Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[EMU303]

Does the fleet numbering ever result in vehicles being re numbered to keep vehicle types in some sort of grouped sequence? Or does Lothian just take the next set of unused numbers?

It’s curious to see different operators deploy different approaches. I was in the Isle of Man recently and they group vehicles into 1xx for minibuses and short wheelbase single, 2xx for full size singles, and 3xx for double deckers, despite having just 70 vehicles in their fleet.

 

[Resuwen]

Where are we with the plans to replace the remaining 09/10 plates at ECB?

 

[Edirim]

Looks like a bzl in the main shed at marine, spotted from afar on the promenade poking out from the red shutters.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Looks like a bzl in the main shed at marine, spotted from afar on the promenade poking out from the red shutters.

It's 706, it probably swapped with 723 as the bus used for familiarisation.

 

[Avenger20]

Does the fleet numbering ever result in vehicles being re numbered to keep vehicle types in some sort of grouped sequence? Or does Lothian just take the next set of unused numbers?

It’s curious to see different operators deploy different approaches. I was in the Isle of Man recently and they group vehicles into 1xx for minibuses and short wheelbase single, 2xx for full size singles, and 3xx for double deckers, despite having just 70 vehicles in their fleet.

It has happened in the past. Last time I remember it happening was in 2005 when the first batch of B7s were delivered. The 04 tridents ran up to 705, however then 701-705 were renumbered to 628-632 to avoid clashing. This resulted in the renumbering of some of the 2001 batch of tridents but I can't recall what those movements were off hand. Someone will be along surely to clear it up I'm sure.

 

[Resuwen]

Would make sense these days to renumber the 10XX batch of ECB 18 plates into the 5XX series

 

[Graeme Duncan]

Regarding the 5XX series there is already 501-518 and 551-590 . My concept would be to renumber 1051-1062 519-530 respectively
and renumber the 10XX 301-350 and finally renumber 1000,1141-1153 531-544.

 

[stevenedin]

It has happened in the past. Last time I remember it happening was in 2005 when the first batch of B7s were delivered. The 04 tridents ran up to 705, however then 701-705 were renumbered to 628-632 to avoid clashing. This resulted in the renumbering of some of the 2001 batch of tridents but I can't recall what those movements were off hand. Someone will be along surely to clear it up I'm sure.

I'm sure that 628 was free and 666 was renumbered 628 about 10 years or so ago.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2025 ==

Regarding the 5XX series there is already 501-518 and 551-590 . My concept would be to renumber 1051-1062 519-530 respectively
and renumber the 10XX 301-350 and finally renumber 1000,1141-1153 531-544.

There probably wouldn't be a point in renumbering the ex London buses as they will probably be withdrawn soon but I agree with 1051-1062.

 

[Graeme Duncan]

An oversight in my part forgot 1029 is not with us anymore.
Ideally previous fleet numbers 1000-1028 , 1030-1050 new fleet numbers 301-350
1051-1062 new fleet numbers 519-530 and finally 1141-1153 new fleet numbers 531-543.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

It has happened in the past. Last time I remember it happening was in 2005 when the first batch of B7s were delivered. The 04 tridents ran up to 705, however then 701-705 were renumbered to 628-632 to avoid clashing. This resulted in the renumbering of some of the 2001 batch of tridents but I can't recall what those movements were off hand. Someone will be along surely to clear it up I'm sure.

You’re close, but this isn’t quite right.

Tridents 701-706 were renumbered 656-661 as result of the 55 plate B7TL’s taking up 701-750. As a consequence, other Tridents 657-661 (which had been new for Airlink) were renumbered to 629-633. Airlink spec 656 would become 634. Similarly, 51 plates 629-630 would become 599-600 while open top 631-634 became 31-34 the latter of which would become 531-534 after the delivery of the 7900’s.

I suspect all this movement was a a result of Transbus’ demise in 2004. Lothian would likely have had further orders of Tridents had this not happened, possibly up to 750? That happening meant a new general use bus was needed, so a return to Volvo but with Wrightbus bodywork was made. I’d therefore presume it was just easier to start these at a straightforward number at the start of a sequence. With it being so close to 700 and gaps available to fit the others, this was the choice made. 701-706 were also unbranded, directly following on from the 26’s branded batch which were 667-700. Again, another reason why it was favourable to move these down the numbers. This final batch 667-706 totalled 40 with the Airlink having a mix of 52, 53 and 04 plates (652-666) until these were replaced by the Scania’s in stages.

666 was renumbered 628 much later on after a minor fire. 51 plate 628 became 619 - that number being free as a result of the original 619 being wrote off in the guided busway crash.

