EMR intercity - As bad as xc?

[DarloRich]

EMR intercity - As bad as xc? Discuss.

The trains are crowded, far to short and getting quite tatty yet EMR seem to escape the criticism fired at XC for the same things.

How come?

Today I have to use EMR to get to Nottingham and the trains are rammed packed

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Will only get worse until the 810s are ready.
Lumo and ScotRail want their 222s

 

[Timmyd]

I agree, they’re the pits. When you contrast with a few years ago when it was HSTs the deterioration is really shocking. I always drive to Nottingham now, reluctantly, or go via Grantham

 

[Ash Bridge]

After two recent journeys both on EMR class 222 IC trains I can only agree with most above comments, both trains were absolutely filthy internally. I must just add though that both were punctual and the onboard crew were very good indeed!

 

[Randomer]

Arguably EMR get less attention because as dire as they might be currently there is a plan to do something about it (the 810's) which unfortunately has gone wrong. Will it probably still go further wrong, yes but at least some glimmer of hope exists.

CrossCountry has been under capacity for years, shows no signs of getting better and seems to for whatever reason be actively trying to sabotage the capacity it does run (not paying / not recruiting catering grades required to run two sets coupled.) CrossCountry isn't even looking at new rolling stock, is likely to be split up as part of GBR regionalisation and arguably hasn't had enough capacity since when the 220/221 fleet was introduced.

 

[tram21]

The trains- not the best but could be worse.

The onboard crews- always amazing and a joy to travel with.

Punctuality- unless there's disruption, where there service collapses, normally pretty good.

Overall, there's definitely far worse on the network. I may be saying differently after travelling next Sunday with both Euston & Kings Cross basically closed leaving EMR the only option!

 

[sh24]

Timekeeping generally is much better than XC (only 1 delay repay in the last 6 months and that was an NR issue). The 222 are more comfortable in both classes too. On board hosts in First are generally top notch and highly visible with no "guess the food I have" games that XC seem to delight in. Fares a lot more reasonable. Loadings generally much less intense. I've not had to share a table in First in the last 6 months.

Yes the trains are getting a bit tired but overall they are a far better operator. I say that as a current weekly EMR Intercity user.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

The biggest annoyance for me on EMR Intercity is the excessive amount of first class accommodation; 1.5 carriages on a 5 car Meridian and a whopping 3 carriages on a 7 car. I'm fortunate that I usually board at Sheffield as once you get to Derby standard class is rammed. Hopefully the new trains, should they ever enter service, will have a greater proportion of standard class seating.

 

[williamn]

The biggest annoyance for me on EMR Intercity is the excessive amount of first class accommodation; 1.5 carriages on a 5 car Meridian and a whopping 3 carriages on a 7 car. I'm fortunate that I usually board at Sheffield as once you get to Derby standard class is rammed. Hopefully the new trains, should they ever enter service, will have a greater proportion of standard class seating.

Though on both journeys I recently took first was pretty much full, so there’s clearly demand for it.

 

[Tetchytyke]

On board hosts in First are generally top notch and highly visible with no "guess the food I have" games that XC seem to delight in.

Agree about the staff, but actual the EMR first class catering offer is particularly poor.

 

[williamn]

Agree about the staff, but actual the EMR first class catering offer is particularly poor.

Pretty much the same as GWR. Found it rather odd they did a run of drinks and sweet snacks first and then 30 mins later sandwiches.

Also chicken sandwiches as a ‘breakfast offer’ was quite weird.

 

[P156KWJ]

The intercity services are particularly poor even compared to a couple of years ago, yet advance fares seem higher than ever. Most of the 222s consistently have technical issues, whether that be engines shut down, air conditioning inoperative, blown double glazing... it isn't a nice place for passengers at all anymore. And I'm not convinced a new fleet will solve the problem, as no doubt there will still be capacity issues.

In the meantime though, it is likely to get worse before it gets better, as 222s end up cascaded elsewhere.

