Pathfinder annouce closure with final tour on 20th December 2025

[heart-of-wessex]

It's been noted by some that Pathfinder has fallen apart this year, mostly by cancellations. And I've yet to try another dining experience with the new contractor The Gravy Train as whilst the food was excellent, the service was hit and miss, mostly by being skipped now and again for some reason, having to get the attention of the staff most of the time because they served everyone drinks but not us.

I've received a letter from Pathfinder regarding the Stratford-upon-Avon tour on the 11th October stating that because of the small amount of carriages required, presumably meaning not many bookings, it's not financially viable to run this train therefore it's been cancelled. I've lost count how many cancelled tours I've had from PF this year, and end of last year they had stock problems which pulled a lot of tours off the program including one I was booked on, then there was more and recently there was the grid tour, my first 56 on the mainline but that got binned, and now this Stratford one too, so I've only managed 2 tours this year, Heart-of-Wales circular and Rail 200 tour (mind you there would be outrage if the latter got cancelled!)

Is it the stock operator that's causing low bookings or the destinations? The Stratford tour looked good with a decent circuit round, and new Steam loco too.

Maybe next year will improve I don't know but you can't improve if no one books, I've had people tell me they've lost confidence and not bothering anymore, I'm starting to think the same as it's becoming unreliable, I tell work I can't do that job or tour as I'm on a charter, said charter gets binned, someone else now doing what I could have done.

 

[HertiageFan]

Maybe it’s the price like SRPS railtours, lots have been cancelled - Pathfinder only run with mk2s at the moment and also WCRC are operating them (unlike DB and DRS) DB was a popular operator…

 

[Kite159]

Maybe next year will improve I don't know but you can't improve if no one books, I've had people tell me they've lost confidence and not bothering anymore, I'm starting to think the same as it's becoming unreliable,

Agreed, especially for those who might need to arrange time off work or even turn work down, only for the tour to get pulled.

Railtours have become quite expensive, especially if you need to factor in costs of accommodation for one or two nights (depending on the pick up locations and times) as well as travel costs (especially as some tours the finalised timings bare no relation to the advertised times for multiple reasons). Add on some tours being a long day stuck on a MK2 coach which can have questionable AC and potentially low down seats with crap legroom

 

[31160]

Currently there would be no way I would waste my time to book on a PF charter, waste of booked days off, accommodation, and pre booked travel, nope better off on UKR whilst admittedly not perfect much better chance of the bloody thing turning up, did the 50 tour on Saturday with the TC fine, not perfect but at least it ran

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Glad it's not just me! I do feel it's changed a lot over the years, I know some will have been on the F&W tours, I started in 2005 on one of the Spin & Win's, that got me hooked, and there was a lot of regular tours, I even started doing crazy things like overnighting at stations, or another favourite was the last Swansea to do a round trip on the Fishguard night unit, sleep on that back on it's round trip, then first train out to Bristol Parkway to join the tour there, no way I could be bothered to do that now, but it was fun times, windows to hear the loco's, winning sheds which doesn't happen since DB pulled out sometime ago, and the freight and rare track stuff which is more on UKR's cards now.

Premier dining was the way for me on PF now but haven't had the chance to experience much because it either keeps getting binned, or it's the starting place, I was thinking of the Cumbrian tour, one soon was nearest pick up Chepstow, about an hours drive or so away, but 6am and getting back near 1am isn't tempting.

Next years program they need to up their game, I'm not sure how as there's no hints that they are changing the formula, and if they don't it'll be more cancellations.

I know it's a completely different market and I don't know what their financial status is, but at the coach firm I work at we have a minimum cancellation system where we don't cancel everything that's not doing well because, if we kept cancelling things we'd loose custom, so instead we take a loss on a handful of tours and run them anyway to keep the custom. We've even taken just 10 passengers on a 7 day German tour before, a good £700 per passenger mind but still took a loss at running it, then another tour there be something like 38 for the same cost. Maybe if PF did something similar it would probably make a massive dent in losses as I know the cost's would be much higher, but all these refunds can't be doing them any good either!

 

[Ashley Hill]

Is there still a market for the spotter specials of old or rare track tours (not the specialised BLS tours) that F&W used to run? I’ve never been interested in the modern dining tours.

 

[JonathanH]

Next years program they need to up their game, I'm not sure how as there's no hints that they are changing the formula, and if they don't it'll be more cancellations.

Glad it's not just me! I do feel it's changed a lot over the years, I know some will have been on the F&W tours, I started in 2005 on one of the Spin & Win's, that got me hooked, and there was a lot of regular tours

Realistically the only rolling stock available for tours from their catchment area is that provided by West Coast Railways. That now means Mark 2Fs and it means selecting traction from a relatively small fleet of 33s, 37s, 47s and 57s, plus D1015. It also seemingly means not leaving Network Rail infrastructure. That limits the market they can appeal to.

I'm not sure spinning and winning within that fleet is going to put many people on seats, (how many locomotives will WCR allow to be hired for one train?), which leaves the day out market, and coming up with new ideas for a dwindling market is very challenging.