 

[mb88]

I’ve noticed with the new X19 timetable there is a departure from Regent Road at 15:13 that does a part route to Kirkliston, arriving at 16:08 and departing at 16:24, 12 minutes after the previous service. Seems a bit strange as it leaves a gap of an hour between buses going to Winchburgh in the middle of the afternoon.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I’ve noticed with the new X19 timetable there is a departure from Regent Road at 15:13 that does a part route to Kirkliston, arriving at 16:08 and departing at 16:24, 12 minutes after the previous service. Seems a bit strange as it leaves a gap of an hour between buses going to Winchburgh in the middle of the afternoon.

I’m guessing it’s a particularly unreliable run which often runs late back into Edinburgh from Winchburgh at the moment. It’ll obviously do a peak run out of the city after that, now at 17.30 instead of 17:42. This means it’s now 5 mins in front of the 17:35 X38 as well. A classic competition tactic.

 

[Avenger20]

You’re close, but this isn’t quite right.

Tridents 701-706 were renumbered 656-661 as result of the 55 plate B7TL’s taking up 701-750. As a consequence, other Tridents 657-661 (which had been new for Airlink) were renumbered to 629-633. Airlink spec 656 would become 634. Similarly, 51 plates 629-630 would become 599-600 while open top 631-634 became 31-34 the latter of which would become 531-534 after the delivery of the 7900’s.

I suspect all this movement was a a result of Transbus’ demise in 2004. Lothian would likely have had further orders of Tridents had this not happened, possibly up to 750? That happening meant a new general use bus was needed, so a return to Volvo but with Wrightbus bodywork was made. I’d therefore presume it was just easier to start these at a straightforward number at the start of a sequence. With it being so close to 700 and gaps available to fit the others, this was the choice made. 701-706 were also unbranded, directly following on from the 26’s branded batch which were 667-700. Again, another reason why it was favourable to move these down the numbers. This final batch 667-706 totalled 40 with the Airlink having a mix of 52, 53 and 04 plates (652-666) until these were replaced by the Scania’s in stages.

666 was renumbered 628 much later on after a minor fire. 51 plate 628 became 619 - that number being free as a result of the original 619 being wrote off in the guided busway crash.

I knew I'd have gotten some details wrong - it was 20 years ago and I was 12 at the time, forgive me

 

[DunsBus]

I knew I'd have gotten some details wrong - it was 20 years ago and I was 12 at the time, forgive me

When 629 and 630 were renumbered to 599 and 600, it was the first time in 50 years that the latter two fleetnumbers had been used.

They had been allocated to two Leyland Titans due to be delivered alongside the 1979 intake of Atlanteans (hence the gap between 598 and 601) but fell foul of the well-documented production difficulties at Park Royal, and the Titans were subsequently cancelled.The initial pair of Olympians, 666 and 667, were their replacements.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Does anyone have a rough idea of when 751-798 were ordered? Am wondering what the time between being ordered and entering service is for 732 compared to 751.

Also, do we reckon that all of 751-760 will be in service by the end of the month? It's looking like both batches will likely be split in two with registrations, the first one half 74 and half 25, the second likely some 25 and most 75.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Does anyone have a rough idea of when 751-798 were ordered? Am wondering what the time between being ordered and entering service is for 732 compared to 751.

Also, do we reckon that all of 751-760 will be in service by the end of the month? It's looking like both batches will likely be split in two with registrations, the first one half 74 and half 25, the second likely some 25 and most 75.

I believe 760 onwards will be 75 plates?

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

I believe 760 onwards will be 75 plates?

75 plate BZLs sitting in Volvo Cardonald just now

 

[Bus9120UK]

759, 760, 762 and 769 have been enabled on the tracking system properly at Central's control room indicating they are all not far off. 769 is the only one of these to have also then appeared at Seafield later on.
There is 6, possibly more, at Volvo Cardonald.

In September Central will require 12/3 additional double deckers. They have gained 732, 746, 751-758 (10) but also lost 464-468 (5), so need a further 7/8.

In theory for the change Central will need 759-762/3 (4/5) or 759-765/6 (7/8) depending on how the movements work out. My understanding is 929-931 are no longer planned to be used at Central so at least the former must be happening.
If the former happens, then Central will need two or three other buses which I still assume would come from Longstone.

 

[overthewater]

What 5 buses are being sent into the Livingston Depot to help with planned changes in September?

I’ve noticed with the new X19 timetable there is a departure from Regent Road at 15:13 that does a part route to Kirkliston, arriving at 16:08 and departing at 16:24, 12 minutes after the previous service. Seems a bit strange as it leaves a gap of an hour between buses going to Winchburgh in the middle of the afternoon.

Rather Surprised they have done that, as there is now two 40min gaps at peak time IE 16.50 - 17.30 - 18.15. Also there is another cut, the 19.40 and 20.40 evening journeys from Edinburgh have been axed.

