Fraud investigation for possible short fares

[bulldog123]

Hi, I was recently stopped on the train due to buying my ticket on the Trainline app after the train had departed, I didn’t realise this was not allowed as regularly see ticket inspectors allowing people to do this, however we were pulling into my station before they could issue any fines or take my details. I’ve since received an email from the fraud team. I agreed to the honest mistake and offered to settle any penalty fares. They’ve since asked for evidence on 2 occasions of a railcard being used, I asked for details of the journeys as the Trainline app doesn’t go back far enough and they’ve on both occasions responding saying after reviewing they can see both times they were refunded so have been removed from their investigation.
They’ve now sent me a list of 21 journeys between now and 2022 asking for evidence of these not being short fares due to them not being from the station closest to my home address. I’ve responded asking for examples of what evidence they need and am awaiting their reply, however I don’t really understand what they want? They’ve determined my closest station as the local tram which I don’t use, and a lot of those journeys are just me using public transport in and around the city centre.
Are these emails coming from an actual person or are they bot generated? And can anyone please offer advice on where to go from here?
I’m quite happy to pay the penalty fare for what I was originally stopped for but they haven’t offered me this yet

 

[AlterEgo]

Show us all the correspondence with your name removed please. That'll help us find out what's been going on.

 

[duffield]

Hi, I was recently stopped on the train due to buying my ticket on the Trainline app after the train had departed, I didn’t realise this was not allowed as regularly see ticket inspectors allowing people to do this, however we were pulling into my station before they could issue any fines or take my details. I’ve since received an email from the fraud team. I agreed to the honest mistake and offered to settle any penalty fares. They’ve since asked for evidence on 2 occasions of a railcard being used, I asked for details of the journeys as the Trainline app doesn’t go back far enough and they’ve on both occasions responding saying after reviewing they can see both times they were refunded so have been removed from their investigation.
They’ve now sent me a list of 21 journeys between now and 2022 asking for evidence of these not being short fares due to them not being from the station closest to my home address. I’ve responded asking for examples of what evidence they need and am awaiting their reply, however I don’t really understand what they want? They’ve determined my closest station as the local tram which I don’t use, and a lot of those journeys are just me using public transport in and around the city centre.
Are these emails coming from an actual person or are they bot generated? And can anyone please offer advice on where to go from here?
I’m quite happy to pay the penalty fare for what I was originally stopped for but they haven’t offered me this yet

Specifically on the penalty fare issue, you can forget about that since they are never issued retrospectively. To avoid court you are looking at trying to obtain an out of court settlement, which is usually possible but unfortunately will be noticeably more than a penalty fare.

Anyhow, you'll get more specific advice when you've posted the correspondence (suitably redacted).

 

[bulldog123]

Show us all the correspondence with your name removed please. That'll help us find out what's been going on.

Hi,
See attached

 

[AlterEgo]

Where have you been buying tickets from - as in between which stations? It is not clear to me why they suspect short journeys.

 

[bulldog123]

The journeys in question, Stourbridge Junction is my closest station, Stourbridge Town is the tram/link that goes back and forth from the town centre to Stourbridge Junction. I never use the tram as I’ll either walk to Junction or get a lift.
The rest of the journeys will just be me hopping on the train in and around Birmingham

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2025 ==

Where have you been buying tickets from - as in between which stations? It is not clear to me why they suspect short journeys.

Hi, just sent screenshots on another reply

 

[Coleridge]

The journeys in question, Stourbridge Junction is my closest station, Stourbridge Town is the tram/link that goes back and forth from the town centre to Stourbridge Junction. I never use the tram as I’ll either walk to Junction or get a lift.
The rest of the journeys will just be me hopping on the train in and around Birmingham

A ticket from Jewellery Quarter to Snow Hill, which can be walked in 15 minutes, will always raise suspicions that the passenger is short-faring, especially if the ticket wasn't scanned at the entrance to Jewellery Quarter. If you are certain that all those tickets will have been scanned at the start and end of your journey (and this is something that the investigators can check), then you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Kite159]

A ticket from Jewellery Quarter to Snow Hill, which can be walked in 15 minutes, will always raise suspicions that the passenger is short-faring, especially if the ticket wasn't scanned at the entrance to Jewellery Quarter. If you are certain that all those tickets will have been scanned at the start and end of your journey (and this is something that the investigators can check), then you have nothing to worry about.

