Porterbrook Class 150 gifted to Mid Hants Railway.

[satisnek]

Good look with the EVR, they’ve completely kicked DMUs to the wayside for in favour of (industrial) steam hauled, coach trip fed services as they’re apparently what people want. I’d beg to differ but there you go, and that’s first gen’s so there’d likely be no chance of a Sprinter.

I think that the EVR's main problem is the simple issue of space, so they're forced to prioritise what 'sells'.

 

[43055]

Good look with the EVR, they’ve completely kicked DMUs to the wayside for in favour of (industrial) steam hauled, coach trip fed services as they’re apparently what people want. I’d beg to differ but there you go, and that’s first gen’s so there’d likely be no chance of a Sprinter.

DMU's have a place but the money is in catering and coach trips and that is what the numbers say. 55006 has proven very useful for the market train and incline services on the first Saturday of each month. For the main service a typical day the first trip with no catering will be around a third of the number of people when catering is on for the two afternoon trips. Last Saturday it was so busy we added a sixth coach to the rake as I believe some were combining a trip to the railway with the Greatest Gathering. I would very much doubt we would of got those sort of numbers if a diesel was used.

I think that the EVR's main problem is the simple issue of space, so they're forced to prioritise what 'sells'.

Yes now some of the DMU's have left there is a lot more room in the yard at Wirksworth.

 

[m79900]

DMU's have a place but the money is in catering and coach trips and that is what the numbers say. 55006 has proven very useful for the market train and incline services on the first Saturday of each month. For the main service a typical day the first trip with no catering will be around a third of the number of people when catering is on for the two afternoon trips. Last Saturday it was so busy we added a sixth coach to the rake as I believe some were combining a trip to the railway with the Greatest Gathering. I would very much doubt we would of got those sort of numbers if a diesel was used.

Yes now some of the DMU's have left there is a lot more room in the yard at Wirksworth.

Would it be possible to reinstate the exchange sidings on the way to Ravenstor? It’s be a way for a bit of extra space. Also, the trackbed of the line into the quarry loader is currently for sale, so that’d be conceivable as sidings if you were desperate. Obviously, it all costs money though so it’s understandable if not.

 

[43055]

Would it be possible to reinstate the exchange sidings on the way to Ravenstor? It’s be a way for a bit of extra space. Also, the trackbed of the line into the quarry loader is currently for sale, so that’d be conceivable as sidings if you were desperate. Obviously, it all costs money though so it’s understandable if not.

Whilst there is probably enough room, there maybe a question about stabling on a steep incline these days and other projects going on which will benefit the railway more like finishing the station building at Wirksworth.

 

[m79900]

Whilst there is probably enough room, there maybe a question about stabling on a steep incline these days and other projects going on which will benefit the railway more like finishing the station building at Wirksworth.

Understandable. Sorry for going off topic!

 

[Bishopstone]

If ever the Mid Hants re-consider a commuter service, feeding into GBR at Alton, they now have a suitable piece of rolling stock. Surely an excited Go-op have already picked up the phone?

 

[UP13]

If ever the Mid Hants re-consider a commuter service, feeding into GBR at Alton, they now have a suitable piece of rolling stock. Surely an excited Go-op have already picked up the phone?

Never going to happen.

 

[Class450/4DES]

If ever the Mid Hants re-consider a commuter service, feeding into GBR at Alton, they now have a suitable piece of rolling stock. Surely an excited Go-op have already picked up the phone?

Go-op tried before on the MHR with a 139, but it never happened and I doubt the MHR will use 150231 on "public services", especially if Stagecoach South's route 64 follows the same route between Alresford and Alton.

 

[Dunfanaghy Rd]

If ever the Mid Hants re-consider a commuter service, feeding into GBR at Alton, they now have a suitable piece of rolling stock. Surely an excited Go-op have already picked up the phone?

No chance. The 64 bus takes 30 minutes from Alresford to Alton, the MHR timetable is 39 minutes. The buses take bus passes, the train won't. Exactly the same problem as running Swanage to Wareham, but the dreamers still dream on.
Pat

 

[43096]

No chance. The 64 bus takes 30 minutes from Alresford to Alton, the MHR timetable is 39 minutes. The buses take bus passes, the train won't. Exactly the same problem as running Swanage to Wareham, but the dreamers still dream on.
Pat

The problem is actually slightly different, in that Alresford to Alton doesn’t require any running over NR infrastructure, which is a big element of the problem (cost) with Swanage to Wareham. It still doesn’t mean Alresford to Alton is going to happen, though!