Where does the 15.55 Winchburgh to Edinburgh arr 17.00 disappear to? It's clear it going to operate something else, maybe 17.20 X27?

 

[Bus9120UK]

What 5 buses are being sent into the Livingston Depot to help with planned changes in September?



Rather Surprised they have done that, as there is now two 40min gaps at peak time IE 16.50 - 17.30 - 18.15. Also there is another cut, the 19.40 and 20.40 evening journeys from Edinburgh have been axed.

Where does the 15.55 Winchburgh to Edinburgh arr 17.00 disappear to? It's clear it going to operate something else, maybe 17.20 X27?

Lothian Country have two extra buses just now, 936 and 938. Any other buses will probably be further 10 plates and possible 09 plates.

Edit: It'll operate the 17:20 X18. The 17:20 X27 will remain as the current bus which comes off the school X27 service.

 

[paravostok]

Call for Edinburgh council to fund 'lifeline' Lothian Bus route to Kirkliston after service cut announced

As unfortunate as it is that the network in Kirkliston was slightly reduced, I saw it as an overall good thing due to the frequency and punctuality (in theory anyways) increasing, but how many people actually took the 72 all the way to Kirkliston? I'm not denying some did but surely not enough to warrant a fuss over it, or is it just a councillor being overzealous?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Call for Edinburgh council to fund 'lifeline' Lothian Bus route to Kirkliston after service cut announced

As unfortunate as it is that the network in Kirkliston was slightly reduced, I saw it as an overall good thing due to the frequency and punctuality (in theory anyways) increasing, but how many people actually took the 72 all the way to Kirkliston? I'm not denying some did but surely not enough to warrant a fuss over it, or is it just a councillor being overzealous?

Yes just sounds like a typical councillor who doesn’t have a clue what they’re talking about. Why they’ve taken until now to say something is anyone’s guess. As @overthewater said it’s not subsided by the council. It’s a bus improvement grant paid for by the developers at Winchburgh. Once that money runs out, it’s hoped the service can sustain itself commercially through growth. Kirkliston has never been commercially viable on the 72 while the rest of the route is. As such the frequency has been increased where it warrants it - the rest of the route. The poorly used section is therefore cut. I still stick by it though the new route in Winchburgh chosen is extremely poor. Many complaints have been made about this. It will be interesting to see if in a future service change whether or not the X19 and 72 ever interwork, but one of the routes would need to have a frequency change in any case. Whether or not these changes in September will help the 72’s reliability or not, I’m not so sure. Would adding on interworking with the X19 onto it be of any use either?

Given Edinburgh Council made drastic changes to the subsidy system at the last set of retenders, I would think it’s almost impossible for something else to be added.

The section to Kirkliston is poorly used and the X51 offers a faster route into Livingston that simply cannot be competed with. For those wishing to go to Uphall, Broxburn and St John’s there are plenty of routes still doable, albeit indirectly.

 

[Porty]

Visited the Climbing Centre for the first time for years and the new Lost Shore surf "resort". Amazed at the numbers there, though it was a gloriously sunny (non-Scottish) Bank Holiday Monday. Apparently they have major parking problems. It's in an awkward place for a bus service I know and it's down a dead end road but I do wonder if it could be better accessible by bus, if only at weekends. Maybe good signposting by foot from Ratho would help as there seems to be a pedestrian link directly up the slope to the village. My geography of this area, and bus routes, is poor however.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Visited the Climbing Centre for the first time for years and the new Lost Shore surf "resort". Amazed at the numbers there, though it was a gloriously sunny (non-Scottish) Bank Holiday Monday. Apparently they have major parking problems. It's in an awkward place for a bus service I know and it's down a dead end road but I do wonder if it could be better accessible by bus, if only at weekends. Maybe good signposting by foot from Ratho would help as there seems to be a pedestrian link directly up the slope to the village. My geography of this area, and bus routes, is poor however.

It’s one of those places that would always be difficult to access for a bus. Closest you can get is a 70 to the Bridge Inn in Ratho with a short walk along the Union Canal. I can’t see how it could be improved on.

 

[EMU303]

I take my hat off to bus drivers, the things they have to deal with….
Today near Tollcross in Edinburgh a car stopped half in / half out of a bus lane, where it was clear no parking was permitted, the driver deciding that was a good enough place to abandon his car whilst he went into a shop!
Unfortunately a double deck bus was already right behind him and unable to reverse (across a junction). The bus driver was left with no option but to continually sound the horn until - a few minutes later - the car driver emerged from the shop and walked deliberately very slowly back towards his car. He then walked past his car and approached the bus. Words were exchanged and the car driver was verbally abusive to the bus driver. The car driver then - again very slowly - walked back to his his car, got in, and took an eternity to put his seat belt on, adjust his mirror etc before driving off.
Another illustration that a minority of people do as they please, with two fingers to everyone else even though they know they’re in the wrong. Woe betide anyone who dares challenge or have the temerity to point out their selfishness and the inconvenience it causes everyone else.

