What is a "planned" cancellation ?

[Loppylugs]

I looked on RTT this morning and lo and behold newly painted 66791 is working 6M26 Eastleigh-Mountsorrel. Activated at 04-20 hours a must to get. I pay for a ticket to Oxford only to be gutted by reading "Cancelled due to a planned cancellation by the operator". Is this another way of saying tee-hee we fooled you 'cos they certainly succeeded if that was their aim. Thanks GBRf.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

This is very common.

Paths are allocated for the benefit of freight/empty stock/driver trainer moves in between passenger services but this is no guarantee that said services will run. In addition, lots of "Q" paths are in the RTT system but often these don't run.

It would seem, gone is the excitement in bygone times when one could go to a station and see what turns up; all part of the fun back then...

 

[Harpo]

It would seem, gone is the excitement in bygone times when one could go to a station and see what turns up;

In times gone by, there were loads of places where you were guaranteed to see freight trains on even a short visit so I get that it might need more planning nowadays.

 

[JKF]

They had this reason stated for some of the cancellations of passenger services on the Severn Beach line last week, but this was because of planned engineering works on the Henbury line meaning freight paths had to go via Clifton and passenger trains were adjusted to accommodate this, which makes sense (although most of the freight didn’t run, which seems a bit off). They also used the ‘cancelled due to planned engineering works’ on some trains which was probably more appropriate.

 

[Tom]

This particular train was cancelled due to a PG reason (the P codes everyone talks about) rather than a PD (the P codes no-one talks about because it just means cancelled out of WTT in advance). But for freight this doesn't really mean a lot, simply that they planned to not run it before 10pm the day before.

 

[redkiterail]

So as a ex NR and TOC level 1 TDA I hope I do not come across as arrogant but in regards to this topic I have following to say:

• Realtraintimes uses the NR open source data feed and may not in terms of delay attribution removed the wrong code and replace with the new correct code where applicable
• Train running controllers where I was working would generate cancellations they are level 1 tda they have awareness and coded best fit
• PG as tom already mention is where NR and FOC/TOC agree the train is not running next day for what ever reason(this reason is not material to delay attribution)
• Now what could have happen is that the cancellation was processed before 22:00, the timetable for the next day gets upload to the trust/tops systems and this train gets activated at 04:20 someone at NR or GBRf control notices and informs the NR TRC who generates a pg cancellation which real train times picks up
• Control staff are to run trains and pardon the expression don't get care about enthusiasts over 70% of the staff and not railway or train enthusiasts they are just working for a pay check in a industry that gives them joy and progression so they don't go around screwing around enthusiasts
• Q paths are "run as required" and can be activated in very short notice they act as guarantee space for freight trains when running to time not to delay passenger trains Q paths do not require Very Short Term Planning which should be done 4 hours before booked departure certain routes have dedicated staff others TRCs have to do it and the whole path should be validate not to cause delay
• The use of pg in the seven branch example is correct as this for TOCs as is the use of PE for freight trains. PE can be used for tocs as well its not a hard and fast rule.
• PD is system generated cancellation so its rarely used and I suspect that used for trust/top errors or delays in reaction to system generation cancellation that are direct delays

If you want to work out what a delay attribution code means the documents are open to the public and free to download on the link below
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/indus...erators/network-code/delay-attribution-board/
The main document is the delay attribution principles and rules its a weighty tome when it comes to use of pg c3.6 and page s8 will help

like the rule book you can get the wrong end of the stick I hope this post helps if you are after a particular locomotive or train especially freights better to wait for its booked departure time and see it has left. Trains running late even freight don't always stay the same lateness

NR Network Rail
TOC Train Operator Company
TDA Train Delay Attribution
TRC Train Running Controller

 

[Loppylugs]

So as a ex NR and TOC level 1 TDA I hope I do not come across as arrogant but in regards to this topic I have following to say:

