Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Baileygirl]

I think the timetable is wrong. The change will be solving the issue of two buses being at the terminus at the same time with the new 72 frequency.

Going to be rather frustrating for passengers as they get on at the shops then have to sit 15 to 30 mins at Eastfield Road. Could be that they will do the loop again when departing Eastfield Road.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

In a different turn of events. 496 has gone out into service at Marine, currently on an X37. Possibly a temporary move as Seafield is full with the existing Skylink refurbs to ECB and nearly 10 BZL’s, among other things. Handy Festival extra for Marine until their BZL’s are ready, which shouldn’t be long. 496 may stay, but I still ultimately expect it to be ECB bound.

 

[Graeme Duncan]

Does anybody know if e732 and e746 have arrived at Seafield or Ferrymill or wherever.

 

[Resuwen]

7 batch 2 BZL now on the tracking

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

7 batch 2 BZL now on the tracking

I’m assuming you’re talking about which batch 2 BZL’s are on the tracking system.

What you’ve said is slightly incorrect. There are 7 listed on bustimes, as these ones have been switched on. However, bustimes is not ‘the tracking system’. It’s ultimately a database with live tracking/timetables etc. It relies on several feeds to work.

All 48 are listed on and have been on the tracking system for several weeks now. Most of them have not been switched on, as they have not been delivered.

 

[Resuwen]

I’m assuming you’re talking about which batch 2 BZL’s are on the tracking system.

What you’ve said is slightly incorrect. There are 7 listed on bustimes, as these ones have been switched on. However, bustimes is not ‘the tracking system’. It’s ultimately a database with live tracking/timetables etc. It relies on several feeds to work.

All 48 are listed on and have been on the tracking system for several weeks now. Most of them have not been switched on, as they have not been delivered.

Thank you, a comprehensive update

 

[Bus9120UK]

Thank you, a comprehensive update

Worth adding that 753e is also delivered to Lothian with reg SF25 YNG.
732e also remains at Seafield.

 

[Acfb]

Forgive me, but the whole point of a loop is exactly that. It’s a loop? It’s designed to serve everywhere usually where no suitable turning point exists or if time constraints can be issue. Depends on specifics. Lothian 100% have opted for the anti-clockwise loop based on turns and the consistency below demonstrates this.

There are countless examples of anti clockwise loops:

3 and 30 in Clovenstone
10 in Bonaly - though this is more of a space issue.
14 in Muirhouse
20 in The Calders
23 in Trinity
25 in Restalrig - again a space issue.
44 in Balerno
47 in Ladywood

Lothian usually almost always opt for anti-clockwise loops. Only if a one way system dictates the route might this be broken or if there are issues with parking, such as the 72 in Kirkliston. In this case it’s signal controlled on the right turns anyway. So in short, no it’s probably nothing to do with local knowledge. It’s more than likely a safety decision.

The 3 in Mayfield stands out as an odd one out and I suspect this is to do with the overflow and its position. There will be a small number of exceptions to this, but in each case safety reasons will have been assessed and any justifications will need to be demonstrated. The 73 in Blackburn is a rare example of this.

The 10 to Bonaly used to go clockwise until they changed it to anti clockwise at some point in the last 20 years. I think it works better now going down Westgarth Avenue the same way as the 16 and is better for folk living on or just off Bonaly Rd coming back from town given how steep it is.

 

[oldman]

The 10 to Bonaly used to go clockwise until they changed it to anti clockwise at some point in the last 20 years. I think it works better now going down Westgarth Avenue the same way as the 16 and is better for folk living on or just off Bonaly Rd coming back from town given how steep it is.

I don't think it ever went clockwise in Bonaly. At one time it did a detour off Colinton Road up to Redford Drive then down Westgarth but at that time there was no service into Bonaly.

 

[Auld reekie]

The app is all over the place today.

 

[Grumpyscot]

The app is all over the place today.

