Class 175s to GWR

[DelW]

To be fair, the 175s, 379s, 707s and 68/Mk5a sets have all been or are about to be cascaded. The main losses have been the 332s and 365s.

I'd add the fleet of newly converted and refurbished, but almost entirely unused, 769/9s that have been sitting in storage for some years now. Their future seems to be murky at best, and I wouldn't be surprised if Porterbrook gave up, stripped them for parts if any are re-usable, and scrapped the remains.

Not completely off-topic, as they were of course an earlier solution to GWR's shortage of stock. Their withdrawal possibly helped the 175s find a new home.

 

[Milky Bar Kid]

Ching Ching https://www.railmagazine.com/news/alstom-signs-75-million-support-deal-with-gwr-for-class-175-fleet

 

[tfw756rider]

Good news, but what is with RAIL getting dates wrong? The 175s were withdrawn from Transport for Wales (TfW) in 2023, not 2025.

They previously said that the first 769s entered service in 2021 (with Northern), rather than with TfW (in 2020).

How do they manage to mess up such things?

 

[The exile]

Good news, but what is with RAIL getting dates wrong? The 175s were withdrawn from Transport for Wales (TfW) in 2023, not 2025.

They previously said that the first 769s entered service in 2021 (with Northern), rather than with TfW (in 2020).

How do they manage to mess up such things?

Does any publication still employ sub-editors?

 

[43096]

Good news, but what is with RAIL getting dates wrong? The 175s were withdrawn from Transport for Wales (TfW) in 2023, not 2025.

They previously said that the first 769s entered service in 2021 (with Northern), rather than with TfW (in 2020).

How do they manage to mess up such things?

Slightly in their defence when were the last sets off-leased by TfW?

 

[D365]

Ching Ching https://www.railmagazine.com/news/alstom-signs-75-million-support-deal-with-gwr-for-class-175-fleet

Quoted below as per forum rules:

Alstom has signed a major eight-year Technical Support and Spares Supply Agreement (TSSSA) with Great Western Railway(GWR), supporting the introduction of 26 Class 175 diesel multiple units into service across South West England.

Valued at around £75 million, the deal will see Alstom provide ongoing maintenance and technical support from GWR’s Laira depot in Plymouth. The contract will directly support over 15 specialist roles and sustain other roles across Alstom’s wider UK supply chain.

The Class 175 fleet, originally built by Alstom in Birmingham between 1999 and 2001, was previously operated by Transport for Wales until earlier this year. The trains are owned by Angel Trains and were leased to GWR in March. They will operate regional routes including Exeter St Davids, Penzance, Barnstaple and Okehampton, with the first units expected to enter service later this year.

 

[tfw756rider]

Quoted below as per forum rules:

Alstom has signed a major eight-year Technical Support and Spares Supply Agreement (TSSSA) with Great Western Railway(GWR), supporting the introduction of 26 Class 175 diesel multiple units into service across South West England.

Valued at around £75 million, the deal will see Alstom provide ongoing maintenance and technical support from GWR’s Laira depot in Plymouth. The contract will directly support over 15 specialist roles and sustain other roles across Alstom’s wider UK supply chain.

The Class 175 fleet, originally built by Alstom in Birmingham between 1999 and 2001, was previously operated by Transport for Wales until late 2023. The trains are owned by Angel Trains and were leased to GWR in March. They will operate regional routes including Exeter St Davids, Penzance, Barnstaple and Okehampton, with the first units expected to enter service later this year.

Corrected.

 

[Ashley Hill]

The contract will directly support over 15 specialist roles and sustain other roles across Alstom’s wider UK supply chain.

Does this mean that Alstom will march into Laira and do the maintenance, or will they sponsor 15 current GWR fitters to do the work?

 

[DelW]

The contract will directly support over 15 specialist roles and sustain other roles across Alstom’s wider UK supply chain.

Does this mean that Alstom will march into Laira and do the maintenance, or will they sponsor 15 current GWR fitters to do the work?