• Realtraintimes uses the NR open source data feed and may not in terms of delay attribution removed the wrong code and replace with the new correct code where applicable
• Train running controllers where I was working would generate cancellations they are level 1 tda they have awareness and coded best fit
• PG as tom already mention is where NR and FOC/TOC agree the train is not running next day for what ever reason(this reason is not material to delay attribution)
• Now what could have happen is that the cancellation was processed before 22:00, the timetable for the next day gets upload to the trust/tops systems and this train gets activated at 04:20 someone at NR or GBRf control notices and informs the NR TRC who generates a pg cancellation which real train times picks up
• Control staff are to run trains and pardon the expression don't get care about enthusiasts over 70% of the staff and not railway or train enthusiasts they are just working for a pay check in a industry that gives them joy and progression so they don't go around screwing around enthusiasts
• Q paths are "run as required" and can be activated in very short notice they act as guarantee space for freight trains when running to time not to delay passenger trains Q paths do not require Very Short Term Planning which should be done 4 hours before booked departure certain routes have dedicated staff others TRCs have to do it and the whole path should be validate not to cause delay
• The use of pg in the seven branch example is correct as this for TOCs as is the use of PE for freight trains. PE can be used for tocs as well its not a hard and fast rule.
• PD is system generated cancellation so its rarely used and I suspect that used for trust/top errors or delays in reaction to system generation cancellation that are direct delays

If you want to work out what a delay attribution code means the documents are open to the public and free to download on the link below
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/indus...erators/network-code/delay-attribution-board/
The main document is the delay attribution principles and rules its a weighty tome when it comes to use of pg c3.6 and page s8 will help

like the rule book you can get the wrong end of the stick I hope this post helps if you are after a particular locomotive or train especially freights better to wait for its booked departure time and see it has left. Trains running late even freight don't always stay the same lateness

NR Network Rail
TOC Train Operator Company
TDA Train Delay Attribution
TRC Train Running Controller

Thank you for the explanations. The sarcastic remarks were more due to frustration than anything else as I have to leave home before the scheduled start time of the freight in order to see it en route. I did work on the railway at one time so do understand the operational problems.

 

[Horizon22]

They had this reason stated for some of the cancellations of passenger services on the Severn Beach line last week, but this was because of planned engineering works on the Henbury line meaning freight paths had to go via Clifton and passenger trains were adjusted to accommodate this, which makes sense (although most of the freight didn’t run, which seems a bit off). They also used the ‘cancelled due to planned engineering works’ on some trains which was probably more appropriate.

That suggests an error in planning really, as these should have been binned off at the timetable / STP stage and sounds like they were missed.

 

[Tom]

I think they pretty much all were - almost all of the cancellations on that line are PD cancels, I can see one or two PEs here and there though. If you enable CAN on RTT and look at those cancels though you'd think it was P coded because the nuance isn't generally understood between a PD/PG (and that a PD is auto-cancel on call per STP plan).

 

[The Planner]

That suggests an error in planning really, as these should have been binned off at the timetable / STP stage and sounds like they were missed.

It isn't, if a FOC bids for them at T18, you either offer or reject if they don't fit. The planner won't necessarily have a clue if they will actually run.

 

[Earle Grey]

• Realtraintimes uses the NR open source data feed and may not in terms of delay attribution removed the wrong code and replace with the new correct code where applicable

I have found that the coded captured by RTT is the initial coding input, and maybe even if altered before initial attribution into an incident... which could then get recoded later... eg 2P12 cancelled MD, then reinstated to be cancelled M7, with the incident including the train to then be changed by TOC to TH as an example. The MD cancellation is that which is caught by RTT. This helps explain some of the discourse on here and elsewhere as to the reason why a particular train is cancelled.

• Now what could have happen is that the cancellation was processed before 22:00, the timetable for the next day gets upload to the trust/tops systems and this train gets activated at 04:20 someone at NR or GBRf control notices and informs the NR TRC who generates a pg cancellation which real train times picks up

In this instance don't know... he said/she said/they said... FOCs can cancel their own trains doesn't have to go through NR. if you have the right level # sign on, you can go far... or not... depending on what you know. WINVV/TRUST/TOPS is another world!

• Control staff are to run trains and pardon the expression don't get care about enthusiasts over 70% of the staff and not railway or train enthusiasts they are just working for a pay check in a industry that gives them joy and progression so they don't go around screwing around enthusiasts

Lol. Sorry. No. No they don't...

• The use of pg in the seven branch example is correct as this for TOCs as is the use of PE for freight trains. PE can be used for tocs as well its not a hard and fast rule.