 

[duffield]

No chance. The 64 bus takes 30 minutes from Alresford to Alton, the MHR timetable is 39 minutes. The buses take bus passes, the train won't. Exactly the same problem as running Swanage to Wareham, but the dreamers still dream on.
Pat

It's still not going to happen but if you were running a commuter service I think you could halve that journey time. Running with nippy modern rolling stock (so no door locking issues), no proper road level crossings to consider (no expensive upgrades needed), with all the signalling switched out so running as a long siding like the Matlock branch (so no TPWS needed) should tick the ORR boxes for running above 25mph; of course there's no guarantee that the actual track supports higher speeds but there's a good chance a modest increase to 35-40mph could be easily achieved.

All fantasy stuff anyhow, but I don't think the 39 minute heritage journey time is the biggest obstacle.

 

[williamn]

Not saying that this makes it viable but always worth remembering that there are folks who will NEVER consider a bus but who are very happy to take a train.

 

[fgwrich]

It's still not going to happen but if you were running a commuter service I think you could halve that journey time. Running with nippy modern rolling stock (so no door locking issues), no proper road level crossings to consider (no expensive upgrades needed), with all the signalling switched out so running as a long siding like the Matlock branch (so no TPWS needed) should tick the ORR boxes for running above 25mph; of course there's no guarantee that the actual track supports higher speeds but there's a good chance a modest increase to 35-40mph could be easily achieved.

All fantasy stuff anyhow, but I don't think the 39 minute heritage journey time is the biggest obstacle.

Whilst in theory it is possible, it’ll never happen due to Insurance.

If, the MHR were to consider running a day to day commuter service, then they would have to change from having insurance that covers operating as a Light Railway and Museum to one that would cater for providing commuter services. And this is the expensive catch.

 

[duffield]

Whilst in theory it is possible, it’ll never happen due to Insurance.

If, the MHR were to consider running a day to day commuter service, then they would have to change from having insurance that covers operating as a Light Railway and Museum to one that would cater for providing commuter services. And this is the expensive catch.

In this theoretical situation I would imagine an open access operator or GBR running the service and paying a track access charge to the MHR; I think that would be the only practical way to do it from such points of view as staffing and insurance. The line would switch from commuter to heritage operation for weekends and bank holidays.

 

[UP13]

I think the people who seriously suggest commuter services on heritage lines forget that there was a reason that these lines closed down in the first place...

 

[duffield]

I think the people who seriously suggest commuter services on heritage lines forget that there was a reason that these lines closed down in the first place...

Not saying it applies in this case, but some areas have experienced large population growth or have plans for significant new housing developments, so the fact that a line closed 60 years ago doesn't automatically mean it wouldn't be viable today. I expect EWR to be a success; other reopenings have exceeded forecasts. Or couse there were a lot of lines that ran through a load of nowhere basically, but I'd say maybe 10% of the lines that closed in the 1960s/70s would be doing fine if they had survived a few more decades.

 

[KevinBrum12]

But I'm one of those who do agree that 150 001 should enter the national collection - but not as a static NRM exhibit. The most obvious host would be the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway (look up 'Wirksworth Phoenix') or failing that, Peak Rail (the Matlock branch being an early 150 route). Alternatively, the Severn Valley Railway, where it was a common sight on the other side of the fence for two decades!

I agree and I think one or two of the 150/1's would be appropriate for the SVR - I think the earliest use of 150/1's in the West Midlands was when British Rail Provincial introduced them to a Birmingham - Cardiff Service that was routed via Stourbridge Junction and Kidderminster rather than the Lickey.

I also remember they were used for the transition from Heritage DMU's to second generation on the Snow Hill and Chase Lines in the early 1990's. When it reopened in 1987, the services into Snow Hill were still using some of the DMU classes like the 116's that operated the commuter trains into Snow Hill in the 1960's before the old GWR stations rundown. Having the 150's compared to those was a transformation.

As for the lack of a forward view, you could get round that by fitting a camera in each driving cab and monitors to the bulkheads of the units. As well as giving the forward view like the heritage DMU's, with these additions it could also be used for route and track inspection for the PW teams and part of the driver training programme for volunteer drivers.

Finally and dare I suggest it as a possible means of running a Kidderminster - Bewdley connecting service for commuters? Much more suitable than a Parry People Mover that had been suggested before (possibly in a TOC franchise bid)!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Aug 2025 ==

I think the people who seriously suggest commuter services on heritage lines forget that there was a reason that these lines closed down in the first place...