Later today in a coffee shop, two posh ladies chatting. One checks her phone to read a message that her daughter has been issued with a parking fine of £100. “Outrageous, ridiculous, disgraceful “ says the mother. Her friend asks “did she over run her time?”. The mother replied “oh no, she never pays for parking and always chances it”…
Two examples, I suspect from the opposite ends of society, both utterly selfish and entitled. But it did cheer me to hear of the £100 fine even though the other bus blocker got away with it - unless Lothian Buses have cameras?!

 

[Siemens Trains]

I take my hat off to bus drivers, the things they have to deal with….
Today near Tollcross in Edinburgh a car stopped half in / half out of a bus lane, where it was clear no parking was permitted, the driver deciding that was a good enough place to abandon his car whilst he went into a shop!
Unfortunately a double deck bus was already right behind him and unable to reverse (across a junction). The bus driver was left with no option but to continually sound the horn until - a few minutes later - the car driver emerged from the shop and walked deliberately very slowly back towards his car. He then walked past his car and approached the bus. Words were exchanged and the car driver was verbally abusive to the bus driver. The car driver then - again very slowly - walked back to his his car, got in, and took an eternity to put his seat belt on, adjust his mirror etc before driving off.
Another illustration that a minority of people do as they please, with two fingers to everyone else even though they know they’re in the wrong. Woe betide anyone who dares challenge or have the temerity to point out their selfishness and the inconvenience it causes everyone else.

Later today in a coffee shop, two posh ladies chatting. One checks her phone to read a message that her daughter has been issued with a parking fine of £100. “Outrageous, ridiculous, disgraceful “ says the mother. Her friend asks “did she over run her time?”. The mother replied “oh no, she never pays for parking and always chances it”…
Two examples, I suspect from the opposite ends of society, both utterly selfish and entitled. But it did cheer me to hear of the £100 fine even though the other bus blocker got away with it - unless Lothian Buses have cameras?!

Certainly frustrating but maybe bad practice to drive so close behind a vehicle that you won't be able to pull out if it becomes immobile for some reason. However I know buses tend to queue hard up against each other for the best of reasons such as preserving road space or discouraging pedestrians from crossing between them.

There could be all sorts of other technicalities at play, such as whether the car had a blue badge (sounds like its driver had some kind of disability), if the bus lane was within its hours of operation, if the vehicle was 'waiting' or 'loading' and so on.

 

[LBObserver]

Certainly frustrating but maybe bad practice to drive so close behind a vehicle that you won't be able to pull out if it becomes immobile for some reason. However I know buses tend to queue hard up against each other for the best of reasons such as preserving road space or discouraging pedestrians from crossing between them.

There could be all sorts of other technicalities at play, such as whether the car had a blue badge (sounds like its driver had some kind of disability), if the bus lane was within its hours of operation, if the vehicle was 'waiting' or 'loading' and so on.

Curious as a blue badge holder myself, as to what draws you to the conclusion that it "sounds like its driver had some kind of disability".

It sounds to me more like just another arsehole who gives us car drivers a bad reputation. I wouldn't dream of parking inappropriately, using a bus lane in restricted hours or verbally abusing a bus driver. Indeed I usually slow down if possible and flash buses waiting to leave bus stops and receive either a thumbs up or hazard light flash from grateful bus drivers.

More of us should show the same consideration. It is irritating as a bus passenger being held up by (mostly) car drivers refusing to let the bus out, especially when the traffic just ahead has stopped. We would all get to our destinations faster and maybe more people would switch to bus use for at least some journeys if more car and van drivers didn't take a selfish "me first" attitude.

 

[stantheman]

23 is all electric today . B9s seem to have gone to the 47 . Any idea of next route for electrics ?

 

[Lothiangem22]

23 is all electric today . B9s seem to have gone to the 47 . Any idea of next route for electrics ?

I’d suggest the 27 from central and 5 from marine will be next

 

[Siemens Trains]

Curious as a blue badge holder myself, as to what draws you to the conclusion that it "sounds like its driver had some kind of disability".

From the description of a slow-moving person with short fuse, perhaps someone with mobility issues, mental disorder or cognitive impairment.

It sounds to me more like just another arsehole who gives us car drivers a bad reputation.

Absolutely - it totally rips ma knittin' as well.
Unfortunately we need to accept that consideration levels will vary between individuals and on balance it's probably best for other road users to take this into account. In these situations bus drivers often assume a stress-free 'sit back with folded arms' position or read a newspaper until the road clears.