Nope. PG refers to Operators advising NR before 2200 they are not running a service due to a lack of resources. PE was created/split from PG to show the cancellations to services planned to run but unable to work/restrictions imposed by Network Rail eg. emergency engineering work.

• PD is system generated cancellation so its rarely used and I suspect that used for trust/top errors or delays in reaction to system generation cancellation that are direct delays

See below.

I think they pretty much all were - almost all of the cancellations on that line are PD cancels, I can see one or two PEs here and there though. If you enable CAN on RTT and look at those cancels though you'd think it was P coded because the nuance isn't generally understood between a PD/PG (and that a PD is auto-cancel on call per STP plan).

PD is used on cancellations of any service uploaded by Network Rail Train Planning at Milton Keynes. This is useful to know as TSCs have asked me, in the dim and distance, and if I see its cancelled PD... I can't reinstate it... VSTP please.

 

[JKF]

That suggests an error in planning really, as these should have been binned off at the timetable / STP stage and sounds like they were missed.

Towards the end of last week they cancelled everything past Avonmouth after one of the works trains heading for the Henbury line ran through the points there, requiring repairs. So some of the cancellations would have been unplanned/short notice.

 

[Horizon22]

It isn't, if a FOC bids for them at T18, you either offer or reject if they don't fit. The planner won't necessarily have a clue if they will actually run.

Yes I meant the FOC should have know they were cancelled

 

[Spartacus]

Yes I meant the FOC should have know they were cancelled

Short term planning always was very overworked, if you're short on time the cancellations are the first thing to be usually dropped. The worst that happens is it doesn't run, and someone might be timing around a train that won't run. Someone cranking is the last thing on their minds.

 

[Adrian Barr]

I pay for a ticket to Oxford only to be gutted by reading "Cancelled due to a planned cancellation by the operator".

The phrase "planned cancellation" is slightly misleading in this case. 6M26 on the 26th shows cancelled on an "FL" code which means TRAIN CANCELLED AT FOC'S REQUEST OR PLANNED NOT TO RUN. From Network Rail's perspective, FL basically means "not required" i.e. the freight operator did not require the service to run - this might be known in advance (if a train was shown as cancelled in the weekly plan) but it can also be a last minute cancellation.

FL is a very commonly used generic code for cancelled freight trains, and the only real conclusion you can draw from it is that the cancellation is not being blamed on a Network Rail issue (like an infrastructure fault) that prevented the train from running. The exact reason behind an FL cancellation is often not recorded in TRUST, as there's no dispute to investigate in the delay attribution process between Network Rail and the freight operating company, and no particular reason to make the exact cancellation reason public (unlike passenger trains).

The infrastructure trips serving the Network Rail local distribution centres (such as this "bulk ballast" working) are planned by Network Rail, who send out daily "Network wires" detailing what each service is supposed to be conveying, e.g. 20 falcons of spoil, or in this case an empty bulk ballast set of IOA "Mussel" wagons. I think the services themselves are planned on a weekly basis (i.e. the trains planned to run are decided the week before) with some of them running "as required" (like 6M26) and others being regular daily trips that generally run unless it's known in advance that both legs of a return trip will not be required.

6M26 was planned to run on these wires, but for some reason was cancelled shortly before departure. If 66791 was shown on RTT, it suggests the train was consisted in TOPS. It's also a "manual call" schedule that would normally only be activated if it was expected to run. Incidentally, I like the fact that the word "wire" - as in information sent by telegraph wire - is still in use in the days when such things are sent by email!

When a freight train is cancelled FL that was planned to run, it can be due to issues with the freight operating company (like a failed loco or a driver going sick) but can often be a customer issue. For example, if you went to Barnetby to see the iron ore and biomass trains, even if you had a copy of the planned workings for that week, the trains are subject to the knock-on impacts of disruption at the terminals themselves. For example the docking of a ship is delayed due to a storm, the conveyor belts that move the material to the loading silo have a fault, a piece of machinery breaks down. There could be similar problems at the location where the train offloads that stops them accepting trains... any number of things that are not a Network Rail problem can end up with a cancellation that ultimately gets recorded as "FL." With 6M26, Network Rail are both the customer for the train and the infrastructure operator, which slightly confuses things, but if Network Rail cancelled it as a customer (for example if the 'virtual quarry' where the stone would end up has not used as much stone as expected over the weekend and says they wouldn't be able to offload it) that would still probably go down as "FL" - not required to run.