"Technical Support and Spares Supply" roles might well be admin, procurement and advisory, rather than hands-on in the depot?

 

[simonmpoulton]

Sounds like a very sensible idea to get Alstom to help with the maintenance since they know exactly how to keep these units running reliably and how important it is to keep the engine bays clean. Shame that CAF didn't follow a similar approach!

 

[tfw756rider]

Sounds like a very sensible idea to get Alstom to help with the maintenance since they know exactly how to keep these units running reliably and how important it is to keep the engine bays clean. Shame that CAF didn't follow a similar approach!

Will Laira have the specific underframe washing thing in place like Chester (before CAF) did though?

 

[fgwrich]

Will Laira have the specific underframe washing thing in place like Chester (before CAF) did though?

A lot of investment is being put into place at Laira to both modernise it and make it suitable for the 175s, so it is likely they’ll be integrating some kind of underframe washing facility into that.

 

[tfw756rider]

A lot of investment is being put into place at Laira to both modernise it and make it suitable for the 175s, so it is likely they’ll be integrating some kind of underframe washing facility into that.

Thanks, that's good to hear According to @Elecman (post #1,002) the one at Chester was:

programmed to treat the various carriages differently to avoid dowsing the more sensitive bits of underframe equipment.

So hopefully the one at Laira will also be like that?

 

[Edge]

No further 175s have left Ely in recent weeks (the only moves that have are Networker scrap drags and HST powercars to the Mid-Norfolk railway storage), so I'm guessing GWR and others involved are still fine-tuning the units they have and once enough training and/or refurbishment has been done, more will come over.

Hi, did you manage to see the hst in blue livery today. Heading to Norfolk?
Sadly I didn't get the number on the power cab.

 

[43096]

Hi, did you manage to see the hst in blue livery today. Heading to Norfolk?
Sadly I didn't get the number on the power cab.

43423 and 43467.

 

[Obar123]

Hi, did you manage to see the hst in blue livery today. Heading to Norfolk?
Sadly I didn't get the number on the power cab.

43423 and 43467

 

[Edge]

43423 and 43467

Thank you!

 

[Robin Edwards]

would this be a 175 going from Wolverton to Exeter today?

Realtime Trains | 5V05 0934 Wolverton Centre Sidings to Exeter St Davids Prem Tran | 27/08/2025

Real-time train running information for 5V05 0934 departure from Wolverton Centre Sidings to Exeter St Davids Prem Tran on 27/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[BillStampy]

would this be a 175 going from Wolverton to Exeter today?

Realtime Trains | 5V05 0934 Wolverton Centre Sidings to Exeter St Davids Prem Tran | 27/08/2025

Real-time train running information for 5V05 0934 departure from Wolverton Centre Sidings to Exeter St Davids Prem Tran on 27/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Should be a 150.

 

[Snow1964]

Network Rail have today issued a notice of engineering works on Heart of Wales line, and chosen to illustrate it with a 175.

Clearly their staff haven't yet been informed 175s don't operate in Wales anymore

Buses to replace trains for major engineering works on the Heart of Wales Line

Network Rail Wales and Borders will be carrying out a programme of planned engineering and maintenance works on the Heart of Wales Line between Craven Arms Junction and Llandeilo Junction from 9pm on Friday 12 September to 5.30am on Saturday 20 September 2025.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Network Rail have today issued a notice of engineering works on Heart of Wales line, and chosen to illustrate it with a 175.

Clearly their staff haven't yet been informed 175s don't operate in Wales anymore

Buses to replace trains for major engineering works on the Heart of Wales Line

Network Rail Wales and Borders will be carrying out a programme of planned engineering and maintenance works on the Heart of Wales Line between Craven Arms Junction and Llandeilo Junction from 9pm on Friday 12 September to 5.30am on Saturday 20 September 2025.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Looks like that image has been used quite a lot over the last few months/years, it comes from Network Rail's media centre and is dated 2018.11.07

Passengers at Shrewsbury Station

Photo taken by Robert Mann

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Passengers at Shrewsbury Station

Regions:
Wales & Western: Wales & Borders
Wales & Western

Photo taken by Robert Mann

ShrewsburyRailStation2018.11.07-35.jpg
5063px * 3375px
15.19 MB

 

[tfw756rider]

Network Rail have today issued a notice of engineering works on Heart of Wales line, and chosen to illustrate it with a 175.