Within those constraints, how would they best 'up their game'?

I know it's a completely different market and I don't know what their financial status is, but at the coach firm I work at we have a minimum cancellation system where we don't cancel everything that's not doing well because, if we kept cancelling things we'd loose custom, so instead we take a loss on a handful of tours and run them anyway to keep the custom.

I suspect the economics of the coach company and a railtour company are in a very different order of magnitude, in terms of the losses which can arise from not selling all the seats. Maybe they have already been following this policy.

 

[Harpo]

Definitely pencilling themselves a place in the ‘Companies you expect to disappear soon’ thread.

 

[SW Rover]

I hope that Pathfinders can survive as I have been on many great tours in the past. They always had a good range of enthusiast tours and days out trips advertised to the general public in local areas.
In recent years the tours have become much longer marathons with very early start and late finish times. Is this what is putting off the non enthusiast from booking? For example the Cambrian Coast Express 12th Sept Oxford dep 0545 and arr 0120 even the last pick up is a long day Wolves dep 0915 arr 2205. Are shorter day trips a possible solution to attract back the non enthusiast market?

 

[HertiageFan]

Realistically the only rolling stock available for tours from their catchment area is that provided by West Coast Railways. That now means Mark 2Fs and it means selecting traction from a relatively small fleet of 33s, 37s, 47s and 57s, plus D1015. It also seemingly means not leaving Network Rail infrastructure. That limits the market they can appeal to.

I'm not sure spinning and winning within that fleet is going to put many people on seats, (how many locomotives will WCR allow to be hired for one train?), which leaves the day out market, and coming up with new ideas for a dwindling market is very challenging.

Within those constraints, how would they best 'up their game'?


I suspect the economics of the coach company and a railtour company are in a very different order of magnitude, in terms of the losses which can arise from not selling all the seats. Maybe they have already been following this policy.

And D345 when it’s fixed

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Aug 2025 ==

We need something like deltic up ecml with Mk1s and nothing assisting i, but that’s only happening if no.22 gets fixed

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

We need something like deltic up ecml with Mk1s and nothing assisting i, but that’s only happening if no.22 gets fixed

Which Mk1s would those be? While WCRC continue to refuse to fit CDL (or are unable to for technical reasons, although I think that argument has been disproven), there are few options.

 

[31160]

How many times do you want to go up the ecml on a deltic though? Surly anyone who wants to had done,more than once probs, I know I have

 

[HertiageFan]

How many times do you want to go up the ecml on a deltic though? Surly anyone who wants to had done,more than once probs, I know I have

Or over S+C with a deltic

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Aug 2025 ==

Which Mk1s would those be? While WCRC continue to refuse to fit CDL (or are unable to for technical reasons, although I think that argument has been disproven), there are few options.

Lsl (Intercity)

 

[Bertie the bus]

Lsl (Intercity)

So you want an LSL owned Deltic hauling LSL owned Mk 1's. Don't you think if that were to happen it would be promoted by one of LSL's tour operators rather than Pathfinder?

 

[Harpo]

I hadn’t spotted the cancellation of their 4 day autumn highlander too.

 

[31160]

I hadn’t spotted the cancellation of their 4 day autumn highlander too.

I wouldn't be too surprised if it just gets absorbed into WCR eventually, the owner has sold all his rolling stock to them already, and he's really quite old and his family are not interested in taking it forward

 

[bleeder4]

I must have got lucky with them, as every tour I've booked with them this year has run! Been over the Cambrian Coast, Weardale Railway, Central Wales and to Penzance with them this year so far. 2 more booked - Newquay and Yeovil Railway Centre/Exeter.

 

[MiNi]

I must have got lucky with them, as every tour I've booked with them this year has run! Been over the Cambrian Coast, Weardale Railway, Central Wales and to Penzance with them this year so far. 2 more booked - Newquay and Yeovil Railway Centre/Exeter.

Apparently the Newquay jaunt is up in the air with a possible change of date or destination. Something to do with Network Rail and the signalling,that is due to be finished on Monday 15th.

 

[bleeder4]

Apparently the Newquay jaunt is up in the air with a possible change of date or destination. Something to do with Network Rail and the signalling,that is due to be finished on Monday 15th.

Fingers crossed! Timings have been on RTT for a couple of weeks now. An unexpected bonus is a brief stop at Goss Moor Loop, which is the brand new loop that Network Rail built this year as part of the signalling work you mention.

 

[MiNi]

Fingers crossed! Timings have been on RTT for a couple of weeks now. An unexpected bonus is a brief stop at Goss Moor Loop, which is the brand new loop that Network Rail built this year as part of the signalling work you mention.

yes timings are on rtt so hopefully it runs ok. But who knows these days.

 

[xotGD]

How many times do you want to go up the ecml on a deltic though? Surly anyone who wants to had done,more than once probs, I know I have

Deltic bashers did it day after day, week after week, racking up the mileage.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Fingers crossed! Timings have been on RTT for a couple of weeks now. An unexpected bonus is a brief stop at Goss Moor Loop, which is the brand new loop that Network Rail built this year as part of the signalling work you mention.