I'm pretty sure Jewellery Quarter doesn't have ticket barriers and would be nearly impossible to fit due to the station building being shared with the tram stop.

However for someone living further away buying a ticket from Jewellery Quarter to Birmingham is a big red flag. Similar if you have someone living in (say) Lichfield having multiple tickets from Duddeston on their account.

 

[Coleridge]

I'm pretty sure Jewellery Quarter doesn't have ticket barriers and would be nearly impossible to fit due to the station building being shared with the tram stop

Fair enough; I'm not familiar with that station.

The investigators might wonder how the OP, who lives in Stourbridge, got from there to Jewellery Quarter and back again on the days that he bought tickets between Jewellery Quarter and Snow Hill. (Just playing devil's advocate here.)

 

[bulldog123]

I'm pretty sure Jewellery Quarter doesn't have ticket barriers and would be nearly impossible to fit due to the station building being shared with the tram stop

Hi, this is correct there’s no barrier/scanning system at JQ

 

[bulldog123]

A ticket from Jewellery Quarter to Snow Hill, which can be walked in 15 minutes, will always raise suspicions that the passenger is short-faring, especially if the ticket wasn't scanned at the entrance to Jewellery Quarter. If you are certain that all those tickets will have been scanned at the start and end of your journey (and this is something that the investigators can check), then you have nothing to worry about.

I’m not sure how to prove / give evidence that it isn’t short faring though. Some of those journeys are dating back to 2022 and I have absolutely no idea what the details of the journey were, e.g if I drove and parked at JQ, or my partner bought a ticket to JQ where we first got off, spent some time there then got back on and went to Snow Hill which I bought the ticket for. These are scenarios that do happen but I wouldn’t have a clue if it applies to those journeys. I don’t think it’s uncommon to do short journeys by the train, it’s no different to hopping on a tram

 

[AlterEgo]

Looks like the filthiest collection of tickets I've seen for a while. Stonewall short faring, please don't insult the intelligence of an investigator that it is anything different. You got caught buying on the train because your normal method of travelling is to try to remain undetected as long as possible and then buy a ticket from the closest possible station to operate the barrier.

They, and we, see this all the time. Search "Jewellery Quarter" in this subforum to see how many others got caught doing exactly the same. It is tedious and easy to detect. You're like a guy who got caught shoplifting a computer keyboard "yep sorry bang to rights hehe okay I'll pay you for it really keen to get this settled" then the police have a look in your house and find 25 identical keyboards in there from the last few years.

My advice is to settle the short faring; people are very nice here and like to give the benefit of the doubt, but the investigators aren't. You've been found out.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

These are scenarios that do happen but I wouldn’t have a clue if it applies to those journeys.

You need to ask yourself if they do happen to you. What do you do in the Jewellery Quarter that means it makes sense for you to get a train (about once every 15 minutes, journey time 4 minutes) to Snow Hill rather than a tram (about every five minutes, journey time 3 minutes) to St Chads.

While it's for the railway to prove that you were doing something wrong rather than for you to prove that you were doing everything right, you need to remember that courts are allowed to use common sense and demand a greater level of proof if someone claims that something fairly unlikely has happened: that's why I never got away with it at school arguing that the dog ate my homework, or I left it on the bus, or that a big boy stole it and ran away.

 

[Blinkbonny]

Have to say Snow Hill to Moor Street made me blink!
By the time you'd walked from the front of Snow Hill to the platforms - to say nothing of stopping to buy a ticket - you could be at Moor Street!

 

[bulldog123]

Fair enough; I'm not familiar with that station.

The investigators might wonder how the OP, who lives in Stourbridge, got from there to Jewellery Quarter and back again on the days that he bought tickets between Jewellery Quarter and Snow Hill. (Just playing devil's advocate here.)

