GWR fare increases

[Starmill]

Regulation is a red herring. The London - Edinburgh fare was "regulated" but the single price has roughly doubled on many services on weekends.

 

[Horizon22]

Is £2.80 each way for Slough to Maidenhead too high, too low, or about right in comparative terms?

At that level you’re probably getting into bus comparisons. So it depends on the frequency and journey time of the equivalent bus service and if gets you closer to where you want to be.

Slough - Maidenhead is 6tph (4 Elizabeth line, 2 GWR) when not disrupted and off-peak and it will definitely win on time vs a bus.

 

[Starmill]

I'd say that for a journey of almost 6 miles it's quite reasonable.

Around 50p a mile being quite reasonable is one that would provoke a good bit of debate I think.

 

[Haywain]

Around 50p a mile being quite reasonable is one that would provoke a good bit of debate I think.

I'm comparing with rail journeys of similar distance in the London commuter area. But it will still be cheaper than a bus, I would wager.

 

[Kite159]

Regulation is a red herring. The London - Edinburgh fare was "regulated" but the single price has roughly doubled on many services on weekends.

Especially when those weekends involve the WCML either being closed or running a reduced service with extended journey times (was it something like 7 hours from Glasgow to London last bank holiday weekend with diverts via Manchester & Bescot).

 

[Starmill]

I'm comparing with rail journeys of similar distance in the London commuter area. But it will still be cheaper than a bus, I would wager.

If you take a look at the very extensive discussion in the Bus forum you will see precisely what I mean about 50p a mile being considered acceptable value for money there!

 

[unsatisfied]

Which makes sense in a way, getting rid of off-peak fares when they only offer a tiny (10p) saving over the anytime fare. Making things 'simpler' by doing away with confusing terms such as off-peak, although hopefully it's only on those flows where the two prices are nearly the same.

Doing this may make things simpler, but for unhealthy reasons. An Anytime Day Return from Slough to Maidenhead and back is £5.60, and an Anytime Day Single is £5.40. If the single fare was removed no-one would buy it being a simplification - it's important not to forget that we have a suboptimal National Rail faring system instead of accepting the downsides brought by it.

TfL contactless is currently £2.80 at any time in either direction. BR Fares says that it used to be £2.80 peak and £2.70 off-peak. The change observed might have been caused by keeping GWR return fares double the respective peak or off-peak TfL contactless fares (which have just become identical).

 

[OneOfThe48]

As others have said, there can be absolutely no justification for this given that the normal annual increase has already been set as 1 percentage point above RPI (which itself exceeds true inflation).

The justification will almost certainly be that, like most operators, GWR continues to be reliant on taxpayer subsidy and the DfT want that level of subsidy to reduce, and a way to do that is by raising fares to increase revenue.

Whether you think that justification is fair is up to you!

 

[Starmill]

Doing this may make things simpler, but for unhealthy reasons. An Anytime Day Return from Slough to Maidenhead and back is £5.60, and an Anytime Day Single is £5.40. If the single fare was removed no-one would buy it being a simplification - it's important not to forget that we have a suboptimal National Rail faring system instead of accepting the downsides brought by it.

TfL contactless is currently £2.80 at any time in either direction. BR Fares says that it used to be £2.80 peak and £2.70 off-peak. The change observed might have been caused by keeping GWR return fares double the respective peak or off-peak TfL contactless fares (which have just become identical).

This sounds defeatist, but the truth is nearly everybody making a non-London journey in the home counties is driving. It's pure random chance that this journey has a fast, frequent train service. Pretty much everywhere you could conceive to go from Maidenhead that's not towards Reading or Slough has an overpriced, slow, infrequent, dirty and rundown public transport service. Indeed that applies to most English public transport that's not to or from London generally. Nearly everyone will just drive, even if it actually costs slightly more in car parking fees and takes ever so slightly longer on bad traffic days. You won't get yourself anywhere worrying about it being a simplification or not, or what people will or won't believe. Ultimately they simply won't care.

The best approach is probably to just focus on finding ways for you personally to travel without feeling you've been completely ripped off. Nobody at the train operator or in the government cares if you use public transport or not, so it's a case of knowing when to argue, and when to take what you can and give nothing back.

 

[mickey]

This is an example of that phenomenon of people complaining about there not being a discount for travelling off-peak, once the anytime fare is the only fare available. Is £2.80 each way for Slough to Maidenhead too high, too low, or about right in comparative terms?

The point is that a cheaper ticket category has been completely and summarily withdrawn, not whether the (higher) price is ok in itself. The difference in the previous fare submission might only have been 10p, but a year ago it was 30p - so the off-peak fare has increased faster than the anytime one. As I said previously, if this is a trial then it’s a very slippery slope.

I’ve also noticed GWR beefing up their onboard revenue teams over the last couple of months - to be clear I have no problem at all with this (with one sole exception the new staff are very polite and helpful), but perhaps further proof they’re trying hard to eke out more pennies wherever they can. It’s a shame really that their gatelines let them down… both Slough and Maidenhead have secondary exits that are left open more than they’re closed, as staff prefer to go and have a chat with their mates on the other side of the station than actually do their jobs. And of course Twyford has no gates (or staff) at all.