Clearly their staff haven't yet been informed 175s don't operate in Wales anymore

Buses to replace trains for major engineering works on the Heart of Wales Line

Network Rail Wales and Borders will be carrying out a programme of planned engineering and maintenance works on the Heart of Wales Line between Craven Arms Junction and Llandeilo Junction from 9pm on Friday 12 September to 5.30am on Saturday 20 September 2025.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Or indeed in Shropshire, West Midlands region of England! (Shrewsbury, Church Stretton, Craven Arms, Broome, Hopton Heath and Bucknell). 175s were rarely used on the Heart of Wales Line compared to 153s and 150s anyway.

 

[DelW]

Or indeed in Shropshire, West Midlands region of England! (Shrewsbury, Church Stretton, Craven Arms, Broome, Hopton Heath and Bucknell). 175s were rarely used on the Heart of Wales Line compared to 153s and 150s anyway.

Did the 175s ever work the HoW in passenger service? I thought they were only cleared to run ECS along it, mainly to get "back to base" whenever the southern Marches line was closed.

 

[tfw756rider]

Did the 175s ever work the HoW in passenger service? I thought they were only cleared to run ECS along it, mainly to get "back to base" whenever the southern Marches line was closed.

I don't know, all I remember is (can't remember who said it or where or when) someone said that when a 175 turned up it was like a "spaceship" compared to a 153. Anyway, we should probably leave it there in this thread

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Good news, but what is with RAIL getting dates wrong? The 175s were withdrawn from Transport for Wales (TfW) in 2023, not 2025.

They previously said that the first 769s entered service in 2021 (with Northern), rather than with TfW (in 2020).

How do they manage to mess up such things?

2025 is the correct date for the withdrawal of 175s from TfW as this is when they were returned off-lease. TfW had chosen not to use the trains for a period of time prior to 2025 but kept them on lease.

 

[tfw756rider]

(In) 2025(,) is the correct date for the withdrawal of 175s from TfW as this is when they were returned off-lease. TfW had chosen not to use the trains for a period of time prior to 2025 but kept them on lease.

Oh OK, yeah, that hadn't occurred to me.

However, I consider withdrawal of the trains from that operator to be the point at which they stopped using them (not the point at which they "could've used them until"), which in this case was 2023, so I disagree that 2025 is the "correct date" for the withdrawal of them from that operator.

I consider 2025 to merely be the "correct date" for them being off-leased by that operator. They had not been used for nearly 2 years (whether they "could've used them" more recently than that or not), and a lot of them were stored away from their network, in Ely in Eastern England.

The RAIL article stated:

The Class 175 fleet, originally built by Alstom in Birmingham between 1999 and 2001, was previously operated by Transport for Wales until earlier this year.

"This year" in this case is 2025, and I take the above statement to mean that Transport for Wales used Class 175 trains in passenger service until earlier this year / earlier in 2025. It actually said "operated by Transport for Wales until earlier this year".

I don't consider trains that were sat in storage to have been "operated" nearly 2 years after they were last actually operated (in passenger service), just because they were still on lease and "could've still been operated" (but weren't).

To say that they were operated until 2025 is just misleading, as they were last operated in 2023. "They could've still been used in 2025" doesn't count. They weren't!

The article should've just stated:

"The Class 175 fleet, originally built by Alstom in Birmingham between 1999 and 2001, was previously operated by Transport for Wales until late 2023."

 

[43096]

Oh OK, yeah, that hadn't occured to me.

However, I consider withdrawal of the trains from that operator to be the point at which they stopped using them (not the point at which they "could use them until"), which in this case was 2023, so I disagree that 2025 is the "correct date" for the withdrawal of them from that operator.

