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I’ve always find it somewhat frustrating that in some journeys it costs more if I do a direct journey compared to splitting it up ( yet I stay on the same train ).
For example if I put in a direct return journey from London Liverpool Street to Norwich with a network rail card it will cost me £72:20 , yet if I break the journey up and do Liverpool Street to manningtree then manningtree to Norwich it costs £57.85 for the exact same journey on the exact same train
I’ve always find it somewhat frustrating that in some journeys it costs more if I do a direct journey compared to splitting it up ( yet I stay on the same train ).
For example if I put in a direct return journey from London Liverpool Street to Norwich with a network rail card it will cost me £72:20 , yet if I break the journey up and do Liverpool Street to manningtree then manningtree to Norwich it costs £57.85 for the exact same journey on the exact same train
It's been a quirk in the fares system for decades, with a complex history.
If you book tickets through the forum's website, TrainPal, ScotRail, Trainline - they will often find the splits for you. The forum's website is very good at it.
It's been a quirk in the fares system for decades, with a complex history.
If you book tickets through the forum's website, TrainPal, ScotRail, Trainline - they will often find the splits for you. The forum's website is very good at it.
The Railcard discount applies to the ticket, not the journey.
The journey can be made by using one or more tickets.
The Railcard discount can't be applied to a single ticket covering the whole journey in this scenario because the Railcard wouldn't be valid to the destination.
The Railcard can be applied to a ticket valid up to the Network Railcard boundary though, and another ticket purchased from that boundary to the destination.
It's not an intuitive or customer friendly system, but this is how it works at the moment.
The Railcard discount applies to the ticket, not the journey.
The journey can be made by using one or more tickets.
The Railcard discount can't be applied to a single ticket covering the whole journey in this scenario because the Railcard wouldn't be valid to the destination.
The Railcard can be applied to a ticket valid up to the Network Railcard boundary though, and another ticket purchased from that boundary to the destination.
It's not an intuitive or customer friendly system, but this is how it works at the moment.
Train companies generally take the view that they offer a price for a given journey, some of which attract a premium, and that's that. Take it or leave it. They are propped up by hefty subsidies and - at the times most people want to travel - trains are generally very busy and there isn't enough cash to increase capacity to match potential demand.
Some people pay the premium = a win for the company, the DfT and passengers as the railway got more money.
Some people don't take the train; either use another mode or simply don't make the journey. This is considered a win because there isn't enough money to pay for the capacity upgrades that would be needed to accommodate all potential rail travellers.
However, some people are savvy and use websites such as the forum's site. This brings some additional income, from people who otherwise wouldn't travel, but without preventing those willing to pay premium fares from doing so. As not everyone uses such sites, trains aren't too crowded.
The system isn't going to change any time soon, as there are no plans to stop pricing people off the railways or to provide sufficient capacity for all potential rail users if all fares were good value.
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The pricing is very much market-based; longer distance journeys are often charged at a premium, and there are typically a good enough number people prepared to pay the premium, alongside savvy people using sites such as our site, or people with loads of spare time who do their own manual calculations, without there being too many for the trains to cope.
Railcards aside, sometimes it's a quirk of the fare boundaries between certain sections of line. Eg for a trip earlier this month, the split tickets did a Southampton-Pinhoe return and Pinhoe-Exter singles, which despite being a difference of about five miles and Exeter being in the NR area, clearly made a difference compared to through tickets. Similarly, a ride to York or Edinburgh will split the tickets at Grantham for...reasons.
What's bizarre is that when a ticket from A to B is priced at £ X and from B to C at £ Y, the ticket from A to C (changing at B) isn't priced as £ X + Y. Instead it's separately priced, often lower. Hence split ticketing. That's even before you get onto differing restrictions and discounts.
What's bizarre is that when a ticket from A to B is priced at £ X and from B to C at £ Y, the ticket from A to C (changing at B) isn't priced as £ X + Y. Instead it's separately priced, often lower. Hence split ticketing. That's even before you get onto differing restrictions and discounts.
Medium distance journeys are often deliberately priced at a premium, compared to short distance journeys, especially if they are on expensive TOCs such as CrossCountry.