 

[Hadders]

Why is that? I thought private operators make money from higher ticket prices?

Just on fares regulation it isn't perfect but during the privitised era it has at least put a ceiling on fares for leisure travel and 'commuter' fares into London.

Many people think nationalisation is going to mean cheaper fares but the evidence suggests otherwise. Just look at what we're seeing on nationalised LNER where regulated fares have all but gone.

I fear we're all going to have to get used to some pretty big fares increases in the coming years as well as less transparency.

 

[cactustwirly]

Which makes sense in a way, getting rid of off-peak fares when they only offer a tiny (10p) saving over the anytime fare. Making things 'simpler' by doing away with confusing terms such as off-peak, although hopefully it's only on those flows where the two prices are nearly the same.

Yet other flows it's nigh on double the price
Kind of sets a dangerous precedent

 

[Bletchleyite]

Doing this may make things simpler, but for unhealthy reasons. An Anytime Day Return from Slough to Maidenhead and back is £5.60, and an Anytime Day Single is £5.40. If the single fare was removed no-one would buy it being a simplification - it's important not to forget that we have a suboptimal National Rail faring system instead of accepting the downsides brought by it.

What that needs is to be "Ovalled" i.e. the paper ticket fares brought fully in line with the contactless ones and single fare priced with standardised time restrictions per the TfL ones. It's only not happened because this is an earlier part of the contactless rollout. All the new Oval rollouts seem to be doing this.

 

[cactustwirly]

What that needs is to be "Ovalled" i.e. the paper ticket fares brought fully in line with the contactless ones and single fare priced with standardised time restrictions per the TfL ones. It's only not happened because this is an earlier part of the contactless rollout. All the new Oval rollouts seem to be doing this.

Yet that will lead to a significant price increase for people travelling on paper tickets.
Idk about the WCML or Thameslink but the Anytime fares on the GWML are very expensive it would be an overnight doubling of fares via the back door if you harmonised the restrictions, which is grossly unfair

I know the restrictions aren't the easiest, but most people understand that Elizabeth line is unrestricted Vs GWR expresses which are in the evening peak

 

[Starmill]

What that needs is to be "Ovalled" i.e. the paper ticket fares brought fully in line with the contactless ones and single fare priced with standardised time restrictions per the TfL ones. It's only not happened because this is an earlier part of the contactless rollout. All the new Oval rollouts seem to be doing this.

Seems fairly clear that's not something the government would countenance without extra increases though, because it's saving some journey types a substantial amount of money.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've spun off another thread to continue discussion of this specific issue:

Should fares to Reading and stations towards London be "Ovalled"

Yet that will lead to a significant price increase for people travelling on paper tickets. Idk about the WCML or Thameslink but the Anytime fares on the GWML are very expensive it would be an overnight doubling of fares via the back door if you harmonised the restrictions, which is grossly...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[JonathanH]

Fares from 7 September have been in the public domain for the last week. It looks like there is yet another hike due in the Thames Valley.

Looking at Reading to London Paddington in BRFares, the off-peak day return looks like it increases from £28.00 to £29.40, a 5% increase, and the off-peak day travelcard increases from £35.40 to £37.20, again 5%.

That is a 16.7% increase spread over four successive review points in the last year.

Is this happening anywhere else on the network?

 

[Sonic1234]

It looks like there is yet another hike due in the Thames Valley.

Was there any negative publicity last time? People abandoning rail in their droves? GWR stations blockaded by protests?

No?

Then why not do it again.

Unfortunately this is what the railway has become, how much can you gouge out of customers.

 

[Jimini]

Was there any negative publicity last time? People abandoning rail in their droves? GWR stations blockaded by protests?

No?

Then why not do it again.

Unfortunately this is what the railway has become, how much can you gouge out of customers.

I do hope you posted that with your tongue firmly placed in your cheek!

I suppose us Reading types are easy targets, but 16.7% YoY (as quoted above) is nothing short of disgraceful.

Why is this acceptable / allowed?

 

[Sonic1234]

but 16.7% YoY (as quoted above) is nothing short of disgraceful.

I agree fully. Not only is it a disgraceful fare hike, but also the clandestine way it's done sneaking it in mid-year away from the annual fare rise.

I assume as the fares are in the data now you can't even buy tickets now for future travel past 7th September at the current price?

 

[JonathanH]

I assume as the fares are in the data now you can't even buy tickets now for future travel past 7th September at the current price?

Usual four week window ahead of the fare change when fares become sold at the higher price.

 

[lnerazuma]

Fares from 7 September have been in the public domain for the last week. It looks like there is yet another hike due in the Thames Valley.

Looking at Reading to London Paddington in BRFares, the off-peak day return looks like it increases from £28.00 to £29.40, a 5% increase, and the off-peak day travelcard increases from £35.40 to £37.20, again 5%.

That is a 16.7% increase spread over four successive review points in the last year.

Is this happening anywhere else on the network?