I consider 2025 to merely be the "correct date" for them being off-leased by that operator. They had not been used for nearly 2 years (whether they "could use them" more recently than that or not), and a lot of them were stored away from their network, in Ely in Eastern England.

“Withdrawn” is a specific term that applies to vehicles de-registered. The 175s have been off-leased by TfW; they are not withdrawn, as they are still registered on R2.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Oh OK, yeah, that hadn't occured to me.

However, I consider withdrawal of the trains from that operator to be the point at which they stopped using them (not the point at which they "could use them until"), which in this case was 2023, so I disagree that 2025 is the "correct date" for the withdrawal of them from that operator.

I consider 2025 to merely be the "correct date" for them being off-leased by that operator. They had not been used for nearly 2 years (whether they "could use them" more recently than that or not), and a lot of them were stored away from their network, in Ely in Eastern England.

The RAIL article stated:

"This year" in this case is 2025, and I take the above statement to mean that Transport for Wales used Class 175 trains in passenger service until earlier this year / earlier in 2025. It actually said "operated by Transport for Wales until earlier this year".

I don't consider trains sat in storage, but no longer in passenger service, to be "operated" nearly 2 years after they were last actually operated (in passenger service), just because they were still on lease and "could've still been operated" (but weren't).

To say that they were operated until 2025 is just misleading, as they were last operated in 2023. "They could've still been used in 2025" doesn't count. They weren't!

The article should've just stated:

"The Class 175 fleet, originally built by Alstom in Birmingham between 1999 and 2001, was previously operated by Transport for Wales until late 2023."

It smacks of TPE Mk5 sets which were withdrawn from passenger use in December 2023 IIRC, but the attempts to hand them back off lease have been mired by extended dilapidation inspections as I understand it. I believe the 175s went to Holyhead, Chester, Central Rivers and Landore before eventually being hauled off to Ely for handback.

 

[tfw756rider]

It smacks of TPE Mk5 sets which were withdrawn from passenger use in December 2023 IIRC, but the attempts to hand them back off lease have been mired by extended dilapidation inspections as I understand it. I believe the 175s went to Holyhead, Chester, Central Rivers and Landore before eventually being hauled off to Ely for handback.

Reply acknowledged.

Should be a 150.

Shame it's not a 175 (although it is Wolverton to Exeter rather than Laira), because I'm sure a lot of us would actually like to see a 175 come out of Wolverton because I don't think it's been confirmed exactly what's being done to the 175s there?

I understand that the 175s' driving seats are being upgraded to high-backed ones with head rests, and that some cab controls that are in the "wrong" place are being re-positioned. Are either or both of these changes being made at Wolverton?

I believe that Wolverton loaded the Transport for Wales Passenger Information System (PIS) data onto the two 150s that they borrowed from Northern. Is Great Western Railway (GWR) PIS data being loaded onto the 175s at Wolverton?

Finally, is any "GWR-ification" to the 175s' exterior/interior being done at Wolverton?

 

[BillStampy]

Shame it's not a 175 (although it is Wolverton to Exeter rather than Laira), because I'm sure a lot of us would actually like to see a 175 come out of Wolverton because I don't think it's been confirmed exactly what's being done to the 175s there?

I understand that the 175s' driving seats are being upgraded to high-backed ones with head rests, and that some cab controls that are in the "wrong" place are being re-positioned. Are either or both of these changes being made at Wolverton?

I believe that Wolverton loaded the Transport for Wales Passenger Information System (PIS) data onto the two 150s that they borrowed from Northern. Is Great Western Railway (GWR) PIS data being loaded onto the 175s at Wolverton?

Finally, is any "GWR-ification" to the 175s' exterior/interior being done at Wolverton?

The work has been underway for a significant amount of time now and I'm very eager to see what they've done with the units. I would assume that the GWR PIS will be loaded into the 175s there as it wouldn't make sense to have the TfW announcements working on a GWR service!