Not surprising with the half marathon taking place. It was running 45 minutes late because of shuttle bus chaos. Then not helped by Port Seton being log jammed by people expecting to get through to the A1 at 11.25..... delayed until 12.40. Traffic backed up in all directions - even on to the A1 from Edinburgh. Friend was to pick wife up in Longniddry at 13.00 but he couldn't get out of Prestonpans eastwards. He managed to use Birsley Brae which got him to Tranent, then to Macmerry > Gladsmuir then down the coal road to Longniddry. Friend in Port Seton said there were hardly any shuttle buses from Prestonpans to Seton Sands and none appeared till the traffic cleared. And to think our street was due to be closed from 10am.... but they shut it at 8.30am, meaning someone had to run up to the main road to fetch medication from a carer for the old dear across the road. Total screw up and total lack of thought to the traffic. Port Seton people just couldn't get out of the village by any route and at least 375 houses in Longniddry were hemmed in! At least the Edinburgh (though mostly held in East lothian) Marathon us better as only the coast road is used and diversion routes are simple.

 

[Auld reekie]

Not surprising with the half marathon taking place. It was running 45 minutes late because of shuttle bus chaos. Then not helped by Port Seton being log jammed by people expecting to get through to the A1 at 11.25..... delayed until 12.40. Traffic backed up in all directions - even on to the A1 from Edinburgh. Friend was to pick wife up in Longniddry at 13.00 but he couldn't get out of Prestonpans eastwards. He managed to use Birsley Brae which got him to Tranent, then to Macmerry > Gladsmuir then down the coal road to Longniddry. Friend in Port Seton said there were hardly any shuttle buses from Prestonpans to Seton Sands and none appeared till the traffic cleared. And to think our street was due to be closed from 10am.... but they shut it at 8.30am, meaning someone had to run up to the main road to fetch medication from a carer for the old dear across the road. Total screw up and total lack of thought to the traffic. Port Seton people just couldn't get out of the village by any route and at least 375 houses in Longniddry were hemmed in! At least the Edinburgh (though mostly held in East lothian) Marathon us better as only the coast road is used and diversion routes are simple.

Thanks for that well informed post.

 

[Acfb]

I don't think it ever went clockwise in Bonaly. At one time it did a detour off Colinton Road up to Redford Drive then down Westgarth but at that time there was no service into Bonaly.

The 10 has definitely served Bonaly since at least the year 2000 and probably before that. Generally it only ran Mon-Sat with a stronger service on the Torphin branch until all 10 buses went to Bonaly in 2022. I have just checked a Lothian buses timetable booklet/map from 2004 and it the loop appears to be the same as now.

I do remember some sort of change to its direction in Westgarth Ave etc in what must have been the early 2000s. I remember most of the details of the 2002 and 2003 service changes such as e.g. when they split the 16 to both Hunters Tryst and Colinton in 2003 so perhaps it was around then.

 

[atfd26]

Why do the Longstone 6xx buses get the Lothian Logo replaced so quickly i.e 664, 619. Whereas the central ones never get replaced 682 for example hasn't had it since September 2022?

 

[Bus9120UK]

Why do the Longstone 6xx buses get the Lothian Logo replaced so quickly i.e 664, 619. Whereas the central ones never get replaced 682 for example hasn't had it since September 2022?

Marine is no better, 637 and 639 were both missing their rear logos but didn't take long to get them back once relocated to Longstone.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Why do the Longstone 6xx buses get the Lothian Logo replaced so quickly i.e 664, 619. Whereas the central ones never get replaced 682 for example hasn't had it since September 2022?

same with the Evoras etc..

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Why do the Longstone 6xx buses get the Lothian Logo replaced so quickly i.e 664, 619. Whereas the central ones never get replaced 682 for example hasn't had it since September 2022?

Longstone staff do more thorough checks on buses both presentation and performance wise. They did lots of work on 426-437.

 

[oldman]

I do remember some sort of change to its direction in Westgarth Ave etc in what must have been the early 2000s. I remember most of the details of the 2002 and 2003 service changes such as e.g. when they split the 16 to both Hunters Tryst and Colinton in 2003 so perhaps it was around then.

I wonder if the change in Westgarth was from the 10 using it from town for the Redford Drive diversion, to using it to town coming down from Bonaly, both downhill, rather than a change in direction of travel from downhill to uphill. It was a long time ago!

