Travelling with bicycles during disruption

[johncrossley]

If tickets are being accepted on local buses, or replacement buses have been put on because of unplanned disruption, can you use alternative train routes that wouldn't normally be allowed by passengers without bikes?

If your early morning or mid afternoon train is cancelled, when bike restrictions are not in force, can you use the next train even if bike restrictions apply on that train?

If you have an Advance ticket but there is no space for bikes on the train, can you use the next train?

 

[Paul AC]

I suspect the simple answer is "no you can't" but you can "ask on the day".

Example from a year so ago: I live in Altrincham and had taken my bike on the train to Chester (easy and free with Northern) to do a long bike ride west from there. On returning to Chester early evening I found the Altrincham line trains in disarray with buses (bike not allowed) and a big unknown delay to the next likely direct train. There was a Northern service to Manchester via Warrington departing soon, which my ticket would not be valid on. I spoke to a member of staff at Chester, explained the situation, and offered to cycle home from Manchester if he authorised my ticket on that train - which he was happy to do. Much easier to cycle home from Manchester than from Chester! I'm sure the train guard would also have authorised that if no station staff had been available.

 

[Watershed]

The NRCoT doesn't really deal with this situation at all. The industry seems to treat bikes as some sort of gesture of goodwill (not dissimilar to first class catering!) which they can choose to withdraw at any point without liability. The position seems to be that as long as they're offering a refund on your ticket, they have no further obligations.

Of course that's not how it works legally speaking. By offering to carry your bike - even for free - they have an obligation to take you to your destination (with your bike) even during disruption. It's obviously different if there are planned engineering works or similar, where the ability to take bikes wouldn't have been advertised in the first place.

Certainly if there are alternative rail routes, and waiting for the next available train via your booked route/TOC would be anticipated to cause a delay of more than 1 hour, you'd be entitled to request re-routing under Article 16(a) of the Passenger Rights and Obligations (PRO) Regulation.

That obligation requires the responsible train operator to re-route you "at the earliest opportunity, subject to comparable transport conditions". The latter in particular would imply the obligation to provide an option that accepts bikes where you were originally entitled to take a bike.

On the ground, the reaction from staff to a re-routing request will largely be based on their goodwill (which will sometimes be forthcoming, but not always). I'm not aware of any TOCs that brief/train their staff on the PRO or how to make sure passengers' rights are honoured.

If you are refused re-routing, you ideally want to get evidence of this in writing; a request to a TOC's social media team is, in my experience, the best way of getting a quick written response. You can then rely on that wrongful refusal to recover the resultant damages, e.g. any new tickets you're forced to buy.

 

[BurtonM]

I've had this problem before with Northern (used to be a cycle courier and I'd commute into the city by rail). If there's an RRB/alternative transport provision in place, despite the website saying they encourage cycling, Northern's official stance is 'it's at the discretion of the transport provider' - ie 'not our problem' and they effectively absolve all responsibility - you really do have to just go and find a guard or someone that will authorise an alternative as a courtesy (if there is one), and hope for the best as they genuinely will just abandon you if there's no solution. It's a joke really. Not even 'check before you travel', the official advice is basically to gamble.

Generally, the RRB providers refuse to carry full size cycles - I've had the odd one where it's been a coach and the driver has allowed it in the hold (though admittedly, this has been when there are next to no passengers or luggage), but if it's a service bus (ie a single/double deck, not a coach) they'll pretty much always say no (had a TPE one recently where a passenger with a dog became aggressive as the bus driver had put a hand written note on the door stating 'no cycles, no food, no dogs' and refused to let anyone board until he left). I think I've heard of even folding bikes being refused sometimes.

Once a few years ago on my bike, I was met with a bustitution at Manchester Victoria - this was when Northern still ran the Huddersfield stopper, it was late in the evening (~11pm) and there were no staff in the station, and no alternative services. A local Stagecoach E400 was the replacement - the Stagecoach driver was uncertain if he could carry the bike, so called his depot who said it wasn't permitted, and instructed him not to allow me to travel.

The Northern transport coordinator proposed that I leave my bicycle in Manchester and board the RRB without it, and failed to see why that wasn't appropriate advice. I managed to travel thanks to a sympathetic coach driver that could see things from my perspective, but if it wasn't for that I think I'd have been making a rather substantial complaint...

 

[Jan Mayen]

What would be a cyclists preferred solution in the event of either disruption or planned engineering works?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What would be a cyclists preferred solution in the event of either disruption or planned engineering works?

Coach type vehicles where possible, so it can go in the hold.

If it does have to be left locked up due to unplanned disruption, a free Anytime Return to retrieve it.

Acceptance via a suitable route by rail rather than bus.

 

[davp]

What would be a cyclists preferred solution in the event of either disruption or planned engineering works?

Its happened a few times to me returning from Edinburgh to West Lothian (20 miles). A couple of times I've been able to get to a closer station and make my way from there, but normally I've cycled it. The one after a nightshift wasn't fun.

Long distance could be difficult. Most bike insurance doesn't cover leaving a bike unattended at a station more than 18-24h, so there's keeping it secure if you have to leave it. I can see some situations where an overnight stay might be a better option and continue the next day. Returning to London from Edinburgh to collect a bike would be seriously inconvenient. Having some replacement transport that can carry bikes is probably the best solution.