How does one prove this though? Completely agree with your points. I’m also not claiming that there aren’t any short fares in there, I suspect a handful could be although I don’t recall, I wouldn’t

Looks like the filthiest collection of tickets I've seen for a while. Stonewall short faring, please don't insult the intelligence of an investigator that it is anything different. You got caught buying on the train because your normal method of travelling is to try to remain undetected as long as possible and then buy a ticket from the closest possible station to operate the barrier.

They, and we, see this all the time. Search "Jewellery Quarter" in this subforum to see how many others got caught doing exactly the same.

My advice is to settle the short faring; people are very nice here and like to give the benefit of the doubt, but the investigators aren't. You've been found out.

I will absolutely agree that some of those would be short fares which I was just typing in response to another comment, but definitely not all of them, there have been many occasions where I’ve driven and parked in the jewellery quarter and then got the train to snow hill. I suspect the Moor Street to Snow Hill ones could be trying my luck at short faring but I really do not know, these are all so long ago I have no idea!
My worry is how can I prove anything? Am I better off just saying all of the JQ-Snow Hill-Moor Street ones were short fares (not any of the Stourbridge Junction ones) to get it over and done with and hopefully get the opportunity for an out of court settlement?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2025 ==

Have to say Snow Hill to Moor Street made me blink!
By the time you'd walked from the front of Snow Hill to the platforms - to say nothing of stopping to buy a ticket - you could be at Moor Street!

Hi, just replied to another comment to say the snow hill - moor street ones very well could have been short faring, I really don’t know, I wouldn’t have a clue what I was doing on dates that far back. But the entire list is definitely not all short fares but I wouldn’t know how to prove they aren’t, I’m half tempted to just say all bar the Stourbridge Junction ones were short fares to hopefully get an out of court settlement and get this over and done with

 

[AlterEgo]

How does one prove this though? Completely agree with your points. I’m also not claiming that there aren’t any short fares in there, I suspect a handful could be although I don’t recall, I wouldn’t

I will absolutely agree that some of those would be short fares which I was just typing in response to another comment, but definitely not all of them, there have been many occasions where I’ve driven and parked in the jewellery quarter and then got the train to snow hill.

Pretty much nobody drives 95% of the way to get a one stop train to cover a 15 min walk. Don't waste their time on this. They know you're dishonest, they see this all the time. If you were hopping on and off transit in Birmingham as per your opening post you wouldn't be buying relatively expensive single tickets to take you one stop. At this point you are arguing over maybe £50 worth of fares.

Hi, just replied to another comment to say the snow hill - moor street ones very well could have been short faring, I really don’t know, I wouldn’t have a clue what I was doing on dates that far back.

I think most people know if they've ever grifted their train fares. You know, if someone ever asked me "did you go shoplifting in August 2023?" I could be quite confident that no, I did not go shoplifting. Because I don't steal.

If I've been shoplifting 20 times before and you ask me the same question then I start wondering "oh I dunno did I shoplift on this day or not. Hard to say, seems an unfair question."

Just settle for all the fares (except the ones involving Stourbridge Jn which do not seem too suspicious to me). You got caught. There is no need to try and save face on an anonymous forum. We don't know who you are.

They haven't offered you an out of court disposal for the offence you got caught red handed for because they think they haven't got to the bottom of things. And they're right. If they become satisfied you are honest, they will then offer a settlement in lieu of prosecuting you for the offence/s.

 

[bulldog123]

Hi, with the price of parking in the city centre and British weather I actually don’t think it’s such a strange thing to drive 95% of the journey and then hop on a train for what could be a 15 minute walk.
On previous comments I’ve explained there very well could be some short fares in there, but definitely not all of them but I wouldn’t know which as it’s over such a long period of time and so my concern was how can I prove what was and what wasn’t? It seems unfair that I could end up paying a settlement fee on tickets that were genuine but it seems that’s going to be my best option to avoid hassle putting an end to it to avoid it being taken further.
Do you have any suggestions on how I should word my reply? I’ve emailed asking for examples of the evidence they require so I’m awaiting their reply to me, but I think from there I’m just going to say any journeys excluding Stourbridge Junction ones are short fares but I don’t know how to word my reply to ensure they are satisfied

 

[duffield]

Based on your most recent post, I would suggest something like the following specifically in regard to the Jewellery Quarter tickets.