As a occasional Reading mob I suggest we should initiate a culture of travelling together using the single leg oval fare for a group save. For example, during off peak hours, at 00/15/30/45 minutes past the hour, people travelling along the Paddington/Reading corridor could gather outside the Paddington ticket office adjacent to platform 1. A group of 3+ could then form to benefit from the group save discount, saving a whopping of £4 one way without any Railcard needed – more than the cost of a Sainsbury's meal deal.

If the ticket office is closed and the machine is not selling the relevant off peak ticket, simply take a picture of the closed ticket office and board any train. We could pay for our ticket at the first available opportunity according to NRCoT.

 

[yorksrob]

This Government had better get a grip on fares hikes, or else its flagship policy on rail will be seen as a failure. The politics and optics aren't looking good.

 

[cactustwirly]

Fares from 7 September have been in the public domain for the last week. It looks like there is yet another hike due in the Thames Valley.

Looking at Reading to London Paddington in BRFares, the off-peak day return looks like it increases from £28.00 to £29.40, a 5% increase, and the off-peak day travelcard increases from £35.40 to £37.20, again 5%.

That is a 16.7% increase spread over four successive review points in the last year.

Is this happening anywhere else on the network?

Ridiculous, it's expensive already!

I'm doing less trips to London because of the prohibitive cost of doing so

 

[redreni]

So what's going to happen if the current trend continues?

Is the Anytime fare the regulated one? Will those continue to increase in line with the RPI+x formula, while the off-peaks increase more quickly until they're the same as the Anytime? Or is fares regulation just not going to be respected any more, so all fares will just increase by whatever level officials in the nascent 'GBR-in-waiting' directorate of DfT feel they can get away with?

I'm trying to do a briefing for a couple of associations in Maidenhead who I'm hoping might write to the local MP expressing concerns about these increases and asking him to write to Lord Hendy. The response will be piffle, of course, but when you start getting associations of respectable people expressing concern then in my experience it can sometimes lead to at least a softening / slowing down of a policy. I want to get the facts right for the briefing.

I've done a table of a selection of fares to and from Maidenhead and the increases since the July to September fares period last year. I selected the journeys based on relevance to my intended audience (before I checked the fares), and looked at off-peak day return fares as that's what's most relevant for the type of leisure travel we do, so I haven't been cherry-picking.

Sure enough, increases range from 10% to 18% over the past year, with the most often used fares (Maidenhead to Didcot Parkway as part of a split when travelling further west and the off-peak day Travelcard as part of a split via London to destinations in the London commuter belt) having seem some of the biggest increases.

		Ticket type	Fares period	Fares period	Fares period	Fares period	Fares period		Fares period	Increase in last 12 months
From	To		From 7 September 2025	8 Jun 25 to 6 Sep 25	1 Apr 25 to 7 Jun 25	2 Mar 25 to 31 Mar 25	2 Jan 25 to 31 Mar 25	15 Sep 25 to 1 Jan 25	5 Jul 24 to 14 Sep 25	Percent
Maidenhead	London Paddington	Off-peak day return	£18.00	£17.20	£16.70	£16.00	£16.00	£15.60	£15.60	15.38%
Maidenhead	Travelcard Z1-6*	Off-peak day	£25.60	£24.40	£23.70	£23.70	£22.70	£22.70	£22.00	16.36%
Maidenhead	Zone 1	Off-peak day return	£24.00	£23.20	£22.70	£22.70	£22.00	£22.00	£21.60	10.00%
Maidenhead	Windsor	Off-peak day return	£7.00	£6.60	£6.50	£6.50	£6.20	£6.20	£6.20	11.42%
Maidenhead	Reading	Off-peak day return	£9.40	£9.40	£9.20	£9.20	£8.80	£8.80	£8.40	11.90%
Maidenhead	Boundary Zone 4	Off-peak day return	£11.80	£11.80	£10.90	£10.40	£10.40	£10.00	£10.00	18.00%
Maidenhead	Boundary Zone 6*	Off-peak day return	£8.20	£7.80	£7.70	£7.70	£7.40	£7.40	£7.40	10.81%
Maidenhead	Didcot Parkway	Off-peak day return	£19.70	£18.80	£18.30	£18.30	£17.50	£17.50	£16.90	16.56%

 

[Bletchleyite]

For journeys in the former Network SouthEast the Anytime Day Return (possibly also Single?) and season tickets are indeed the regulated fares (hence why they're more reasonable than intercity ones). Off peaks and similar are offered commercially.

Of course fare regulation is largely meaningless now.

 

[Hadders]

I think in this case the Anytime Day Return will be the Regulated Fare. Someone else will know for certain but I think near to London this it's to do with what is considered as the 'commuter fare'.

Elsewhere it's generally the Off Peak Return that's the Regulated Fare.

 

[redreni]

Thanks @Hadders and @Bletchleyite !

 

[JonathanH]

I think in this case the Anytime Day Return will be the Regulated Fare.

I think the anytime day return from Reading to London Paddington is increasing in September as well (£60.70 to £63.80), so not sure how that fits with regulation, which presumably only allows one increase a year?

 

[Haywain]

Or is fares regulation just not going to be respected any more,

Fares regulation is a myth now, as should be expected when the "regulator" is also the recipient of all fares revenue.