 

[Gwr12345]

I took EMR intercity for a week last month, and 3 out of the 6 southbound trains were full and standing, and I had to sit on the floor next to the toilet twice. Currently waiting for my seat reservation compensation from EMR

 

[duffield]

The biggest annoyance for me on EMR Intercity is the excessive amount of first class accommodation; 1.5 carriages on a 5 car Meridian and a whopping 3 carriages on a 7 car. I'm fortunate that I usually board at Sheffield as once you get to Derby standard class is rammed. Hopefully the new trains, should they ever enter service, will have a greater proportion of standard class seating.

The part of the third 1st class coach nearest to standard on the 7 car units is permanently declassified (window stickers removed) although a lot of people don't realise this and I don't think EMR tend to publicise it. The train crew do enforce it and make sure the declassified section don't get complimentaries.

 

[Merle Haggard]

The part of the third 1st class coach nearest to standard on the 7 car units is permanently declassified (window stickers removed) although a lot of people don't realise this and I don't think EMR tend to publicise it. The train crew do enforce it and make sure the declassified section don't get complimentaries.

On EMR 222s, don't rely on no first class window sticker meaning that that area is declassified! There's a lot of windows in first class with no label (presumably when steamed-up ones have been replaced) , and the coaches that are used as the MC in 222103/4 don't have any labels at all.
Best indicator of first class is if the triangular menu card is on the table.

 

[Acfb]

I haven't been on EMR so I can't really comment based on personal experience. An acquaintance was travelling on EMR from St Pancras to Nottingham a few days ago and unfortunately had a track fatality around Kettering and the driver for that service didn't want to continue afterwards so was delayed over 2 hours. He otherwise hasn't seemed to have many criticisms of EMR going to/from Nottingham though.

I think EMR also got a lot of bad publicity the time Martin Lewis was travelling on the train up to Sheffield and his train was completely overloaded due to ECML engineering works. That might have been a 5 car set instead of the normal 7.

 

[RailWonderer]

EMR intercity - As bad as xc? Discuss.

The trains are crowded, far to short and getting quite tatty yet EMR seem to escape the criticism fired at XC for the same things.

How come?

Today I have to use EMR to get to Nottingham and the trains are rammed packed

It's understood this is temporary until the 810s arrive, but XC's short forming and tattiness seems permanent.

 

[sjoh]

I haven't been on EMR so I can't really comment based on personal experience. An acquaintance was travelling on EMR from St Pancras to Nottingham a few days ago and unfortunately had a track fatality around Kettering and the driver for that service didn't want to continue afterwards so was delayed over 2 hours. He otherwise hasn't seemed to have many criticisms of EMR going to/from Nottingham though.

Would be particularly poor taste to blame EMR for that anyway...

 

[thenorthern]

When Midland Mainline won the franchise in 1996 they really improved the London to East Midlands/Sheffield services by refurbishing the old fleet and introducing new stock. They also introduced passenger comforts such as Free tea and coffee.

The problem is in the 18 years since Midland Mainline disappeared the services to the East Midlands haven't really improved much. Sure there is now the half hourly service to Sheffield but the extensions which existed in the early 2000s to Burton-on-Trent, Matlock, Barnsley, Leeds and York have now gone. So has the fast Sheffield to London via Alfreton and the Erewash Valley. (I am aware that is partially down to the HSTs being withdrawn and the SRA).

Maybe it was a bad idea in 2007 to combine the Midland Mainline intercity with the Central Trains local services who knows.

 

[duffield]

My impression is that EMR was OK-ish (pretty reliable, rarely approaching the worst Cross Country overcrowding) until about years ago, when the 222s really started to show their age and now they seem to be falling off a cliff. But they were supposed to be gone years ago, of course.

 

[dk1]

It’s often been a bit of Cinderella even in Intercity days. Hopefully the 810s will change its fortunes but there’s plenty more pain until we get that gain.