"Because of the amount of time that has passed I can't recall the details of the individual journeys from Jewellery Quarter. I believe at least some of them were legitimate but I acknowledge that there are some short fares amongst them, and understand you may need to treat all of them as short fares".

Others may have better perhaps more concise suggestions.

It may seem unfair to pay extra for some legitimate journeys but the alternative is being taken to court for the offence/s that they can prove. They're not obliged to offer out of court settlements so basically they set the terms.

 

[bulldog123]

Based on your most recent post, I would suggest something like the following specifically in regard to the Jewellery Quarter tickets.

"Because of the amount of time that has passed I can't recall the details of the individual journeys from Jewellery Quarter. I believe at least some of them were legitimate but I acknowledge that there are some short fares amongst them, and understand you may need to treat all of them as short fares".

Others may have better perhaps more concise suggestions.

It may seem unfair to pay extra for some legitimate journeys but the alternative is being taken to court for the offence/s that they can prove. They're not obliged to offer out of court settlements so basically they set the terms.

Thank you , I agree it’s the best option to go with as i just don’t think I’ll be able to prove which ones are legitimate, it would essentially be me asking them to take my word for it and I don’t see that happening.

On a side note, going back to the original offence of buying a ticket after the train departed, it’s really confusing what is and isn’t acceptable, I appreciate that the rule is to buy a ticket before you board a train but the inspectors on board are regularly allowing people to use tickets bought after departure, buy a ticket from them onboard using card payment and from a station with a working ticket machine, waiting for someone to buy a ticket on the Trainline app in front of them so they can scan it, so even the inspectors aren’t following their own rules. I sat next to someone last week who had clearly short fared as we were about 2 stops after the station he bought a ticket to when the inspector came and scanned his ticket and she allowed him to buy a ticket from her for the rest of the journey. I also witnessed someone last week ask the inspector for a ticket to moor street and his response was “don’t worry the barriers won’t be open at this time” and didn’t make him buy a ticket. I don’t understand why the inspectors themselves aren’t enforcing the rules?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi, with the price of parking in the city centre and British weather I actually don’t think it’s such a strange thing to drive 95% of the journey and then hop on a train for what could be a 15 minute walk.

I'm still struggling with why you don't get the tram, which is more frequent and (as far as I can see) cheaper.

Taking everything into account, I think your best option is to treat all the one and two stop rides as short faring.

 

[cholsey-choose]

It seems unfair that I could end up paying a settlement fee on tickets that were genuine

Just think of it as a fee to avoid going to court and getting a criminal record on the tickets that are not genuine. That's pretty fair, and probably a bargain.

it’s really confusing what is and isn’t acceptable,

I don't think it's that confusing. Think of it like speeding... if the limit is 30 and you are doing more than that, you are guilty. But the police can and do often use their discretion about whether to issue a ticket.

 

[John R]

I suspect the Moor Street to Snow Hill ones could be trying my luck at short faring but I really do not know, these are all so long ago I have no idea!

I suspect you lost any credibility as to your story with that comment. And whilst you might not care about a random group of people on the internet, if you were to make such a statement in response to the investigators then they would probably move straight to prosecution as they wouldn't believe it. (That's why we probe and challenge here - not because we enjoy seeing people squirm, but because it is much better to tease the truth out here than a poster putting a story forward that won't be believed and ending up with a criminal record.)

As to it being unfair, you've admitted that you have defrauded the railway by short faring, so a) you can't expect the investigators to believe that those tickets from JQ - a station well known for short faring - are genuine, and b) you've rather lost the moral high ground in deciding which part of this process is unfair.

I don't think you have any option but to invite them to treat all those journeys as short fares and ask very nicely if they will make you a settlement offer in lieu of prosecution.