 

[BurtonM]

What would be a cyclists preferred solution in the event of either disruption or planned engineering works?

If cycles are permitted on a service, that level of service should be maintained across replacement transport - if a bus refuses to carry a cycle then alternative provisions need to be made for the cyclist.
Telling someone to abandon their (potentuially expensive) possessions as a condition of travel isn't appropriate IMO, you wouldn't tell someone to leave a suitcase behind. If the bike was damaged while being stored as a result of this, I somehow doubt the TOC would be willing to claim liability and that's not a risk I'd be willing to take.
If I needed to make a journey to retrieve the bicycle, I'd want free travel plus expenses given how far out of my way I'd have to go to do that within a reasonable timeframe.

 

[stra200]

There is an example on this forum of someone having to taxi home with their bike and getting the taxi refunded, but the train company saying it's a one-off

Train cancelled and left stranded - TfW says they can't help?

Hi, I booked an advance ticket from Tenby to Cardiff via Carmarthen. I cycled to Tenby and when I got there I saw the first leg of the journey (Tenby - Carmarthen) was cancelled and this was the last train of the day. I rang TfW who told me that they're arranging busses but bikes aren't allowed...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[agk2126]

If it does have to be left locked up due to unplanned disruption, a free Anytime Return to retrieve it.

This would be an elegant solution not just for bicycles, but for large luggage in general during certain disruptions (replacement buses, short formed services, or unexpected connections to Tube lines, especially the smaller deep-level lines). I've been on several crowded Chiltern services cancelled at West Ruislip, with passengers instructed to switch to the Central Line into London. Not feasible with cycles or even large bags. As you said, passengers would need secure storage and an Anytime Return, of course. Still, this seems like the least worst solution (or at least option) in many unplanned disruptions.

Surely some passengers would take this option, if offered. It is less clear (and apparently not satisfactorily addressed in the NRCoT) whether anyone should be required to surrender/store their cycles/luggage to continue their journey. Airlines in similar situations (aircraft substitutions, weight restrictions, positive passenger bag match issues, or customs delays), if forced to separate passengers from their belongings, will nearly always send them by courier to the passenger's chosen address. Would a similar system (like the Boris bike redistribution vans) work for railway disruptions, and if so, should a ToC be required to source them?

Its happened a few times to me returning from Edinburgh to West Lothian (20 miles). A couple of times I've been able to get to a closer station and make my way from there, but normally I've cycled it. The one after a nightshift wasn't fun.

This too raises interesting questions. How appropriate is it to expect cyclists to be able/willing to cycle a reasonable distance to catch a different train? For example, if the final London-bound train of the night is cancelled at Bicester Village, and one or more passengers have non-folding cycles (which they can't take on a local bus or taxi), can the solution be to cycle ~2km over to Bicester North? What about between two London terminals? If Exeter or Oxford trains are cancelled from Paddington, can cyclists be instructed to cycle over to Waterloo or Marylebone, respectively?

 

[BurtonM]

There is an example on this forum of someone having to taxi home with their bike and getting the taxi refunded, but the train company saying it's a one-off

Train cancelled and left stranded - TfW says they can't help?

Hi, I booked an advance ticket from Tenby to Cardiff via Carmarthen. I cycled to Tenby and when I got there I saw the first leg of the journey (Tenby - Carmarthen) was cancelled and this was the last train of the day. I rang TfW who told me that they're arranging busses but bikes aren't allowed...

www.railforums.co.uk

Given the conclusions made in this thread, do Northern need to rewrite their cycle policy that defers the choice to carry cycles on replacement transport to the external provider at the point of travel?

 

[Magdalen Road]

This too raises interesting questions. How appropriate is it to expect cyclists to be able/willing to cycle a reasonable distance to catch a different train? For example, if the final London-bound train of the night is cancelled at Bicester Village, and one or more passengers have non-folding cycles (which they can't take on a local bus or taxi), can the solution be to cycle ~2km over to Bicester North? What about between two London terminals? If Exeter or Oxford trains are cancelled from Paddington, can cyclists be instructed to cycle over to Waterloo or Marylebone, respectively?

My experience in May where taxis were used as replacement transport was:
(no trains running north from Cambridge due to plastic sheets wrapped around the OHL, also happened on the previous day and it'd taken hours then to be sorted)
1. Different messages, misdirection and misinformation by station staff about how or whether a taxi would carry a bike.
2. The taxis pulling up to the rank were mostly refusing to carry bikes or couldn't fit one
3. Despite being told someone in the station would book a suitable taxi, they member of staff refused and said we'd have to wait the unknown time for service to be restored (various cyclists by this point - Cambridge!).

4. As I'd done 100 miles on an overnight ride and was very tired by this point, I really needed to get home.
Leaving a bike locked up in Cambridge overnight is pointless, you might as well give it away.
So I cycled an additional 20-odd miles home.
The others booked Ubers at £40 each.
Conclusion - nobody cared and one member of station staff seemed to be enjoying telling us to wait.