 

[MCR247]

It's understood this is temporary until the 810s arrive, but XC's short forming and tattiness seems permanent.

While I hope the future will prove me wrong, I’m not convinced that all of the MMLs problems are temporary. Yes, the 810s should be less tatty and more reliable (although all new stock needs time to bed down and the time pressures on releasing 222s definitely isn’t ideal). I think each 810 has a third extra capacity compared to a 5 car 222, which is certainly something and should help reduce overcrowding, but if there is any ‘new trains effect’ then that extra capacity will be mostly gone.

 

[kevjs]

From a Nottingham perspective as someone travelling on (Super) Off Peak tickets usually...

Cross Country has been overcrowded for the best part of two decades with no sign of any improvement coming - often on trains with similar (or even lower) capacity as the EMR regional trains which are also often approaching full.

EMR yeah it's getting a bit tatty, but you can still find a decent number of free seats on plenty of services, and new trains are on the way.

One potential incoming issue if/when the new trains arrive is the "Eurostar problem" - how on earth will St Pancras cope with any uptick in passengers on the busy trains?

IIRC the incoming 5 cars have the same capacity as a 7 car Meridian so a notable uptick in capacity and passengers, especially if we get 2 ten cars leaving in close proximity to each other.

 

[dk1]

Why does the word ‘tatty’ keep coming up? I thought the 222s had had those very poor condition EMT red seat covers replaced with new grey ones and that the 360 refurb will start soon.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Why does the word ‘tatty’ keep coming up? I thought the 222s had had those very poor condition EMT red seat covers replaced with new grey ones and that the 360 refurb will start soon.

It's been covered on another thread.

A general impression of poor attention to details; steamed up windows, broken vestibule door opening buttons not repaired (but a label in corporate colours telling you that); broken soap dispensers in lavatories; lavatories locked out of order; air-conditioning not working; cars with engines switched off.

360s still failing a lot. "soon' promised since they arrived.

 

[dk1]

It's been covered on another thread.

A general impression of poor attention to details; steamed up windows, broken vestibule door opening buttons not repaired (but a label in corporate colours telling you that); broken soap dispensers in lavatories; lavatories locked out of order; air-conditioning not working; cars with engines switched off.

360s still failing a lot. "soon' promised since they arrived.

That’s all such a shame and a world away from TUKs GA franchise. I thought the new was plants and Etches Park’s reconstruction would improve things.

 

[Merle Haggard]

That’s all such a shame and a world away from TUKs GA franchise. I thought the new wash plants and Etches Park’s reconstruction would improve things.

A past criticism was windows always covered in dirt but, as you mention it, that seems to have been solved.

 

[thenorthern]

All of this boils down to one thing really. The Government, the Conservative Party, the Labour Party but most of all the EU all seem to hate the East Midlands.

Why does the word ‘tatty’ keep coming up? I thought the 222s had had those very poor condition EMT red seat covers replaced with new grey ones and that the 360 refurb will start soon.

The Class 360s and the Corby branch are a bit of a strange one. On paper it looks like the Government has spent a lot of money on the East Midlands by electfying a line and doubling the amount of services to London and providing more seats. In reality though it's only helped a small part of the edge of the East Midlands in what is the second smallest county by population in the region (smallest is of course Rutland). Dare I say it as well many people in Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire would not consider Northamptonshire to be the "East Midlands".

 

[duffield]

A past criticism was windows always covered in dirt but, as you mention it, that seems to have been solved.

I think that was due to the mechanised train wash facility being broken for a long time - presumably, it was fixed eventually although I don't remember it being mentioned here.

 

[SirAlf]

Use EMR a lot, leisure traveller. I always reserve a seat, the reservations are rarely displayed. I must have heard the excuse “computer problem, so seat reservations haven’t been downloaded” about a hundred times. If they can’t fix the apparently permanent computer problem then why do they continue to offer seat reservations in the first place?

And as for being as bad as XC, seat reservations is one thing that XC get right