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Does anyone know the maximum allocation capacities of each depot? Not current allocation, but maximum capacity. Obviously some will be much higher than others.

 

[Numpt33]

I'm guessing current design was reached with cost / safety and ease of maintenance in mind. Don't feel it's evolved much in the last 40+ years really? Obviously not a Lothian specific issue.

Worth a rethink in modern times tho? Whether you prescribe to global warming or not, things aren't cooling down any. I'd prefer AC to become defacto standard on electrics and phased in that way. Not looking like that will happen though, it's still uncommon (cost I assume is the main driver there)

Small openings for windows are because of the presence of AC.

Generally speaking, AC works best when there is less air exchange between inside and outside the bus. AC units become a waste of time if all the windows are all open as thevAC unit is trying to dry and cool most of earth's atmosphere.

AC should be turned off if all the windows are open. Once it's closed, the AC works but normies won't tolerate all the windows being closed when it's a stiflingly hot day.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Does anyone know the maximum allocation capacities of each depot? Not current allocation, but maximum capacity. Obviously some will be much higher than others.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

View attachment 186585

I don’t think that’s correct as there’s countless errors in that. Livingston with 1? Central, Longstone and Marine all have over 100, Central over 200.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Does anyone know the maximum allocation capacities of each depot? Not current allocation, but maximum capacity. Obviously some will be much higher than others.

Longstones at least 200 im pretty sure they had an allocation about 250 maybe nearer 300 in 2018/19 time

 

[Dfatcontroller]

I don’t think that’s correct as there’s countless errors in that. Livingston with 1? Central, Longstone and Marine all have over 100, Central over 200.

Can only go with the information supplied at the official source!

 

[Volvodart]

View attachment 186585

That is East Coast Buses. Lothian buses is 320 each for Central Longstone and Marine, 65 Seafield, 75 Newbridge and 30 Livingston

 

[Stan Drews]

That is East Coast Buses. Lothian buses is 320 each for Central Longstone and Marine, 65 Seafield, 75 Newbridge and 30 Livingston

That is simply the maximum authorisation at each operating centre on the licence. It doesn’t actually equate to the maximum physical capacity of each location, if that is what the original query is actually seeking.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

That is simply the maximum authorisation at each operating centre on the licence. It doesn’t actually equate to the maximum physical capacity of each location, if that is what the original query is actually seeking.

Yes, my original question was what can each depot actually fit in terms of buses.

The license if anything confuses things, as has been demonstrated there are often multiple licenses in one depot and as you say that’s purely licensed buses and not actual capacity.

 

[stevenedin]

1004 seems to have moved to Longstone recently.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

1004 seems to have moved to Longstone recently.

Yes 400->1004->496. Marine temporarily up 1 as they’ve picked up 496 as opposed to it going to Seafield - which has been rather full of late.

505 is finished and I suspect 501 and 503 won’t be far behind.

373 and 393 have finally swapped as well which means the 10 intended 11 plates for Marine have all now transferred.

 

[Bus9120UK]

1004 seems to have moved to Longstone recently.

1004 is the last of the ten buses to move away from Marine now that 391-400 have repositioned.

Overall, 496-510 (15) were replaced by 1002-1004, 670-680 (14) moving from Central and Marine. The April 6th service change may have changed the vehicle requirements which is why only 14 buses were added in place of 15.

As mentioned, 496 is currently in use at Marine, and could be required for the PVR increase on the 5 in September. This assumes that 751-758 will be based at Central to convert route 1 to deckers alongside 929-931. Alternatively it's just there temporary while Seafield and Thornton's are both busy with other refurbishments (and 751-758 may be positioned at Marine instead).

If 751-758 are positioned to Marine, then that should allow a few vehicles to move from Marine to Central for the 1. Alternatively 751-758 could also be split across both Central and Marine.

933-935 are currently extra at Longstone now that all of these movements have been completed, but I doubt that will stay the case from September. It opens further options for vehicle movements, as there isn't any double deck PVR changes at Longstone (feel free to correct), which means that any three buses from Longstone could be moved to Central to help with the conversion of route 1 as well.