 

[bulldog123]

I suspect you lost any credibility as to your story with that comment. And whilst you might not care about a random group of people on the internet, if you were to make such a statement in response to the investigators then they would probably move straight to prosecution as they wouldn't believe it. (That's why we probe and challenge here - not because we enjoy seeing people squirm, but because it is much better to tease the truth out here than a poster putting a story forward that won't be believed and ending up with a criminal record.)

As to it being unfair, you've admitted that you have defrauded the railway by short faring, so a) you can't expect the investigators to believe that those tickets from JQ - a station well known for short faring - are genuine, and b) you've rather lost the moral high ground in deciding which part of this process is unfair.

I don't think you have any option but to invite them to treat all those journeys as short fares and ask very nicely if they will make you a settlement offer in lieu of prosecution.

Hi, the point I was making was that the list of journeys provided are over such a long period of time I can’t remember anything about them, i.e what I was doing that day, who I was with, how I got anywhere, what I ate for breakfast, so when I saw that there was tickets from Moor Street to Snow Hill even I thought “they probably are short fares because why would I get a train from Moor Street to Snow Hill”, what I wanted advice on was that they have asked for evidence of the list of journeys not being short fares but I didn’t know how or what evidence I could possibly provide when I know some (‘which ones?’ is a different question) are legitimate journeys, and so what the next steps would be. The general consensus has been to treat all of the one stop journeys as short fares which is what I will do.

I was also concerned that they requested proof of a rail card for 2 journeys (one in 2022 and one in 2025) but didn’t check initially that they had been cancelled and refunded, so for all I know some of the journeys on the list they sent could also have been cancelled or not gone ahead with due to changes in plans. I was curious if I was speaking to a real person at the Digital Fraud team or if the emails are auto/bot generated.

If you have any suggestions on what I should include in my response to them to hopefully get an out of court settlement I’d really appreciate it

 

[enyoueffsea]

The quicker you realise that you do not hold the cards in this interaction, the better.

Rather than looking for loopholes or opportunities to further evade the truth and cost of your travel, you need to own it and pay up.

Your transactions are a clear red flag for short fares and your unrealistic explanations have been tried and failed on here and also in response to the TOCs many, many times before.

You can’t claim to be so money savvy that you drive 95% of your journey to save money on parking, to then take a more expensive method of travel to reach your destination. I reckon we see this excuse at least once a week and I do not think it has ever been provably correct.

Your response should be simple. Thank you for clarifying, sorry for my actions, please can you settle out of court.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

If you have any suggestions on what I should include in my response to them to hopefully get an out of court settlement I’d really appreciate it

You should tell the truth. If you know that your journey was only between two adjacent stations, say so. If you know that you short fared, say that. If you are not sure, you need to think about what you usually did - you will know if you parked up near Jewellery Quarter most of the time, or some of the time, or never. So tell the railway how many you really think were just trips between the adjacent stations.

 

[JBuchananGB]

Best to keep all your questions in your own thread:

was just curious at to what the potential settlement they (hopefully) offer me is so I can put a chunk of money to one side in prep. I.e will it be the full fare for the journey from my home station or will it be the difference of the ticket I paid (+ an admin fee)

Looking at your industrial scale fare evasion, in the event that WMT decide to accept you responses, you can expect the Anytime Single Fare to/from Stourbridge Junction/Birmingham Moor Street, which is is currently £6.50, for every apparent short fare journey, plus their admin charges. No reduction made for fraudulently purchased tickets. Payment will be expected in full in 14 days from their settlement offer. Payment plans are not available.

 

[bulldog123]

Best to keep all your questions in your own thread:

Looking at your industrial scale fare evasion, in the event that WMT decide to accept you responses, you can expect the Anytime Single Fare to/from Stourbridge Junction/Birmingham Moor Street, which is is currently £6.50, for every apparent short fare journey, plus their admin charges. No reduction made for fraudulently purchased tickets. Payment will be expected in full in 14 days from their settlement offer. Payment plans are not available.