Wait for the official line but it is almost certain the Newquay tour won’t go to Newquay if it’s booked to cross the service train at Goss Moor. The commissioning date is going to slip.

(Could in theory wait at Goonbarrow and cross there, but you’d have to be back at Goonbarrow in time to cross the next round trip for the GWR unit and that looks unlikely to be viable.)

 

[Kite159]

.

I wouldn't be too surprised if it just gets absorbed into WCR eventually, the owner has sold all his rolling stock to them already, and he's really quite old and his family are not interested in taking it forward

Likewise, WCR purchasing the company for the customer base, and the name existing solely for some tours

 

[MiNi]

Wait for the official line but it is almost certain the Newquay tour won’t go to Newquay if it’s booked to cross the service train at Goss Moor. The commissioning date is going to slip.

(Could in theory wait at Goonbarrow and cross there, but you’d have to be back at Goonbarrow in time to cross the next round trip for the GWR unit and that looks unlikely to be viable.)

change of destination then. Penzance maybe so the normals can still do the off train excursions

 

[The_Train]

How many times do you want to go up the ecml on a deltic though? Surly anyone who wants to had done,more than once probs, I know I have

Ahhhh the good old "I've done that before so why should they do it again?" chestnut!

Deltics were withdrawn from service in 1981 which is 44 years ago. So that means anyone under 44 had a slight issue in getting to experience them in service and realistically you could go as far as saying that anyone under 50 have probably not experienced them in service (well those between 44 and 50 are unlikely to have much of a memory of them if they did ride them at a young age).

 

[Loadhaul60059]

I was born in the late 80's and have only recently got to the stage in my career where going on railtours is a realistic financial possibility for me.

I've only been hauled by a Deltic on the GCR, and would love the opportunity to travel behind one on the ECML, so I'd be at the front of the queue if this was ever organised again.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Ahhhh the good old "I've done that before so why should they do it again?" chestnut!

Deltics were withdrawn from service in 1981 which is 44 years ago. So that means anyone under 44 had a slight issue in getting to experience them in service and realistically you could go as far as saying that anyone under 50 have probably not experienced them in service (well those between 44 and 50 are unlikely to have much of a memory of them if they did ride them at a young age).

Some years ago I was in the fortunate position of route conducting a Deltic on the heritage railway I volunteer on. The driver said that East Coast tours were always popular but North Wales or Scotland not so.

 

[Harpo]

.

Likewise, WCR purchasing the company for the customer base,

Or LSL? It’s already hoovered up the Torbay steam market through being vastly more capable than PF. Although current showings suggest LSL has only a passing interest in the ‘enthusiast’ segment of the market.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Ahhhh the good old "I've done that before so why should they do it again?" chestnut!

Deltics were withdrawn from service in 1981 which is 44 years ago. So that means anyone under 44 had a slight issue in getting to experience them in service and realistically you could go as far as saying that anyone under 50 have probably not experienced them in service (well those between 44 and 50 are unlikely to have much of a memory of them if they did ride them at a young age).

Absolutely. I am 63 and my first railtour was in 1977 when I was still at school. A friend booked us on a Paddington-Cleethorpes tour which I think was RPPR. class 45 via Greenford, MML etc to Doncaster, for 2x37 to Barnetby then 2x20 to Cleethorpes. Same 37s back to Donny for an absolutely storming run up the MML to St Pancras.

I managed to bag half a dozen deltics on service trains prior to their withdrawal in 1982, but even though they were an imposing and impressive loco thye just didn't do it for me. But as you say, anyone much younger than me will never had the thrill of a deltic on a service train - in the same way I never had a class 24 or a WR diesel hydraulic on the mainline.

As for the original topic I would hope Pathfinder continue but the operations must be so restricted these days and I haven't done a mainline tour since the Snowdonian II in 1986. I suppose it is personal choice as to whether you want to pay the price and enjoy the day. For me train travel was always about standing at a droplight, listening to, seeing and smelling the journey - preferably with sweet Sulzer clag from a type 2 on the front. Obviously other options are available !!

 

[The_Train]

I would absolutely like Pathfinder to continue to trade but I find it more likely that they will be the first of the current crop to throw in the towel. When they do run a tour, I generally find them to be decent days out with good stewarding on board. But they can't continue in the same way as they have, particularly this year. I think I have had 4 tours I have been booked on cancelled by them this year alone and that just isn't acceptable when my booking with them in the first place often requires me to rearrange plans with work. Whilst they are the worst culprits, I have also had SRPS and UKR cancelling tours on me this year as well so it is a problem across the industry and has really softened my eagerness to book onto tours, especially on dates where I need to re-jig my work rota.

For the past 18 months, I have generally always had 4 or 5 tours booked for future dates but that has dropped to 2 now and I can't say I have really been monitoring new tours going on sale recently either. I will probably do these 2 and then take a break until next year and see how things develop in the coming months but it does have the feel of the start of the end for enthusiast based rail tours. I will have to get my fill of 40013 by spending even more money on the dining trains in the future