With freight trains, the phrase "planned cancellation" I associate more with the PD code (SYSTEM GENERATED CANCELLATION) already mentioned. For example, if the entire Northampton loop is blocked due to weekend engineering work, WTT freight schedules from Daventry will have a type of variation input in advance by Network Rail planners which cancels the train, so that the schedule type will show as CAN instead of WTT. The train physically cannot run and the schedule cannot be activated. This is a bit different from cases where the train could run, but isn't planned to run. Schedules for freight trains which aren't planned to run are usually left in place (they might potentially be used at short notice instead of a VSTP path) rather than being shown in advance as a planned cancellation. If the schedule is set up as "manual call" (i.e. it won't activate itself automatically) and wasn't planned to run, it will just never be activated in TRUST. If the schedule is "auto call" it means it will automatically activate in the system (usually 2 or 3 hours before departure time) and then requires cancelling manually in TRUST... generally with an FL code.

 

[Loppylugs]

Wow, that's a comprehensive explanation, thank-you.

I've often wondered how FOC's manage with staff after last minute cancellations. Presumably a driver has been alerted to turn up for the job and maybe another for a crew change along the route. Are they found other work, or stood down, with pay I assume ? When I was on the railway (some time ago) and a return job was cancelled, it was home "on the cushions". Still the same ?

 

[Horizon22]

Short term planning always was very overworked, if you're short on time the cancellations are the first thing to be usually dropped. The worst that happens is it doesn't run, and someone might be timing around a train that won't run. Someone cranking is the last thing on their minds.

I believe the initial comment I was refer to wasn’t about a “Q” path though and more about planned (albeit short-notice) engineering works - if a train isn’t running it should be cancelled by someone in relevant systems within a reasonable time. I appreciate that may not always be available in advance

 

[Adrian Barr]

I've often wondered how FOC's manage with staff after last minute cancellations. Presumably a driver has been alerted to turn up for the job and maybe another for a crew change along the route. Are they found other work, or stood down, with pay I assume ? When I was on the railway (some time ago) and a return job was cancelled, it was home "on the cushions". Still the same ?

It probably varies between different FOCs depending on the terms and conditions of their traincrew agreements, which can be quite complicated. The driver might be reallocated to a vacant traincrew turn on another job (e.g. due to short notice sickness) if the hours fit and they have the right route knowledge. If they've already turned up to work for a train that's now cancelled, they might be asked to assist with any shunting required in a yard for a bit before going home, or if they're still at home they might be told to keep their phone on for a certain period (in case they are needed) before being stood down. If they're unlucky, they might not find out the train is cancelled until they get to the place where they're supposed to relieve it! For last minute cancellations I expect the driver would be paid for whatever hours they were booked to work, or have that many hours deducted from their annual hours if they still use that system... I don't know much about the traincrew rostering side of things.

I mentioned PD cancellations due to engineering work in my previous post, but also noticed a PG cancellation (discussed in other posts) the other day. There was a 4R54 Milford - Immingham (empty biomass set) which ran on Sunday 31st August. The WTT schedule is via Hambleton and Joan Croft junctions, but this was cancelled off on a PG code and replaced by a VSTP schedule via Knottingley West / South Jns and Haywood Junction.
PG OP P CANC PLANNED CANCELLATION DUE TO TRAIN OPERATOR REQUIREMENTS
It's interesting to see how it appears on Realtime trains. Adding CAN to the search options reveals the cancelled path alongside the VSTP one, with the cancelled WTT path having a "VCN" code, which I think means "cancelled under VSTP arrangements." https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...08-31/1600?stp=WVSC&show=all&order=wtt&toc=ZZ

It would be unusual for a WTT schedule to be cancelled off like this purely because it wasn't required on the weekly plan (it would create extra work and probably cause as many problems as it solved), but in this case it makes sense as one schedule is specifically being created to replace another - both routes were open so judging from the code used, it was a FOC request due to route knowledge or something like that.