at danger. The story will need to present a plausible scenario.

The crucial difference here of course is that in the aviation example the pilot intends to cause themself harm, and is unlikely ever to face any consequences (besides the obvious fatal ones). The scenario of a signaller deliberately causing an incident would result in potential harm to others but not to the signaller, and in this day and age would almost certainly result in the signaller’s culpability being identified - which the signaller would be fully aware of - and so any plausible storyline would need to consider that aspect.