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Railcards aside, sometimes it's a quirk of the fare boundaries between certain sections of line. Eg for a trip earlier this month, the split tickets did a Southampton-Pinhoe return and Pinhoe-Exter singles, which despite being a difference of about five miles and Exeter being in the NR area, clearly made a difference compared to through tickets. Similarly, a ride to York or Edinburgh will split the tickets at Grantham for...reasons.
Yes, Pinhoe and Grantham are among hundreds of locations where splits are checked on the forum's ticketing site.
Very occasionally, someone will do their own calculations and find something the forum site doesn't; when this happens, the fix is often made in as little as a day.
What's bizarre is that when a ticket from A to B is priced at £ X and from B to C at £ Y, the ticket from A to C (changing at B) isn't priced as £ X + Y. Instead it's separately priced, often lower. Hence split ticketing. That's even before you get onto differing restrictions and discounts.
I don't think the Pinhoe split issue is as bizarre as you suggest. This is down to fare clusters. Pinhoe is the last station in the Honiton cluster, with the stations in Exeter forming the next cluster along the line. However, the local fares to Exeter obviously step up between Pinhoe and Honiton, so splitting at Pinhoe can offer a cheaper fare. If Pinhoe was moved into the Exeter cluster, then the fare from Southampton to Pinhoe would become more expensive.
Having clustered fares is generally good for the passenger, and saves the pricing teams having to set individual fares between each and every station.
Yes and no. It means they may be able to buy a ticket for a slightly longer journey (e.g. Irlam to London vs Warrington to London) without paying extra. But given that a Warrington to London ticket isn't valid from Irlam despite the price being the same (unless you go via Manchester both ways), it doesn't actually provide additional flexibility once the ticket has been bought.
If tickets were issued to zonal destinations (e.g. a "Warrington Zone 1" incorporating both of the above stations) then I would agree more.
With modern levels of computing power and storage, that's not really a justification for clustering. Indeed whilst researching examples for the above I found that Avanti have de-clustered many of their fares, with places like Manchester Stations, Stockport, Wigan, Preston, Chester and Liverpool all having point to point fares instead. That definitely wasn't the case a few years ago!
Very occasionally, someone will do their own calculations and find something the forum site doesn't; when this happens, the fix is often made in as little as a day.
I can certainly attest to the truth of that from my recent experiences. If anyone does think they've found something cheaper for the same journey than Trainsplit they should consider making a new thread or contacting them directly at customer.support@trainsplit.com.
I save literally thousands of pounds each year by splitting my tickets.
About once a month, I travel from Cardiff to Edinburgh and back, to visit friends. A simple 1st class return ticket between those two places at the times I want to travel is £820: by splitting at Crewe, and travelling on exactly the same trains, the fare is £403.
My preferred route is via Bristol Parkway and Birmingham New Street, which is faster and more comfortable, and with a better onboard service, than travelling with Crosscountry all the way. It also means I avoid TFW's dreadful trains.
Lol. This is the rail industry, which like the energy industry, is mostly comprised of dinosaur organisations that have a "we've always done it that way" mentality. Disruptives, such as Seatfrog (and Octopus in the energy world) are few and far between.
A quick peek in the forum's Disputes section will show you that the industry has nothing but scorn for its customers - we seem to be a cohort of fare- dodging criminals intent on disturbing the industry's efforts to play with its train set.
The most depressing thing about the current faux renationalisation is that any hints of modernity will be killed off by the dinosaurs and incompetent civil servants. Great times ahead!
Lol. This is the rail industry, which like the energy industry, is mostly comprised of dinosaur organisations that have a "we've always done it that way" mentality. Disruptives, such as Seatfrog (and Octopus in the energy world) are few and far between.
A quick peek in the forum's Disputes section will show you that the industry has nothing but scorn for its customers - we seem to be a cohort of fare- dodging criminals intent on disturbing the industry's efforts to play with its train set.
The most depressing thing about the current faux renationalisation is that any hints of modernity will be killed off by the dinosaurs and incompetent civil servants. Great times ahead!
I would make a distinction between the private sector and the public sector.
Yes left to their own devices the government probably wouldn't innovate much on the ticketing front. But the private sector retailers, such as Trainline, despite the hate they get, have developed a whole host of ticketing, planning, railcard features which are popular with customers.
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