That is true of the more rural lines, but population patterns have changed and there are plenty of people who live in the likes of Oxenhope, Medstead & Four Marks and Bewdley who'd think nothing of getting in their car and driving to a railhead. Indeed, that was the thinking behind some of the closures. There wasn't bus services to railheads, if there were they've gone and some people would never use buses at all. The "On The Buses" sitcom image of the 1970's (when the likes of Swanage closed) for bus services persisted into the 1980's and 1990's. Which is why the West Midlands has a thriving regional rail network which Sprinterisation sowed the seeds for, but the Midland Red bus network into Birmingham has disappeared. For a 1992 commuter what would you rather travel from Kidderminster to Birmingham in, a train operated by a 150 or a clapped out Midland Red West Leyland National? (Apologies to those commuters in the North who had to endure their daily commute in a Leyland National based Pacer until 2020).

Indeed, it is to their credit that the British Rail Sectors had smartened up their image in the 1990's while the bus industry was in freefall in terms of quality. If the 1970's BR culture had persisted into the 1990's the rail network would have ended up much smaller and the congestion we have would have been even worse. The Sprinters and 165/166's were as much part of the rail renaissance as the InterCity 125's. For that, there should be a place in preservation.

 

[sad1e]

Anyone know the location of the 150 currently, is it still at litchurch lane or has it been transported back to the Mid Hants yet ?

 

[Ash Bridge]

I’m guessing that is most likely, the representative we spoke to from the MHR said it was possibly going to travel from Derby to Alton under its own power as it is currently still mainline certified, obviously I can’t guarantee the accuracy of what we were told though.

 

[5562]

Their website says it will arrive at the end of the summer holidays for operational induction and training and enter service later in the year.

 

[StephenHunter]

Not saying that this makes it viable but always worth remembering that there are folks who will NEVER consider a bus but who are very happy to take a train.

Well, I can walk around on a train and in much of the country, the bus service is dire.

 

[satisnek]

As for the lack of a forward view, you could get round that by fitting a camera in each driving cab and monitors to the bulkheads of the units. As well as giving the forward view like the heritage DMU's, with these additions it could also be used for route and track inspection for the PW teams and part of the driver training programme for volunteer drivers.

Funny you should mention that... I can remember Central Trains fitting TV screens in the passenger areas with loudspeakers attached to the underside of luggage racks. Mainly a 323 thing but a couple (?) of 150s were also treated. Thankfully it wasn't a success and I don't think the kit in the 150s was ever used.

Suffice to say that this equipment is long gone.

 

[rmHawk765]

Hopefully this sets a precedent for the other rolling stock companies to think about preserving trains some of their older stock. Just think about all of the EMUs that were wiped out during COVID.

The way they just casually scrapped all the 365s not leaving a single functioning one behind is ridiculous in my opinion.

 

[Invincible]

The way they just casually scrapped all the 365s not leaving a single functioning one behind is ridiculous in my opinion.

There is one 365 unit preserved at the East Kent Railway
From the website

Eythorne is an idyllic countryside station in the centre of a beautiful village. This is where you will find the Class 365 Electric Train, which is being retrofitted to become a one-off, special restaurant. 3 Coaches recently retired from mainline service on which you’ll be able to eat, drink and book for private functions.

 

[frankmoh]

There is one 365 unit preserved at the East Kent Railway
From the website

It's getting turned into a restaurant. Barely preserving the train "as it was".

 

[rmHawk765]

There is one 365 unit preserved at the East Kent Railway
From the website

Except it's various coaches bodged together, not really a full set, so I doubt you could feasibly even mobilise it.

 

[Invincible]

Except it's various coaches bodged together, not really a full set, so I doubt you could feasibly even mobilise it.

The Heritage railways will find the diesel powered multiple units easier to mobilise.
Some may be interested in the 166/165 diesel Networker trains when available.

Porterbrook are trying to get a non diesel 455 unit preserved, but the diesel powered 150s equivalent will be easier to preserve.

 

[frankmoh]

Do train doors and lights still work when an EMU is hauled by a loco?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Do train doors and lights still work when an EMU is hauled by a loco?

Not without a number of extra steps. Several Southern Region EMUs were able to have the on board lighting and heating powered by a compatible locomotive (such as a 73 or 33) but those obviously didn't have power doors. It may be technically possible to engineer a solution to allow a more modern EMU to operate in this way, but this hasn't been done previously. It's a big ask for a heritage railway to do all the leg-work to make this happen.

 

[Class15]

The 390 on the ‘Creighton-Ward Explorer’ had everything working from the 57.