Best to keep all your questions in your own thread:

Looking at your industrial scale fare evasion, in the event that WMT decide to accept you responses, you can expect the Anytime Single Fare to/from Stourbridge Junction/Birmingham Moor Street, which is is currently £6.50, for every apparent short fare journey, plus their admin charges. No reduction made for fraudulently purchased tickets. Payment will be expected in full in 14 days from their settlement offer. Payment plans are not available.

Thank you for your help I appreciate your response

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Aug 2025 ==

I think there seems to be an assumption on this thread that I’m a man, I’m not a man I’m a woman under 30. If you are fortunate enough to have never been put in a situation where you no longer feel comfortable doing certain journeys on your own or walking “just 15 minutes” through streets you don’t know then I envy you. So yes, on occasion I have driven “95% of the journey” and then got on the train to Snow Hill. Yes I have also done the same and got on the tram, if you’ve been to JQ you’ll know you have to walk down platform 2 to get to the trams so if there’s a train already on platform 2 I’ll hop on it. You can see from the transaction history screenshot (16 journeys flagged over a 3 year & 3 month period) that it’s hardly a regular occurrence.

Yes I’ve also driven the entire way to the city centre and paid the price through higher parking costs or even the one accidental bus lane ticket I was lumped with. So certain JQ parking + a one stop train or tram ticket is definitely cheaper and less stressful than parking in the city centre.

And yes I have also short fared to get through barriers.

From my original post, I was not looking for loopholes, I was asking what the next steps were after they’ve asked me for evidence as I didn’t know what evidence they would expect, e.g parking tickets? You’ll also see a few comments down I accepted that I’m not going to know exactly which journeys are legitimate nor would I have evidence of this, (a parking ticket from 2022? No chance) and which aren’t so I will just say they are all short fare evasions to get this whole ordeal off my plate, and was then asking if anyone has any suggestions on what to include in my response, I’ve seen so many helpful responses on what to include on emails on other threads so decided to post my own.

I was looking for legitimate advice based on what the next steps in this process are and also queried whether or not the emails are from a human or auto/bot generated. I was never asking people how I can get away with it. Some comments seem to have spiralled away from what my post was intended for. Thank you very much for those of you who have offered genuine and helpful advice, I really appreciate the time and effort you put in to help people you don’t know in your spare time.

I have responded to the Digital Fraud team to say all of the listed transactions excluding ones to and from Stourbridge Junction will be short fare evasion along with my sincerest apologies, confirmation I have since bought flexi passes and intend to get a railcard after payday to get cheaper journeys through legitimate means and have requested given my full cooperation and that this is the first time I’ve been investigated can we please settle this outside of court.

As with other peoples threads, I’ll be sure to post the outcome should anyone in the future read this and be in a similar situation.

 

[cholsey-choose]

a parking ticket from 2022? No chance)

Are you sure about this? Since they've given you the exact dates, if you think you might have paid for parking with plastic, shouldn't you be able to go back and find it in your bank statements?

Depending on whether the parking provider you used takes the number plate and how long they hold the data for, might it be worth a request to them (maybe a GDPR request) to get the information?

Finally, do you use google maps? I think they may have stopped this recently but until awhile ago they google maps location history would keep a record of everywhere you went (or everywhere your phone went)... again that would be solid evidence if you could show you were at the car park on those days! I'm not sure how much location data Apple keeps.

 

[DeverseSam]

Hi, with the price of parking in the city centre and British weather I actually don’t think it’s such a strange thing to drive 95% of the journey and then hop on a train for what could be a 15 minute walk.

I agree and that is the thinking behind some Park and Ride schemes. However JQ doesn’t have a big car park for commuters

 

[John R]

I agree and that is the thinking behind some Park and Ride schemes. However JQ doesn’t have a big car park for commuters

And especially odd when you’ve already hacked your way through the busy suburbs of a big metropolis, almost to the end of your journey, rather than just taking the train from your starting point.

It doesn’t matter whether we believe it though, it’s what the investigator would believe, and I note that the OP has made the sensible decision to agree to all such journeys being regarded as short fares.